Being summoned back to the office four days a week and anxious/sick over it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

That's silly. Why should kids then return to school? Why not have all of them continue to do virtual learning?

because we are adults and we CAN work remotely - because we are adults?

there are many adults who take advantage of wfh, and work second jobs, or are hard to reach. So, no, not all adults can work remotely.

And third jobs, drinking, gambling, smoking, napping, watching Netflix, watching phub, making dinner, going to gym, golfing etc

I agree wfh can be more productive. But in reality the time saved for most does not go into more work.

Does it matter? Are they actually doing less work than they would at the office?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

NP and although I would never admit this to our employees but one of the reasons we are doing this is to make it harder for people to quit (i.e. they use up more PTO for dr. appointments, etc. and they also have to take off a significant portion of the day if they interview elsewhere so it makes it harder for them to switch jobs). I don't really get a vote but if it were up to me I would try to make our place a better place to work so people want to stay but as another poster noted it's all about the bottom line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

That's silly. Why should kids then return to school? Why not have all of them continue to do virtual learning?

because we are adults and we CAN work remotely - because we are adults?

there are many adults who take advantage of wfh, and work second jobs, or are hard to reach. So, no, not all adults can work remotely.

And third jobs, drinking, gambling, smoking, napping, watching Netflix, watching phub, making dinner, going to gym, golfing etc

I agree wfh can be more productive. But in reality the time saved for most does not go into more work.

Does it matter? Are they actually doing less work than they would at the office?

In my experience those not in the office are doing less and also are doing none of the extra things you might do in an office like mentoring junior colleagues or participating in ad hoc idea sessions. It’s a real loss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since COVID, I have worked from home and it's been wonderful. I'm super productive - and also cozy at home. I am a huge introvert and I savor not having to "face" the world. And, a lot of my work is independent anyway. I wear my soft pants, I light a candle next to my desk, I can dash out to pick up my kids, I have soup simmering ... and I get a TON DONE.

We go back in person next week and I feel legit sick to my stomach. I wake up at 4am sweaty and panicked. The commute sucks. The rows of cubicles blow. The entire vibe is just...not home. I hate it and it's making me feel ill. Like the work but hate office culture. I don't know what to do.

The bolded, plus laundry, a quick trip to grocery store, etc, are exactly why so many companies are requiring RTO.

Yup. The “I get a ton done” is always referencing personal stuff during work hours. These people getting so worked up about going back to the office are so transparent. Find a new job, negotiate, or go back. The whining and fake panic attacks are ridiculous.

Yep. I am a teacher (I am half time and work 2.5 days a week) and I see it in the HUGE increase of parents picking up elementary kids at school at 2:30 (vs. using aftercare) and also how many more people are shopping in stores midday running errands. All of these people's employers think they are working.

Our school did not nor does have many buses. We have no option but to pick up our kids

Use aftercare. Pay a babysitter. What did you do before Covid? At our school there were 1/2 as many parents picking up before Covid.

[Anonymous]

Most people I know who are remote essentially work part time, especially if they have elementary aged kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

NP and although I would never admit this to our employees but one of the reasons we are doing this is to make it harder for people to quit (i.e. they use up more PTO for dr. appointments, etc. and they also have to take off a significant portion of the day if they interview elsewhere so it makes it harder for them to switch jobs). I don't really get a vote but if it were up to me I would try to make our place a better place to work so people want to stay but as another poster noted it's all about the bottom line.

We’re doing it to cull the herd without having to do layoffs. The true producers have been coming into the office since we reopened in fall 2021. If people quit rather than RTO, we can meet our headcount goals, open some positions for those who are coming in to move into, and rehire for their position if necessary.

Most of the people who don’t want to RTO are middle management types who are making $150-$200k plus benefits. Consolidating some of these positions has real budgetary impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

That's silly. Why should kids then return to school? Why not have all of them continue to do virtual learning?

because we are adults and we CAN work remotely - because we are adults?

there are many adults who take advantage of wfh, and work second jobs, or are hard to reach. So, no, not all adults can work remotely.

And third jobs, drinking, gambling, smoking, napping, watching Netflix, watching phub, making dinner, going to gym, golfing etc

I agree wfh can be more productive. But in reality the time saved for most does not go into more work.

Does it matter? Are they actually doing less work than they would at the office?

When people don't respond right away or aren't available, it slows everyone else down. So even if they are doing the same amount of work, it can have a big impact on others having colleagues who WFH but are busy doing laundry, walking the dog, picking up the kids, making soup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

NP and although I would never admit this to our employees but one of the reasons we are doing this is to make it harder for people to quit (i.e. they use up more PTO for dr. appointments, etc. and they also have to take off a significant portion of the day if they interview elsewhere so it makes it harder for them to switch jobs). I don't really get a vote but if it were up to me I would try to make our place a better place to work so people want to stay but as another poster noted it's all about the bottom line.

Isn't this just the same logic. If you're interviewing for another job no matter where you are working, you should take PTO!

I know SO MANY people who do things like leave early on a Friday for a long weekend while they're "working". They respond if someone pings them. That's it. They're not working. A lot of abuse of time happening.

Even "dashing out" to pick up the kids. I have kids. It's not exactly a dash to get them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since COVID, I have worked from home and it's been wonderful. I'm super productive - and also cozy at home. I am a huge introvert and I savor not having to "face" the world. And, a lot of my work is independent anyway. I wear my soft pants, I light a candle next to my desk, I can dash out to pick up my kids, I have soup simmering ... and I get a TON DONE.

We go back in person next week and I feel legit sick to my stomach. I wake up at 4am sweaty and panicked. The commute sucks. The rows of cubicles blow. The entire vibe is just...not home. I hate it and it's making me feel ill. Like the work but hate office culture. I don't know what to do.

The bolded, plus laundry, a quick trip to grocery store, etc, are exactly why so many companies are requiring RTO.

It is this. All those chats that took 45 minutes to 2 hours to answer while you were out swimming/walking/watching a kids soccer game/doing yard work are paying off with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

NP and although I would never admit this to our employees but one of the reasons we are doing this is to make it harder for people to quit (i.e. they use up more PTO for dr. appointments, etc. and they also have to take off a significant portion of the day if they interview elsewhere so it makes it harder for them to switch jobs). I don't really get a vote but if it were up to me I would try to make our place a better place to work so people want to stay but as another poster noted it's all about the bottom line.

We’re doing it to cull the herd without having to do layoffs. The true producers have been coming into the office since we reopened in fall 2021. If people quit rather than RTO, we can meet our headcount goals, open some positions for those who are coming in to move into, and rehire for their position if necessary.

Most of the people who don’t want to RTO are middle management types who are making $150-$200k plus benefits. Consolidating some of these positions has real budgetary impact.

All of this. My office came back 3 days this summer and every person who threatened to resign was someone I would be ok losing. The superstars were already back or happy to be coming back. And guess what, those who threatened to leave are all still with us, they didn’t find mythical fully remote jobs where they could make soup all day in their cozy homes for $200k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

NP and although I would never admit this to our employees but one of the reasons we are doing this is to make it harder for people to quit (i.e. they use up more PTO for dr. appointments, etc. and they also have to take off a significant portion of the day if they interview elsewhere so it makes it harder for them to switch jobs). I don't really get a vote but if it were up to me I would try to make our place a better place to work so people want to stay but as another poster noted it's all about the bottom line.

Isn't this just the same logic. If you're interviewing for another job no matter where you are working, you should take PTO!

I know SO MANY people who do things like leave early on a Friday for a long weekend while they're "working". They respond if someone pings them. That's it. They're not working. A lot of abuse of time happening.

Even "dashing out" to pick up the kids. I have kids. It's not exactly a dash to get them.

PP here and not really. If someone is TW they can take 30 mins of PTO to do a phone screen whereas if they are in the office they need to take off much more time so they can do the phone interview at home. Alternatively, if they are doing an on-site interview they need to take off more time during the day to do it.

Applies in a similar way for dr. appointments. Say the appt is at 10 they will likely take off the morning and then they need to commute to the office afterwards whereas with TW they could work, take PTO for appointment, then go home and continue working. All of this leads to less PTO available for interviews for switching jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

That's silly. Why should kids then return to school? Why not have all of them continue to do virtual learning?

because we are adults and we CAN work remotely - because we are adults?

Obviously not as efficiently or you wouldn’t be expected to go back. Just because you think you are so productive at home doesn’t mean everyone agrees with you.

[Anonymous]

This sounds like mental illness, OP.
Get some control of your anxiety before it takes over your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

That's silly. Why should kids then return to school? Why not have all of them continue to do virtual learning?

because we are adults and we CAN work remotely - because we are adults?

there are many adults who take advantage of wfh, and work second jobs, or are hard to reach. So, no, not all adults can work remotely.

And third jobs, drinking, gambling, smoking, napping, watching Netflix, watching phub, making dinner, going to gym, golfing etc

I agree wfh can be more productive. But in reality the time saved for most does not go into more work.

But there is no guarantee time in the office goes into more work. It just makes people feel better to see people in chairs or in meetings. Ppl being silent in zoom meetings is somehow seen as worse than being silent at in-person meetings. There is no difference except location.

My complaint is my one staff says when he WFH makes him happier, can sleep in a little later, walk kid to bus stop, have lunch wife, play with kids when off bus. But zero mention of any benefit company. He works less than home.

If he only work a bit harder or a little longer when home be a better business case. He works less.

I WFH for three years and now at least have illusion was working more. I’m hit lap top everyday at 630 am for 30-45 minutes. Go have breakfast and coffee with wife. Back on 9-5pm. Then take a break, dinner wife, watch TV kid stuff. Open up laptop again from 10-10:30 pm for 10-15 minutes. And had my phone with email and slack if anything popped up. My staff I see his activity he is barely on line 2-3 hours a day on WFH days. I gave up managing him at home. So moved him to 4 days in office and take that fifth day as a loss

[Anonymous]

I changed jobs to stay remote. You can do it too.