is applying Test Optional to UVA arts and sciences disadvantageous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

Nah. Colleges need to cut down the number of Applicants. 50k-90k at some places is ridiculous. No time to holistically review all of those.

Require tests and GPAs and you’ll cut the number of Applicants in half and get rid of the grade inflated kids too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:any private college counselor will tell you that white and asian kids need to submit their scores. TO is for the hooked. Admissions will never admit that but that is what is happening. Sure you will find the oddball white kid who gets in TO but everyone knows what is really going on. . Anyone who listens to deans of admissions (marketing people) is a fool. We now have a different set of admissions for different classes. it is what it is[/quote

No. Our private college counselor is telling us that TO is absolutely TO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to imagine that the range of scores they're getting is small, so it makes sense that they don't find them significant anymore.

With close to 50% not submitting scores, high scores would be helpful.

I keep hearing that if you come from a good school district, are MC-UMV-Wealthy, no scores = low scores to universities nowadays. As our Counselor likes to say, nobody is NOT submitting a 35 or 1500 SAT.

I hear that here, but I am not hearing it from college counselors.

Then you do you! Don’t ask for the DCUM opinion and then say well that’s the DCUM opinion.

Setting down. I'm not the OP. I'm another poster who is sharing my experience. No college counselor with whom we spoke said TO is a lie. Other posters here are the only place I've heard it. And other posters here are also saying that test optional is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to imagine that the range of scores they're getting is small, so it makes sense that they don't find them significant anymore.

With close to 50% not submitting scores, high scores would be helpful.

I keep hearing that if you come from a good school district, are MC-UMV-Wealthy, no scores = low scores to universities nowadays. As our Counselor likes to say, nobody is NOT submitting a 35 or 1500 SAT.

I hear that here, but I am not hearing it from college counselors.

Yup. This has become the accepted wisdom of DCUM, reinforced within DCUM. But when people cite actual information from actual admissions officers, people find reasons not to believe it. It’s like mass delusion.

Looking at the latest common data set, 71 percent of accepted students at UVA submitted test scores. That number is relatively high. I believe data over propaganda from the admissions office.

More like 60%. 10-15% submit both tests, per pre-covid CDSs.

[Anonymous]

If you have a 1500 submit…if not, TO?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

No. Grade inflation has gotten so out of hand.

My kid has straight As all 4 years- requiring test scores. It’s a way to distinguish kids that failed AP exams (didn’t submit them) and have low standardized test scores from the rest of the 250 Valedictorians at a single HS.

My kid also has straight As all through HS, and according to our school profile, only 5% of students graduate with a 4.0 unweighted. It’s not as common as everyone thinks. Admissions officers specialize in regions; they know high school reputations and understand what grades and rigor represent at each school. The idea that test scores are the only way they can sort through applicants shows real ignorance about the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

Only 30% TO got in. Why handicap yourself ?wouldn't you want to be in the 70% since most of the 30% will be athletes and other hooks, first gen, URM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

“Applying” is the opportune word.

Let’s wait for “accepted”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

Only 30% TO got in. Why handicap yourself ?wouldn't you want to be in the 70% since most of the 30% will be athletes and other hooks, first gen, URM.

That stat is enrolled students, not admitted. And it’s probably more like 40% given ACT/SAT submission overlap. And you’re making a lot of (racist) assumptions about who is and is not submitting test scores.

Finally, here’s a direct quote from Dean J on College Confidential: “UVA is test-optional and our application review was always more concerned with understanding students’ stories, told through courses and grades on transcripts, recommendations, essays, and activities. We are not (and were not) driven by test scores.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

Only 30% TO got in. Why handicap yourself ?wouldn't you want to be in the 70% since most of the 30% will be athletes and other hooks, first gen, URM.

That stat is enrolled students, not admitted. And it’s probably more like 40% given ACT/SAT submission overlap. And you’re making a lot of (racist) assumptions about who is and is not submitting test scores.

Finally, here’s a direct quote from Dean J on College Confidential: “UVA is test-optional and our application review was always more concerned with understanding students’ stories, told through courses and grades on transcripts, recommendations, essays, and activities. We are not (and were not) driven by test scores.”

Then just feel confident in your TO choice instead of trying to convince everyone.

I still have no idea why anyone would handicap themselves by not submitting—unless, of course, they didn’t score well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM just really wants testing to be more important than it is. Why are you afraid for your kid to be judged on their academics without testing?

If the AOs say TO is fine, why are you so adamant that they're wrong? How does it benefit them to lie?

They want certain categories of students to apply test optional , but can’t say that aloud. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand.

NP: this is a post about UVA. According to the CDS. 30-35% of enrolled students were TO. Are you arguing that all of the URM students (15%) were TO? And even if that were true, who are the other 15-20% of students? Somehow they are not white or Asian?

Institutional priorities, which are would include athletic recruits, urm, Pell eligible, first ten etc . And yes, some of those hooked kids might be white or Asian. If your kid is hooked, apply test optional.

Well according to the published data more than SOME of those kids are white or Asian. Looks like 50%!

Lots of white kids applying to UVA TO this year!! I can personally attest!
Happy to update you….

Only 30% TO got in. Why handicap yourself ?wouldn't you want to be in the 70% since most of the 30% will be athletes and other hooks, first gen, URM.

That stat is enrolled students, not admitted. And it’s probably more like 40% given ACT/SAT submission overlap. And you’re making a lot of (racist) assumptions about who is and is not submitting test scores.

Finally, here’s a direct quote from Dean J on College Confidential: “UVA is test-optional and our application review was always more concerned with understanding students’ stories, told through courses and grades on transcripts, recommendations, essays, and activities. We are not (and were not) driven by test scores.”

Then just feel confident in your TO choice instead of trying to convince everyone.

I still have no idea why anyone would handicap themselves by not submitting—unless, of course, they didn’t score well.

DP: my child is applying with scores. What I'm pushing back on is the narrative that TO is for URM kids, which is the claim that others are challenging with data. Also, the majority of athletes are not applying TO or admitted TO and there will be overlap in other hooked categories such as race and 1st gen.