The ECNL scam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those camps are more of the same if the coach doesn't reach out specifically to invite you.

Disagree. College coaches started tracking my kid at age 11-12 because he stood out at their residential camps. They never invited him. He just keep showing up and ended up playing at an ACC school because they became familiar with him as a player and person.

So, you're in disagreement, because just showing up at a camp with hundreds of other players is a Better way to get recruited than collaborating with a coach in advance and having the coach coming to the even prepared to find and see you?

I disagree that the camps are "more of the same" and they don't have any merit. I didn't compare it to anything. Not the one who commented on ECNL before. I'm just telling you my experience - that my kid went to camps and leveraged that into a college scholarship. Would his college recruiting experience have been different through a different approach? Probably. Maybe better / maybe worse. But, it's hard for me to discredit college camps when it worked for us. Why is everyone so angry all the time?

Because everyone is trying to justify their decisions and paying so much money. I read these posts sometimes and think that person must be wrong because they made a different choice than me and I know much more than that anonymous person obviously. Then I stop and remember that everyone has to make the right choice for their kid and family. I wish the US system was different, I wish more lower income kids could be seen and it wasn't so pay to play, I wish Clubs weren't just trying to make a buck (in every league) by selling parents that their club and league are the best and only way. But it's not so I come on sites like this to gather information and do what's best in our situation. I like hearing peoples experiences but I do wish so many people didn't spend so much time trying to convince us all that their experience is the best and only one.

That's awesome a camp worked out for your son!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What's the ROI in spending all that money and time/expenses for years in ECNL?

Are there actually parents who look at youth sports as an investment and expect a monetary return? Sheesh. No wonder they think everything is a scam.

Do they also view all the money spent on food, clothes, and toys as an investment to eventually earn their money back? I've never thought of kids as a money making scheme but maybe I'm doing it wrong. That halloween costume that costs $50? Not a good investment to only get back only $20 worth of candy. I would be better off from an investment standpoint if I just bought the candy directly. Where's my return on the $5000 for braces or summer camps or Disney vacations? Are those are all scams too.

Do you spend $5,000 on the Versace version of $50 Halloween costume, then drive 8 hours to a well decorated neighborhood to get the same candy as available in your neighborhood?

No, but I don't judge if someone else did. Who's to say what is "worth" paying for? It's a personal decision. I choose to drive a $35k car but other people who make the same income drive one double that price. Is it worth it? Not for me but it is for them. A family vacation to a beach we can drive to might be $5000, but a family trip to the beach somewhere further might be $15,000. Things are worth what the person writing the check is willing to pay. It's not a scam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What's the ROI in spending all that money and time/expenses for years in ECNL?

Are there actually parents who look at youth sports as an investment and expect a monetary return? Sheesh. No wonder they think everything is a scam.

Do they also view all the money spent on food, clothes, and toys as an investment to eventually earn their money back? I've never thought of kids as a money making scheme but maybe I'm doing it wrong. That halloween costume that costs $50? Not a good investment to only get back only $20 worth of candy. I would be better off from an investment standpoint if I just bought the candy directly. Where's my return on the $5000 for braces or summer camps or Disney vacations? Are those are all scams too.

Do you spend $5,000 on the Versace version of $50 Halloween costume, then drive 8 hours to a well decorated neighborhood to get the same candy as available in your neighborhood?

No, but I don't judge if someone else did. Who's to say what is "worth" paying for? It's a personal decision. I choose to drive a $35k car but other people who make the same income drive one double that price. Is it worth it? Not for me but it is for them. A family vacation to a beach we can drive to might be $5000, but a family trip to the beach somewhere further might be $15,000. Things are worth what the person writing the check is willing to pay. It's not a scam.

DP. That’s all fair, but I think it is also fair to ask the question as to why someone is paying what they are paying for something. They don’t owe an explanation and are entitled to do as they will, but it’s a fair discussion on an anonymous message board…and sadly, there are people here paying up for Boys ECNL and talking about scouts on sidelines and ROI, when most here know that is misguided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What's the ROI in spending all that money and time/expenses for years in ECNL?

Are there actually parents who look at youth sports as an investment and expect a monetary return? Sheesh. No wonder they think everything is a scam.

Do they also view all the money spent on food, clothes, and toys as an investment to eventually earn their money back? I've never thought of kids as a money making scheme but maybe I'm doing it wrong. That halloween costume that costs $50? Not a good investment to only get back only $20 worth of candy. I would be better off from an investment standpoint if I just bought the candy directly. Where's my return on the $5000 for braces or summer camps or Disney vacations? Are those are all scams too.

Do you spend $5,000 on the Versace version of $50 Halloween costume, then drive 8 hours to a well decorated neighborhood to get the same candy as available in your neighborhood?

No, but I don't judge if someone else did. Who's to say what is "worth" paying for? It's a personal decision. I choose to drive a $35k car but other people who make the same income drive one double that price. Is it worth it? Not for me but it is for them. A family vacation to a beach we can drive to might be $5000, but a family trip to the beach somewhere further might be $15,000. Things are worth what the person writing the check is willing to pay. It's not a scam.

DP. That’s all fair, but I think it is also fair to ask the question as to why someone is paying what they are paying for something. They don’t owe an explanation and are entitled to do as they will, but it’s a fair discussion on an anonymous message board…and sadly, there are people here paying up for Boys ECNL and talking about scouts on sidelines and ROI, when most here know that is misguided.

I don’t ask or care why my neighbor drives a BMW. I don’t feel the need to “correct” misguided people. I’d rather have lots of misguided people out there living in their dream world because it gives me the advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What's the ROI in spending all that money and time/expenses for years in ECNL?

Are there actually parents who look at youth sports as an investment and expect a monetary return? Sheesh. No wonder they think everything is a scam.

Very, very few.

The people in here calling it a "scam" are the ones who have no experience/connection with youth sports. Their kids are in band and Model UN, which is fine. But they are not here for an honest, educated discussion. They just want to troll you for being "scammed" so they can feel morally superior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what is the scam? I'm not exactly sure who created ECNL but I'm guessing someone saw a need to create a league to consolidate talent that they can pitch to to college coaches that coming to these ECNL events will be worth their while for recruiting...and it worked. My son, who is white, played for a predominately Latino EDP D1 team. Tons of talent on that team. ECNL level kids. Everyone understood that continuing on this team would not provide the platform to be seen by as many college coaches, so my son left and now plays on an ECNL team, so did others. Is ECNL more expensive? Very much so....especially when you add in the travel costs. His three years at ECNL, plus this year, he has had zero white coaches. His team consists of about 1/3 white kids. less than 25% came from the local mega clubs. All the others started out at small clubs like my son. So I don't understand what the issues are here. I do understand that some kids can't afford ECNL and therefore don't get the opportunity, but I don't see that as ECNL's fault.

What's the ROI in spending all that money and time/expenses for years in ECNL?
Isn't MLS Next the big dog and go-to for college recruiting? (after International players)

How is ECNL measurably 'better' for college/pro future than say EDP1... considering scouts recruit players, not teams?

I'm not looking for an ROI. I that THAT"S what wrong with youth sports...parents looking for ROI instead of just wanting their kids to play and challenge themselves.

How is ECNL better for scouts? Look at the side lines? We have DC United and a few other local coaches at almost every home game. When we went to playoffs in the summer, I think we had 25 colleges watching our final game in group play. They watch because the overall quality is better. The teams are better than EDP1 and the opponents are better. So even though the coach is watching an individual player, they are seeing that individual play in a much more competitive environment. Even tournaments like Bethesda and Jeff Cup don't pull the number of colleges like an ECNL showcase....and just to be fair, MLS Next showcases attract even more coaches than ECNL...even though, at least locally, ECNL teams and MLS Next teams are very competitive. Some ECNL teams are stronger than MLS Next teams, but it is what it is. Some kids what to play HS so they choose ECNL.

Sounds like you see the higher probability of getting scouted by college scouts (and recruited) as the R on your I to me.

No my ROI is that my kid is happy. My kid's ROI is probably that he may get seen by more scouts than at EDP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what is the scam? I'm not exactly sure who created ECNL but I'm guessing someone saw a need to create a league to consolidate talent that they can pitch to to college coaches that coming to these ECNL events will be worth their while for recruiting...and it worked. My son, who is white, played for a predominately Latino EDP D1 team. Tons of talent on that team. ECNL level kids. Everyone understood that continuing on this team would not provide the platform to be seen by as many college coaches, so my son left and now plays on an ECNL team, so did others. Is ECNL more expensive? Very much so....especially when you add in the travel costs. His three years at ECNL, plus this year, he has had zero white coaches. His team consists of about 1/3 white kids. less than 25% came from the local mega clubs. All the others started out at small clubs like my son. So I don't understand what the issues are here. I do understand that some kids can't afford ECNL and therefore don't get the opportunity, but I don't see that as ECNL's fault.

What's the ROI in spending all that money and time/expenses for years in ECNL?
Isn't MLS Next the big dog and go-to for college recruiting? (after International players)

How is ECNL measurably 'better' for college/pro future than say EDP1... considering scouts recruit players, not teams?

I'm not looking for an ROI. I that THAT"S what wrong with youth sports...parents looking for ROI instead of just wanting their kids to play and challenge themselves.

How is ECNL better for scouts? Look at the side lines? We have DC United and a few other local coaches at almost every home game. When we went to playoffs in the summer, I think we had 25 colleges watching our final game in group play. They watch because the overall quality is better. The teams are better than EDP1 and the opponents are better. So even though the coach is watching an individual player, they are seeing that individual play in a much more competitive environment. Even tournaments like Bethesda and Jeff Cup don't pull the number of colleges like an ECNL showcase....and just to be fair, MLS Next showcases attract even more coaches than ECNL...even though, at least locally, ECNL teams and MLS Next teams are very competitive. Some ECNL teams are stronger than MLS Next teams, but it is what it is. Some kids what to play HS so they choose ECNL.

Sounds like a very subjective emotional take here, with a tailored narrative to suit your confirmation bias requirements.

DC United Scouts are seen watching games everywhere in the DMV at games for every league.
Please stop the false equivalence between MLS Next and ECNL. All the knowledgeable objective people know the truth. MLS Next is clearly a cut above ECNL.
If you take the time to look at the rosters of D1 top 25 college soccer teams, it is predominantly by a large percentage, International and MLS Club Academy players, followed by MLS Next.

You are spending that much money and that much time traveling around for a challenge?
Why isn't playing in EDP a challenge?

Soccer isn't basketball or football to US Colleges. There aren't big budgets and resources for scouting. So no, they aren't at ECNL showcases as your narrative suggests, when MLS Next events has one stop quality shopping. (yes, yes, there are surely some quality individual ECNL, EDP, NCSL, NAL, MSI players)

Biases? I'm just stating facts.

Local MLS Next Teams: DC, Baltimore Armour, Bethesda, Alexandria, SYC, and Achilles (but I think they folded or something).
ECNL Teams in VA: Arlington, Loudoun, VA Union, Brave, VDA

In my son's age group, over the past 2 years, my son's team tied and lost by 1 to DC, they are 2 wins, 1 loss vs Armour, 1 win 1 loss vs Bethesda, 1 win vs Alexandria, 1 loss vs SYC, and never played Achilles. In general, lost by 1 to Delco, beat Wake twice, and that's all I can think off of the top of my head. I feel like that's pretty competitive.

And I said that MLS Next attracts far more colleges than ECNL. I agree that when it comes to recruiting and placement, MLS Next is above ECNL.

[Anonymous]

PP here re: camps, the model there is to send out hundreds if not thousands of invites to kids across a wide region. It is awesome that your kid caught a coaches eye! That's certainly not the norm when an undifferentiated mass of players shows up anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here re: camps, the model there is to send out hundreds if not thousands of invites to kids across a wide region. It is awesome that your kid caught a coaches eye! That's certainly not the norm when an undifferentiated mass of players shows up anywhere.

My kid got an invites a year after she quit the sport and she only topped out at USYS. She couldn't play at the college level in a million years, but she still got them. Camps are a funding source for underfunded programs as much as they are a vehicle for recruiting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here re: camps, the model there is to send out hundreds if not thousands of invites to kids across a wide region. It is awesome that your kid caught a coaches eye! That's certainly not the norm when an undifferentiated mass of players shows up anywhere.

My kid got an invites a year after she quit the sport and she only topped out at USYS. She couldn't play at the college level in a million years, but she still got them. Camps are a funding source for underfunded programs as much as they are a vehicle for recruiting

Yes, they are always willing to take money from the parents of kids who have no realistic chance. For two main reasons: 1.) Soccer is not a revenue-generating sport in terms of ticket sales, advertising, etc. The money has to come from somewhere. 2.) We don't need even further class structures within youth soccer. Most camps have a fairly uniform disclaimer at the bottom of their camp info that says limited only by age and number of participants. Basically it's the Equal Opportunity Employer equivalent within the legal realm of either USYS, NCAA, or whatever governing body applies.
It's on the parents to be honest what they are attending the camp to try to achieve: the experience, the development, the exposure, or the money dump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what is the scam? I'm not exactly sure who created ECNL but I'm guessing someone saw a need to create a league to consolidate talent that they can pitch to to college coaches that coming to these ECNL events will be worth their while for recruiting...and it worked. My son, who is white, played for a predominately Latino EDP D1 team. Tons of talent on that team. ECNL level kids. Everyone understood that continuing on this team would not provide the platform to be seen by as many college coaches, so my son left and now plays on an ECNL team, so did others. Is ECNL more expensive? Very much so....especially when you add in the travel costs. His three years at ECNL, plus this year, he has had zero white coaches. His team consists of about 1/3 white kids. less than 25% came from the local mega clubs. All the others started out at small clubs like my son. So I don't understand what the issues are here. I do understand that some kids can't afford ECNL and therefore don't get the opportunity, but I don't see that as ECNL's fault.

What's the ROI in spending all that money and time/expenses for years in ECNL?
Isn't MLS Next the big dog and go-to for college recruiting? (after International players)

How is ECNL measurably 'better' for college/pro future than say EDP1... considering scouts recruit players, not teams?

I'm not looking for an ROI. I that THAT"S what wrong with youth sports...parents looking for ROI instead of just wanting their kids to play and challenge themselves.

How is ECNL better for scouts? Look at the side lines? We have DC United and a few other local coaches at almost every home game. When we went to playoffs in the summer, I think we had 25 colleges watching our final game in group play. They watch because the overall quality is better. The teams are better than EDP1 and the opponents are better. So even though the coach is watching an individual player, they are seeing that individual play in a much more competitive environment. Even tournaments like Bethesda and Jeff Cup don't pull the number of colleges like an ECNL showcase....and just to be fair, MLS Next showcases attract even more coaches than ECNL...even though, at least locally, ECNL teams and MLS Next teams are very competitive. Some ECNL teams are stronger than MLS Next teams, but it is what it is. Some kids what to play HS so they choose ECNL.

Sounds like a very subjective emotional take here, with a tailored narrative to suit your confirmation bias requirements.

DC United Scouts are seen watching games everywhere in the DMV at games for every league.
Please stop the false equivalence between MLS Next and ECNL. All the knowledgeable objective people know the truth. MLS Next is clearly a cut above ECNL.
If you take the time to look at the rosters of D1 top 25 college soccer teams, it is predominantly by a large percentage, International and MLS Club Academy players, followed by MLS Next.

You are spending that much money and that much time traveling around for a challenge?
Why isn't playing in EDP a challenge?

Soccer isn't basketball or football to US Colleges. There aren't big budgets and resources for scouting. So no, they aren't at ECNL showcases as your narrative suggests, when MLS Next events has one stop quality shopping. (yes, yes, there are surely some quality individual ECNL, EDP, NCSL, NAL, MSI players)

Biases? I'm just stating facts.

Local MLS Next Teams: DC, Baltimore Armour, Bethesda, Alexandria, SYC, and Achilles (but I think they folded or something).
ECNL Teams in VA: Arlington, Loudoun, VA Union, Brave, VDA

In my son's age group, over the past 2 years, my son's team tied and lost by 1 to DC, they are 2 wins, 1 loss vs Armour, 1 win 1 loss vs Bethesda, 1 win vs Alexandria, 1 loss vs SYC, and never played Achilles. In general, lost by 1 to Delco, beat Wake twice, and that's all I can think off of the top of my head. I feel like that's pretty competitive.

And I said that MLS Next attracts far more colleges than ECNL. I agree that when it comes to recruiting and placement, MLS Next is above ECNL.

When playing against local clubs, DCU Academy isn't fielding the strongest 11 on the pitch to win. It's a training practice friendly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what is the scam? I'm not exactly sure who created ECNL but I'm guessing someone saw a need to create a league to consolidate talent that they can pitch to to college coaches that coming to these ECNL events will be worth their while for recruiting...and it worked. My son, who is white, played for a predominately Latino EDP D1 team. Tons of talent on that team. ECNL level kids. Everyone understood that continuing on this team would not provide the platform to be seen by as many college coaches, so my son left and now plays on an ECNL team, so did others. Is ECNL more expensive? Very much so....especially when you add in the travel costs. His three years at ECNL, plus this year, he has had zero white coaches. His team consists of about 1/3 white kids. less than 25% came from the local mega clubs. All the others started out at small clubs like my son. So I don't understand what the issues are here. I do understand that some kids can't afford ECNL and therefore don't get the opportunity, but I don't see that as ECNL's fault.

What's the ROI in spending all that money and time/expenses for years in ECNL?
Isn't MLS Next the big dog and go-to for college recruiting? (after International players)

How is ECNL measurably 'better' for college/pro future than say EDP1... considering scouts recruit players, not teams?

I'm not looking for an ROI. I that THAT"S what wrong with youth sports...parents looking for ROI instead of just wanting their kids to play and challenge themselves.

How is ECNL better for scouts? Look at the side lines? We have DC United and a few other local coaches at almost every home game. When we went to playoffs in the summer, I think we had 25 colleges watching our final game in group play. They watch because the overall quality is better. The teams are better than EDP1 and the opponents are better. So even though the coach is watching an individual player, they are seeing that individual play in a much more competitive environment. Even tournaments like Bethesda and Jeff Cup don't pull the number of colleges like an ECNL showcase....and just to be fair, MLS Next showcases attract even more coaches than ECNL...even though, at least locally, ECNL teams and MLS Next teams are very competitive. Some ECNL teams are stronger than MLS Next teams, but it is what it is. Some kids what to play HS so they choose ECNL.

Sounds like you see the higher probability of getting scouted by college scouts (and recruited) as the R on your I to me.

No my ROI is that my kid is happy. My kid's ROI is probably that he may get seen by more scouts than at EDP.

Are you the Spin-Doctor that politicians go to after a 'video surfaces'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what is the scam? I'm not exactly sure who created ECNL but I'm guessing someone saw a need to create a league to consolidate talent that they can pitch to to college coaches that coming to these ECNL events will be worth their while for recruiting...and it worked. My son, who is white, played for a predominately Latino EDP D1 team. Tons of talent on that team. ECNL level kids. Everyone understood that continuing on this team would not provide the platform to be seen by as many college coaches, so my son left and now plays on an ECNL team, so did others. Is ECNL more expensive? Very much so....especially when you add in the travel costs. His three years at ECNL, plus this year, he has had zero white coaches. His team consists of about 1/3 white kids. less than 25% came from the local mega clubs. All the others started out at small clubs like my son. So I don't understand what the issues are here. I do understand that some kids can't afford ECNL and therefore don't get the opportunity, but I don't see that as ECNL's fault.

What's the ROI in spending all that money and time/expenses for years in ECNL?
Isn't MLS Next the big dog and go-to for college recruiting? (after International players)

How is ECNL measurably 'better' for college/pro future than say EDP1... considering scouts recruit players, not teams?

I'm not looking for an ROI. I that THAT"S what wrong with youth sports...parents looking for ROI instead of just wanting their kids to play and challenge themselves.

How is ECNL better for scouts? Look at the side lines? We have DC United and a few other local coaches at almost every home game. When we went to playoffs in the summer, I think we had 25 colleges watching our final game in group play. They watch because the overall quality is better. The teams are better than EDP1 and the opponents are better. So even though the coach is watching an individual player, they are seeing that individual play in a much more competitive environment. Even tournaments like Bethesda and Jeff Cup don't pull the number of colleges like an ECNL showcase....and just to be fair, MLS Next showcases attract even more coaches than ECNL...even though, at least locally, ECNL teams and MLS Next teams are very competitive. Some ECNL teams are stronger than MLS Next teams, but it is what it is. Some kids what to play HS so they choose ECNL.

Sounds like you see the higher probability of getting scouted by college scouts (and recruited) as the R on your I to me.

No my ROI is that my kid is happy. My kid's ROI is probably that he may get seen by more scouts than at EDP.

Are you the Spin-Doctor that politicians go to after a 'video surfaces'?

My son was thinking about going D1 after 6 years of ECNL, but decided it would be more rewarding to join a frat, do keg stands and streak on the campus lawn/quad/green. As long as junior is happy!

[Anonymous]

Parents be "scamming" themselves.

Most wearing blinders to see what they want to see (granted, many are being mislead and misinformed by people in positions who know better)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here might be making fun, but yes, ECNL discriminates against Hispanic clubs 100%

My son is one of only two white kids an ECNL roster of 19 players. My other son is the only white kid on his MLSNext team.

These are U17 & U19 so I’ve been around awhile.

It's socioeconomic. If you're wealthy and Hispanic/POC, you're good to go. If you occupy the lower echelons, you'll be shut out. And yes, there are a ton of Hispanic families with enough money to slug it out in ECNL. But many majority Hispanic clubs were formed to be affordable options for families who can't pay the hefty fees charged by bigger clubs. So ECNL does discriminate against lower socioeconomic groups, which tend to be POC