Reading in county third grade classrooms is a three-alarm fire going unanswered

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if parents are responsible for teaching their kids to read, then what is the point of school?

You do realize that kids learn others skills over the course of K-12 besides the basics of reading?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if parents are responsible for teaching their kids to read, then what is the point of school?

You do realize that kids learn others skills over the course of K-12 besides the basics of reading?

DP

Sure, but this thread is primarily focused on K-3 instruction, right?

And you can’t really excel in school if you can’t *read*.

So, if reading instruction isn’t working in mcps…one of the best resourced school districts with a history of achievement (albeit in the past)…then it seems fair to ask, “What are they doing if they aren’t doing this?” And, “if they expect parents to teach kids to read, then perhaps they should explicitly tell us that.”

#BeBetter,MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are for social learning
Tutors and home is for academics

How come private schools can teach more effectively than public schools when it comes to K-3?

Will mcps please hire a consultant to propose changes to the curriculum that will allow public schools to challenge and equip students the way catholic schools do?

Note: catholic schools arguably have far less funding and less trained teachers, yet students quickly learn to read, spell, understand grammar, write in cursive, etc. Heck, they even learn a foreign language! Class sizes at area catholic schools skyrocketed during the pandemic, so they know how to handle big classes. And ICYMI: bipoc families are scrambling to get into area privates as the mass exodus from mcps continues.

Don’t say “Catholic schools can expel troublemakers!”

We are talking about K-3, not middle school or MS13 high school.

I went to Catholic school in the 70s/80s…before adhd and medicated kids were a thing. We had a smattering of kids who definitely had behavior issues. Nonetheless, everyone learned.

Heck, at this point I’d support uniforms, desks in rows, and classrooms grouped by ability. Worth a shot, no? Pilot an old school curriculum and see what happens. Be sure to incorporate grammar (we had spelling workbooks that incorporated vocabulary and grammar). I bet the kids will outpace their counterparts.

Privates aren't 35%+ ESM students with the addition of students with behavioral issues. They won't even admit kids with behavioral issues. These situations are not comparable.

So you are saying the ESM students are negatively impacting everyone else?

Then shouldn’t those kids be in a different class?

We have these things called laws, written by politicians, assuming idyllic conditions. Not to mention research. These things find and suggest that EML students do best and acquire language faster when immersed in regular classrooms with the language. These things also indicate that special education students should be in the least restrictive classroom and are entitled to a full range of services in order to allow for access the curriculum and class.

Now, most teachers nor people have any problem with the above ideals, however each does require extra time, funds, and training, to make work properly.

You quoted a bit related to ESM…not ESL.

Different kids, different issues…right?

ICYMI: catholic schools in the inner city (think: Baltimore, South Side of Chicago, Compton, etc.) are largely catering to…wait for it…Latinos!!! They can somehow navigate the whole bilingual thing fairly well.)

But we are talking about ESM…different issues.

Maybe mcps needs to find a better solution *if* those kids are the reason why so many 3rd graders can’t read.

I’m not convinced a few kids with extreme emotional issues and behavioral outbursts are the reason why so many third graders can’t read. Another poster suggested it as the reason why even poorly resourced Catholic schools churn out better educated kids than mcps…arguably one of the best resourced districts on the planet.

What evidence do you have to prove that homeschooling or students Catholic schools produce better results? Like do the kids actually take the same reading tests as the kids in public school?

Homeschool families are extremely resistant to any kind of oversight or legislation and often pull their kids out of homeschool for the very reason of not wanting their children to be assessed. They claim that their kids are having superior outcomes but don't actually have any kind of data to really prove had to head that their kids are achieving more. It's just anecdotal data about kids going to college but guess what many Public school kids also go to college too. I'd like to see actual head to head data

Um???

You quoted me, but I never referenced homeschooling.

I focused on catholic schools.

Why?

Because my siblings and I went to Catholic schools. And while my own kids are currently in mcps, i have friends and family who teach in catholic schools as well as in mcps—and I know kids that have gone through both.

Here’s what I will say: the entrance tests for catholic schools are far more challenging than the mcps tests. We are currently prepping to pull our kids out of mcps and send them to catholic high school.

I will also say this: because of changes to curriculum, there are certain mcps tests that teachers have said are meaningless because students weren’t properly prepared (curriculum doesn’t cover content on the tests).

ICYMI: the original post provides data on how young students can’t read. If that doesn’t make you wonder about mcps, then let’s agree to disagree.

With one already in college (along with tons of friends from mcps and catholic schools), I can report the kids from catholic school are far better equipped for college. It’s the primary reason we are switching to catholic for our younger kids for HS. We never thought our straight A kid would struggle as much as they are…but the low bar in mcps (even at a “good” HS) is to blame.

There was another pp saying that reading teaching is easy because any mom or nun can teach it (I guess they missed the memo about how there are fewer women becoming nuns (https://abcnews.go.com/US/americas-nun-population-steep-decline/story?id=87426990) and most Catholic schools have lay staff non nuns.

Your evidence boils down to anecdotal evidence about how you and people you know had a good experience at Catholic school. It doesn't demonstrate that Catholic schools provide a better education

Go google the research.

Or find someone with kids in catholic school and compare notes. You’ll be shocked.

Or google the free practice tests catholic schools use for applicants and see how your kid does.

Bottom line: I guarantee that every kid in catholic school can read at an early age—even bipoc kids at catholic schools in the worst neighborhoods in Baltimore or Chicago.

And it’s not because the parents are supplementing or the schools cream and kick out underperforming kindergartners. As if! The entire point of catholic schools in low income areas is to raise the bar and provide a rigorous education at school precisely because they know they won’t get it at home. And they churn out well-educated students.

So you're too lazy to actually prove anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if parents are responsible for teaching their kids to read, then what is the point of school?

You do realize that kids learn others skills over the course of K-12 besides the basics of reading?

DP

Sure, but this thread is primarily focused on K-3 instruction, right?

And you can’t really excel in school if you can’t *read*.

So, if reading instruction isn’t working in mcps…one of the best resourced school districts with a history of achievement (albeit in the past)…then it seems fair to ask, “What are they doing if they aren’t doing this?” And, “if they expect parents to teach kids to read, then perhaps they should explicitly tell us that.”

#BeBetter,MCPS

Certain that learning to read is not the only skill taught in K-3. And no one said MCPS said parents should reach kids to read. Folks here indicated we thought it was strange that parents didn’t view teaching reading as primarily their responsibility/accountability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if parents are responsible for teaching their kids to read, then what is the point of school?

You do realize that kids learn others skills over the course of K-12 besides the basics of reading?

DP

Sure, but this thread is primarily focused on K-3 instruction, right?

And you can’t really excel in school if you can’t *read*.

So, if reading instruction isn’t working in mcps…one of the best resourced school districts with a history of achievement (albeit in the past)…then it seems fair to ask, “What are they doing if they aren’t doing this?” And, “if they expect parents to teach kids to read, then perhaps they should explicitly tell us that.”

#BeBetter,MCPS

Certain that learning to read is not the only skill taught in K-3. And no one said MCPS said parents should reach kids to read. Folks here indicated we thought it was strange that parents didn’t view teaching reading as primarily their responsibility/accountability.

I’ll admit I’ve been out of school myself for a long time, but that’s not how it used to be. We were primarily taught to read in school and practiced a few minutes each night reading to our parents. And reading instruction didn’t even start until 1st grade back then. Since times have seemingly changed, it would be nice if schools gave parents a heads up that it is primarily their responsibility to teach at home.

[Anonymous]

This entire thread is full of parents who “don’t remember their parents having to do this”…. Why have kids if you aren’t willing to help them? Our kids learned to read well before K. Are they suffering now bc kids can’t read in third grade? Absolutely. They are so bored while kids struggle with pronouncing “the” and kids who don’t comprehend what they are reading. Do better as parents. Don’t you want the best for your kid? Doesn’t it start and end at home? Stop expecting schools to do your job for you. Unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if parents are responsible for teaching their kids to read, then what is the point of school?

You do realize that kids learn others skills over the course of K-12 besides the basics of reading?

DP

Sure, but this thread is primarily focused on K-3 instruction, right?

And you can’t really excel in school if you can’t *read*.

So, if reading instruction isn’t working in mcps…one of the best resourced school districts with a history of achievement (albeit in the past)…then it seems fair to ask, “What are they doing if they aren’t doing this?” And, “if they expect parents to teach kids to read, then perhaps they should explicitly tell us that.”

#BeBetter,MCPS

Certain that learning to read is not the only skill taught in K-3. And no one said MCPS said parents should reach kids to read. Folks here indicated we thought it was strange that parents didn’t view teaching reading as primarily their responsibility/accountability.

I’ll admit I’ve been out of school myself for a long time, but that’s not how it used to be. We were primarily taught to read in school and practiced a few minutes each night reading to our parents. And reading instruction didn’t even start until 1st grade back then. Since times have seemingly changed, it would be nice if schools gave parents a heads up that it is primarily their responsibility to teach at home.

You need a “heads up” to do your job as a parent? Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This entire thread is full of parents who “don’t remember their parents having to do this”…. Why have kids if you aren’t willing to help them? Our kids learned to read well before K. Are they suffering now bc kids can’t read in third grade? Absolutely. They are so bored while kids struggle with pronouncing “the” and kids who don’t comprehend what they are reading. Do better as parents. Don’t you want the best for your kid? Doesn’t it start and end at home? Stop expecting schools to do your job for you. Unbelievable.

Well, the county's demographics were also different 30+ years ago. These days, struggling students take up 90% of the teacher time, and we have classrooms full of students who struggle with English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This entire thread is full of parents who “don’t remember their parents having to do this”…. Why have kids if you aren’t willing to help them? Our kids learned to read well before K. Are they suffering now bc kids can’t read in third grade? Absolutely. They are so bored while kids struggle with pronouncing “the” and kids who don’t comprehend what they are reading. Do better as parents. Don’t you want the best for your kid? Doesn’t it start and end at home? Stop expecting schools to do your job for you. Unbelievable.

So classic- teaching your kids ahead of time so they'll be ahead of everyone else and beyond their grade level, then complaining they are "bored" and not enriched enough at school. Stop complaining and enrich them at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if parents are responsible for teaching their kids to read, then what is the point of school?

You do realize that kids learn others skills over the course of K-12 besides the basics of reading?

DP

Sure, but this thread is primarily focused on K-3 instruction, right?

And you can’t really excel in school if you can’t *read*.

So, if reading instruction isn’t working in mcps…one of the best resourced school districts with a history of achievement (albeit in the past)…then it seems fair to ask, “What are they doing if they aren’t doing this?” And, “if they expect parents to teach kids to read, then perhaps they should explicitly tell us that.”

#BeBetter,MCPS

Certain that learning to read is not the only skill taught in K-3. And no one said MCPS said parents should reach kids to read. Folks here indicated we thought it was strange that parents didn’t view teaching reading as primarily their responsibility/accountability.

I’ll admit I’ve been out of school myself for a long time, but that’s not how it used to be. We were primarily taught to read in school and practiced a few minutes each night reading to our parents. And reading instruction didn’t even start until 1st grade back then. Since times have seemingly changed, it would be nice if schools gave parents a heads up that it is primarily their responsibility to teach at home.

You need a “heads up” to do your job as a parent? Good luck.

DP, but for me it is more that schools are no longer about education, but socialization and childcare. Parents are supposed to be the primary educators in the evening vs. the teachers they spend all day with. Some of you seem very comfortable with that setup, I find it disturbing.

[Anonymous]

I always laugh at the “parents should be responsible and accountable but MCPS shouldn’t be” crowd. They can’t see the blatant hypocrisy in their argument as they ferociously fight to argue that schools are under no obligation to thoroughly and effectively educate the students they purport to serve. Even though that mission is their entire reason for existing in the first grade place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if parents are responsible for teaching their kids to read, then what is the point of school?

You do realize that kids learn others skills over the course of K-12 besides the basics of reading?

DP

Sure, but this thread is primarily focused on K-3 instruction, right?

And you can’t really excel in school if you can’t *read*.

So, if reading instruction isn’t working in mcps…one of the best resourced school districts with a history of achievement (albeit in the past)…then it seems fair to ask, “What are they doing if they aren’t doing this?” And, “if they expect parents to teach kids to read, then perhaps they should explicitly tell us that.”

#BeBetter,MCPS

Certain that learning to read is not the only skill taught in K-3. And no one said MCPS said parents should reach kids to read. Folks here indicated we thought it was strange that parents didn’t view teaching reading as primarily their responsibility/accountability.

I’ll admit I’ve been out of school myself for a long time, but that’s not how it used to be. We were primarily taught to read in school and practiced a few minutes each night reading to our parents. And reading instruction didn’t even start until 1st grade back then. Since times have seemingly changed, it would be nice if schools gave parents a heads up that it is primarily their responsibility to teach at home.

You need a “heads up” to do your job as a parent? Good luck.

DP, but for me it is more that schools are no longer about education, but socialization and childcare. Parents are supposed to be the primary educators in the evening vs. the teachers they spend all day with. Some of you seem very comfortable with that setup, I find it disturbing.

Schools aren’t even good for socialization and childcare though. The children have zero manners or communication skills and they’re routinely left unsupervised and vulnerable to attack, assault and abuse by their peers. So education is failing on every front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always laugh at the “parents should be responsible and accountable but MCPS shouldn’t be” crowd. They can’t see the blatant hypocrisy in their argument as they ferociously fight to argue that schools are under no obligation to thoroughly and effectively educate the students they purport to serve. Even though that mission is their entire reason for existing in the first grade place.

Where did anyone say that? Where did anyone say MCPS shouldn’t improve? We said that parents aren’t removed from teaching the basic skill of reading. If your kid doesn’t know how to color when they enter K, MCPS will help them learn this skill or at least try. But, it doesn’t mean that I’m not side eyeing you wondering why you never put a crayon in their hand and taught them to use it. Similarly, if your kid gets to K not knowing the letter sounds, MCPS will teach them to your kid. But, again it why didn’t you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?pagetype=showrelease&id=1424

In 2004, mcps touted the fact that third graders led the pack in terms of the highest test scores—including in reading—and the most impressive progress was in low income schools with large Spanish-speaking populations.

So, what was different then? What curriculum were they using in the years leading up to those successful third graders who tested well in 2003/04?

This was under Jerry’s watch.

We didn’t have as many Latinos in 2004, but certain schools certainly did…and even those schools managed to teach kids to read.

What’s the difference? It’s not the students.

Is it the curriculum?

Teachers?

Social media?

Maga?

Who can we blame, and how can we fuel change?

You are insufferable... on every thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always laugh at the “parents should be responsible and accountable but MCPS shouldn’t be” crowd. They can’t see the blatant hypocrisy in their argument as they ferociously fight to argue that schools are under no obligation to thoroughly and effectively educate the students they purport to serve. Even though that mission is their entire reason for existing in the first grade place.

Where did anyone say that? Where did anyone say MCPS shouldn’t improve? We said that parents aren’t removed from teaching the basic skill of reading. If your kid doesn’t know how to color when they enter K, MCPS will help them learn this skill or at least try. But, it doesn’t mean that I’m not side eyeing you wondering why you never put a crayon in their hand and taught them to use it. Similarly, if your kid gets to K not knowing the letter sounds, MCPS will teach them to your kid. But, again it why didn’t you.

You or other posters are arguing that parents should bear the primary responsibility to teach their kids to read. No one is saying parents should be removed entirely, but there's a lot of space between support and being the primary teacher. I view support as reading to your kids, helping them with homework as needed (if they're assigned any), and having them read books/passages commiserate with their level to you.