is applying Test Optional to UVA arts and sciences disadvantageous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

Only 30% TO got in. Why handicap yourself ?wouldn't you want to be in the 70% since most of the 30% will be athletes and other hooks, first gen, URM.

That stat is enrolled students, not admitted. And it’s probably more like 40% given ACT/SAT submission overlap. And you’re making a lot of (racist) assumptions about who is and is not submitting test scores.

Finally, here’s a direct quote from Dean J on College Confidential: “UVA is test-optional and our application review was always more concerned with understanding students’ stories, told through courses and grades on transcripts, recommendations, essays, and activities. We are not (and were not) driven by test scores.”

Then just feel confident in your TO choice instead of trying to convince everyone.

I still have no idea why anyone would handicap themselves by not submitting—unless, of course, they didn’t score well.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I’m using data and quotes from a UVA admissions officer to counter the narrative that TO isn’t really TO. People should submit if they think their scores help them and not submit if they don’t. At UVA, at least, the admissions team has made clear that test scores are not central to their evaluation of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

Only 30% TO got in. Why handicap yourself ?wouldn't you want to be in the 70% since most of the 30% will be athletes and other hooks, first gen, URM.

That stat is enrolled students, not admitted. And it’s probably more like 40% given ACT/SAT submission overlap. And you’re making a lot of (racist) assumptions about who is and is not submitting test scores.

Finally, here’s a direct quote from Dean J on College Confidential: “UVA is test-optional and our application review was always more concerned with understanding students’ stories, told through courses and grades on transcripts, recommendations, essays, and activities. We are not (and were not) driven by test scores.”

Then just feel confident in your TO choice instead of trying to convince everyone.

I still have no idea why anyone would handicap themselves by not submitting—unless, of course, they didn’t score well.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I’m using data and quotes from a UVA admissions officer to counter the narrative that TO isn’t really TO. People should submit if they think their scores help them and not submit if they don’t. At UVA, at least, the admissions team has made clear that test scores are not central to their evaluation of students.

And others are pointing out that 70 percent of the enrolled kids submitted scores which belies that claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

Only 30% TO got in. Why handicap yourself ?wouldn't you want to be in the 70% since most of the 30% will be athletes and other hooks, first gen, URM.

That stat is enrolled students, not admitted. And it’s probably more like 40% given ACT/SAT submission overlap. And you’re making a lot of (racist) assumptions about who is and is not submitting test scores.

Finally, here’s a direct quote from Dean J on College Confidential: “UVA is test-optional and our application review was always more concerned with understanding students’ stories, told through courses and grades on transcripts, recommendations, essays, and activities. We are not (and were not) driven by test scores.”

Then just feel confident in your TO choice instead of trying to convince everyone.

I still have no idea why anyone would handicap themselves by not submitting—unless, of course, they didn’t score well.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I’m using data and quotes from a UVA admissions officer to counter the narrative that TO isn’t really TO. People should submit if they think their scores help them and not submit if they don’t. At UVA, at least, the admissions team has made clear that test scores are not central to their evaluation of students.

And others are pointing out that 70 percent of the enrolled kids submitted scores which belies that claim.

More like 60%. Pre-covid CDSs show 110-115% of students submitting, which means 10-15% submitted both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

Only 30% TO got in. Why handicap yourself ?wouldn't you want to be in the 70% since most of the 30% will be athletes and other hooks, first gen, URM.

That stat is enrolled students, not admitted. And it’s probably more like 40% given ACT/SAT submission overlap. And you’re making a lot of (racist) assumptions about who is and is not submitting test scores.

Finally, here’s a direct quote from Dean J on College Confidential: “UVA is test-optional and our application review was always more concerned with understanding students’ stories, told through courses and grades on transcripts, recommendations, essays, and activities. We are not (and were not) driven by test scores.”

Then just feel confident in your TO choice instead of trying to convince everyone.

I still have no idea why anyone would handicap themselves by not submitting—unless, of course, they didn’t score well.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I’m using data and quotes from a UVA admissions officer to counter the narrative that TO isn’t really TO. People should submit if they think their scores help them and not submit if they don’t. At UVA, at least, the admissions team has made clear that test scores are not central to their evaluation of students.

And others are pointing out that 70 percent of the enrolled kids submitted scores which belies that claim.

More like 60%. Pre-covid CDSs show 110-115% of students submitting, which means 10-15% submitted both.

A sizable majority of enrolled students submitted scores. Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

Only 30% TO got in. Why handicap yourself ?wouldn't you want to be in the 70% since most of the 30% will be athletes and other hooks, first gen, URM.

That stat is enrolled students, not admitted. And it’s probably more like 40% given ACT/SAT submission overlap. And you’re making a lot of (racist) assumptions about who is and is not submitting test scores.

Finally, here’s a direct quote from Dean J on College Confidential: “UVA is test-optional and our application review was always more concerned with understanding students’ stories, told through courses and grades on transcripts, recommendations, essays, and activities. We are not (and were not) driven by test scores.”

Then just feel confident in your TO choice instead of trying to convince everyone.

I still have no idea why anyone would handicap themselves by not submitting—unless, of course, they didn’t score well.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I’m using data and quotes from a UVA admissions officer to counter the narrative that TO isn’t really TO. People should submit if they think their scores help them and not submit if they don’t. At UVA, at least, the admissions team has made clear that test scores are not central to their evaluation of students.

And others are pointing out that 70 percent of the enrolled kids submitted scores which belies that claim.

More like 60%. Pre-covid CDSs show 110-115% of students submitting, which means 10-15% submitted both.

A sizable majority of enrolled students submitted scores. Yes.

Correct.

[Anonymous]

If you apply TO to UVA then you also can’t submit AP scores. This was asked in an Instagram live with Dean J and she was really dismissive of the question, saying something like you are thinking to hard about this bc test scores aren’t important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is fine at UVA but everything else needs to be outstanding.

My kid is submitting a 33….
OOS though.

What’s the 50% in CDS?

Don't know about CDS but SCHEV has the median ACT as a 33 for last year's incoming class. 75th percentile was a 34; Bottom 25th percentile a 32.

My kid also had 33 and we were advised to submit because of a couple of Bs in language classes. hope it was the right decision.

My DS was accepted with a 33 last year

[Anonymous]

Does DeanJ read files for NoVA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you apply TO to UVA then you also can’t submit AP scores. This was asked in an Instagram live with Dean J and she was really dismissive of the question, saying something like you are thinking to hard about this bc test scores aren’t important.

Of course you can. Here's the info re AP scores. Many, like my DC, submit AP test scores to get credits. https://admission.virginia.edu/node/361

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

+1. Also legacy although UVA said it dropped that this past summer; however it can still be mentioned in a side essay, so legacy is still a hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

Only 30% TO got in. Why handicap yourself ?wouldn't you want to be in the 70% since most of the 30% will be athletes and other hooks, first gen, URM.

That stat is enrolled students, not admitted. And it’s probably more like 40% given ACT/SAT submission overlap. And you’re making a lot of (racist) assumptions about who is and is not submitting test scores.

Finally, here’s a direct quote from Dean J on College Confidential: “UVA is test-optional and our application review was always more concerned with understanding students’ stories, told through courses and grades on transcripts, recommendations, essays, and activities. We are not (and were not) driven by test scores.”

Then just feel confident in your TO choice instead of trying to convince everyone.

I still have no idea why anyone would handicap themselves by not submitting—unless, of course, they didn’t score well.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I’m using data and quotes from a UVA admissions officer to counter the narrative that TO isn’t really TO. People should submit if they think their scores help them and not submit if they don’t. At UVA, at least, the admissions team has made clear that test scores are not central to their evaluation of students.

Admissions reps today are marketing people first, admissions counselors second. Their job is to increase the number of applications - period - so they can reject more so selectivity drops. That's why admissions people will lie to your face and say "GPA doesn't count! apply!" "Test scores don't count! apply!" "90 percent of our incoming class got financial aid. Apply!" etc. It's sad but true. Read more widely on College Confidential and Reddit and other sources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does DeanJ read files for NoVA?

part-time or by-the-hour readers usually do the first cull. Before you say "not true", here's an ad. UVA now gets 56K applications a year. It is a small public admissions office compared to privates and can do only so much. https://www.google.com/search?q=uva+readers+admissions&oq=uva+readers+admissions&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCggCEAAYhgMYigUyCggDEAAYhgMYigXSAQk5MTU2ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ibp=htl;jobs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi6idrg4MKCAxWYEVkFHWrDAbsQkd0GegQIFBAB#fpstate=tldetail&htivrt=jobs&htiq=uva+readers+admissions&htidocid=032q7elOTCUm9GiUAAAAAA%3D%3D&sxsrf=AM9HkKkq-ujVFiIO0qLwAvYjmlKf3BXY1w:1699939668631

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you apply TO to UVA then you also can’t submit AP scores. This was asked in an Instagram live with Dean J and she was really dismissive of the question, saying something like you are thinking to hard about this bc test scores aren’t important.

Then how come they aren’t Test Blind. Someone should ask Dean J that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does DeanJ read files for NoVA?

part-time or by-the-hour readers usually do the first cull. Before you say "not true", here's an ad. UVA now gets 56K applications a year. It is a small public admissions office compared to privates and can do only so much. https://www.google.com/search?q=uva+readers+admissions&oq=uva+readers+admissions&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCggCEAAYhgMYigUyCggDEAAYhgMYigXSAQk5MTU2ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ibp=htl;jobs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi6idrg4MKCAxWYEVkFHWrDAbsQkd0GegQIFBAB#fpstate=tldetail&htivrt=jobs&htiq=uva+readers+admissions&htidocid=032q7elOTCUm9GiUAAAAAA%3D%3D&sxsrf=AM9HkKkq-ujVFiIO0qLwAvYjmlKf3BXY1w:1699939668631

This is fairly common knowledge. I’m surprised you think this is news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you apply TO to UVA then you also can’t submit AP scores. This was asked in an Instagram live with Dean J and she was really dismissive of the question, saying something like you are thinking to hard about this bc test scores aren’t important.

Of course you can. Here's the info re AP scores. Many, like my DC, submit AP test scores to get credits. https://admission.virginia.edu/node/361

I meant for admissions