PSAT disasters today--

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine reported that they thought the digital was easier than the paper practice tests. What did your kids report?

Yes. The digital is supposed to be easier but a worse curve than the paper.

Digital is easier only if student isn’t doing great, the digital feeds harder questions based on performance of first sections.

And just to follow up, the harder questions are given more weight. So kids that “make it” to the harder sections have the potential for higher scores than those that don’t.

DD said the math was hard, really advanced questions. She wrote them out after to make sure she can do them next year.

My kid said so too. She's confident that she got a perfect on both English and first math. She said the second math got very tricky at the end.
She has a 1570 SAT so she's a great test taker.

Wow! I'm PP and DD is a sophomore but enrolled in pre-calculus. It was her first test.

My kid (the poster you're talking to) just finished pre-calc and is now in AB calculus. PSAT math is all Algebra 2 and below. So while the added year of math may serve as a general mental exercise the math concepts are all old for many juniors. This is especially true for stuff like geometry which you don't really use again once you learn it and many juniors take 2-3 years before they take the PSAT/SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine reported that they thought the digital was easier than the paper practice tests. What did your kids report?

Yes. The digital is supposed to be easier but a worse curve than the paper.

Digital is easier only if student isn’t doing great, the digital feeds harder questions based on performance of first sections.

And just to follow up, the harder questions are given more weight. So kids that “make it” to the harder sections have the potential for higher scores than those that don’t.

DD said the math was hard, really advanced questions. She wrote them out after to make sure she can do them next year.

My kid said so too. She's confident that she got a perfect on both English and first math. She said the second math got very tricky at the end.
She has a 1570 SAT so she's a great test taker.

Wow! I'm PP and DD is a sophomore but enrolled in pre-calculus. It was her first test.

My kid (the poster you're talking to) just finished pre-calc and is now in AB calculus. PSAT math is all Algebra 2 and below. So while the added year of math may serve as a general mental exercise the math concepts are all old for many juniors. This is especially true for stuff like geometry which you don't really use again once you learn it and many juniors take 2-3 years before they take the PSAT/SAT.

That’s why my junior went ahead and did a math review before the PSAT, figuring it would help them with both. They definitely needed the refresher, especially after the debacle of virtual geometry in 8th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There definitely is a curve established by the college board beforehand based on the difficulty of the questions.

Yeah, no, there is a curve but it is obviously established after the fact.

PP is correct, there is a higher weight given to questions in the more difficult second modules, that is decided before the fact.

I don’t think the curve is static and predefined.

Correct. People here seem not to know what "curve" means, how it works, or why it would be used.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There definitely is a curve established by the college board beforehand based on the difficulty of the questions.

Yeah, no, there is a curve but it is obviously established after the fact.

PP is correct, there is a higher weight given to questions in the more difficult second modules, that is decided before the fact.

I don’t think the curve is static and predefined.

Correct. People here seem not to know what "curve" means, how it works, or why it would be used.

NP! Please explain bc you’re right. I have no clue about a PSAT curve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine reported that they thought the digital was easier than the paper practice tests. What did your kids report?

Yes. The digital is supposed to be easier but a worse curve than the paper.

Digital is easier only if student isn’t doing great, the digital feeds harder questions based on performance of first sections.

And just to follow up, the harder questions are given more weight. So kids that “make it” to the harder sections have the potential for higher scores than those that don’t.

DD said the math was hard, really advanced questions. She wrote them out after to make sure she can do them next year.

My kid said so too. She's confident that she got a perfect on both English and first math. She said the second math got very tricky at the end.
She has a 1570 SAT so she's a great test taker.

Wow! I'm PP and DD is a sophomore but enrolled in pre-calculus. It was her first test.

My kid (the poster you're talking to) just finished pre-calc and is now in AB calculus. PSAT math is all Algebra 2 and below. So while the added year of math may serve as a general mental exercise the math concepts are all old for many juniors. This is especially true for stuff like geometry which you don't really use again once you learn it and many juniors take 2-3 years before they take the PSAT/SAT.

That’s why my junior went ahead and did a math review before the PSAT, figuring it would help them with both. They definitely needed the refresher, especially after the debacle of virtual geometry in 8th.

Mine did as well. She’s presently a college math and physics major so math is her thing, but since she was in Calculus her junior year the SAT math was so old and simple for her that she was overthinking it. She did some intensive reviews on Khan academy and just kept reminding herself that it was basic Algebra, not Calc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There definitely is a curve established by the college board beforehand based on the difficulty of the questions.

Yeah, no, there is a curve but it is obviously established after the fact.

PP is correct, there is a higher weight given to questions in the more difficult second modules, that is decided before the fact.

I don’t think the curve is static and predefined.

Correct. People here seem not to know what "curve" means, how it works, or why it would be used.

NP! Please explain bc you’re right. I have no clue about a PSAT curve.

DP: the PP is correct that the questions in the more difficult second modules is given more weight towards the total score, which is different than the scoring for the paper version. The test is adaptive, similar to the MAP tests, and allows for less questions compared to the full paper version to arrive at an equivalent score. However, the test isn't curved because your child's performance (and final score) is not compared to other students who took the test.

The college board uses statistical equating, which some people colloquially refer to as a "curve."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There definitely is a curve established by the college board beforehand based on the difficulty of the questions.

Yeah, no, there is a curve but it is obviously established after the fact.

PP is correct, there is a higher weight given to questions in the more difficult second modules, that is decided before the fact.

I don’t think the curve is static and predefined.

Correct. People here seem not to know what "curve" means, how it works, or why it would be used.

NP! Please explain bc you’re right. I have no clue about a PSAT curve.

DP: the PP is correct that the questions in the more difficult second modules is given more weight towards the total score, which is different than the scoring for the paper version. The test is adaptive, similar to the MAP tests, and allows for less questions compared to the full paper version to arrive at an equivalent score. However, the test isn't curved because your child's performance (and final score) is not compared to other students who took the test.

The college board uses statistical equating, which some people colloquially refer to as a "curve."

That is my understanding too. I assume a perfect score means you have to get to the hard questions? It'll be interesting how the scores look.

[Anonymous]

This is very helpful. I thought it was curve based on everyone who took the test. So if the test was hard compared to the test before (for example, a Sept test if there was one) then how does that even out? Sorry, don’t mean to be dumb here but just don’t understand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is very helpful. I thought it was curve based on everyone who took the test. So if the test was hard compared to the test before (for example, a Sept test if there was one) then how does that even out? Sorry, don’t mean to be dumb here but just don’t understand it.

I think the current (paper based) SAT is curved based on the overal cohort's score. I.e. some months you can miss 4 questions for a 780 math and some months you can miss 3 for the same 780 (or whatever--these are completely made up numbers)

I'm not sure about the scoring for the new digital PSAT and SAT. Kids are not all taking the same questions so it probably negates the need for any adjustment.

[Anonymous]

This will be interesting to see how it comes out with the digital. My child thought the digital was much easier because the questions were easier and the reading passages were much shorter, and there was only one question per reading so let’s to have to go back too. Plus she said she had so much time remains versus the poet where she struggled with time constraints. She’s taking the paper SAT this fall since she’s a junior but may score better in the spring with the digital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There definitely is a curve established by the college board beforehand based on the difficulty of the questions.

Yeah, no, there is a curve but it is obviously established after the fact.

PP is correct, there is a higher weight given to questions in the more difficult second modules, that is decided before the fact.

I don’t think the curve is static and predefined.

Correct. People here seem not to know what "curve" means, how it works, or why it would be used.

NP! Please explain bc you’re right. I have no clue about a PSAT curve.

DP: the PP is correct that the questions in the more difficult second modules is given more weight towards the total score, which is different than the scoring for the paper version. The test is adaptive, similar to the MAP tests, and allows for less questions compared to the full paper version to arrive at an equivalent score. However, the test isn't curved because your child's performance (and final score) is not compared to other students who took the test.

The college board uses statistical equating, which some people colloquially refer to as a "curve."

That is my understanding too. I assume a perfect score means you have to get to the hard questions? It'll be interesting how the scores look.

Yes, the first modules are a mix of easy, medium and hard questions. You must do well on the first modules to advance to the harder second modules. If you don't do well, your score is capped. (One well-known SAT expert said on a blog that he has been studying the digital practice test that the College Board released and thinks the cap is around 1200.) There are many testing experts and prep companies trying to determine what doing well means (no surprise!). According to experts, the College Board hasn't confirmed if doing well on the first module means 1) missing less than a specific number of questions, e.g., 19 correct out of 22 for the math section 1, or 2) some combination of minimum raw score AND getting the majority of the medium/difficult questions correct.

I suspect it is the latter based on my case study of 1 My child took 2 of the 4 practice digital tests; on the first test, he scored lower even though he only missed 2 problems on each of the first modules. However, he missed 6-8 questions on each of the second harder modules. On the second test, he scored significantly higher (200 pts) by missing only 1-2 questions on the first modules but reducing the number of incorrect answers in the second modules by 50%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is very helpful. I thought it was curve based on everyone who took the test. So if the test was hard compared to the test before (for example, a Sept test if there was one) then how does that even out? Sorry, don’t mean to be dumb here but just don’t understand it.

I think the current (paper based) SAT is curved based on the overal cohort's score. I.e. some months you can miss 4 questions for a 780 math and some months you can miss 3 for the same 780 (or whatever--these are completely made up numbers)

I'm not sure about the scoring for the new digital PSAT and SAT. Kids are not all taking the same questions so it probably negates the need for any adjustment.

It's not the overall cohort's score-- it's the difficulty of the questions on the test. So an easier test, you can miss 3 questions to score 780, and on a harder test, 4 questions. They are equating the test questions. However, the corresponding scores and percentiles (i.e., 50%, 95%) are adjusted according to the actual user (cohort) scores in the last 3 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:when do we get the results? Since it's administered by computer and not paper, Im guessing it should be quick. I have a meeting soon with the school principal to support my kid's interest in taking a higher level math class and a high score on the PSAT could really boster my kid's argument.

When to Expect Scores
Students will receive 2023 October scores in two releases: on November 6 and November 16, 2023. Which release a student falls in depends on what day they tested and when their answers were submitted.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is very helpful. I thought it was curve based on everyone who took the test. So if the test was hard compared to the test before (for example, a Sept test if there was one) then how does that even out? Sorry, don’t mean to be dumb here but just don’t understand it.

All kids get the same group of questions for the first modules. Depending on how they do, they will either get a similar second set or a harder second set. The questions in the harder set are weighted higher. So, if a kid does not get the harder questions, their score will have a ceiling below the max possible score for the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is very helpful. I thought it was curve based on everyone who took the test. So if the test was hard compared to the test before (for example, a Sept test if there was one) then how does that even out? Sorry, don’t mean to be dumb here but just don’t understand it.

All kids get the same group of questions for the first modules. Depending on how they do, they will either get a similar second set or a harder second set. The questions in the harder set are weighted higher. So, if a kid does not get the harder questions, their score will have a ceiling below the max possible score for the test.

so does getting the easier second set(s) preclude NMSF?
I would imagine so, especially in DC/VA/MD.