Johns Hopkins is a Leader in Undergrad Diversity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an alum and wouldn't send my kid there. It's a definite slog with little school spirit and historically the students are incredibly intense because so many are pre-med. There was a decent amount of cheating, hiding of source documents in the library, etc. (Back in my era when there were required textbooks or readings on-loan in the library kids would check them all out and keep them/destroy them so their classmates couldn't read them). Basically--weird, super competitive stuff was not abnormal.

Also, historically kids would enter having had years and years of advanced high school science and math. My kids are on the "calculus in 11th grade track" at a non-magnet and if you had asked me if I'd feel like they would be prepared for Hopkins my gut would say "no way! They'll be really far behind many of their peers." Interestingly, I don't know how this jives with the heavy minority enrollment because many of these kids will be becoming from under resourced high schools that may not even offer AP classes, Calc BC, etc. How does this group jive with large percentage of kid coming from STEM magnets etc. who are 2 or 3 or 4 years beyond calculus in high school?
Hopkins would seem about the last school on the planet that's a good fit for some of these kids. And lest you say I'm a racist--I work daily with these kids. We have a bunch from very poorly resourced schools in DC and Baltimore who are heading to Hopkins this fall. They're smart but most have never had math beyond pre-calc. How are they going to jive with the 30% of the class that took linear algebra in high school? I'm sure many will do great but some will not. They'll realize that a STEM heavy, slog of a university is a terrible fit. It's just all a bit odd but I'm not the one making decisions at Hopkins.

I'm not a Hopkins grad, but I live a few blocks from campus and I see students all the time. For what it's worth, all the ones who live near me seem to be standard preppy white kids. Your take is very interesting. My impression is that Hopkins is not much fun, but the description of kids hiding resources in the library takes things to another level. I wonder if perhaps a more diverse student body will alter some of the culture in a good way?

Yep, I don't know. Maybe the whole place has mellowed out. My experience was 20+ years ago. I know that it wasn't much fun and that none of my college friends have kids applying there. That's why the whole "no longer considering legacy" thing is a kind of a joke. Most legacy kids are not applying--save for a very select few who want this exact, unique product. It's not a bad place, it's just by no means a "one size fits all" kind of place.
Which is why this super heavy URM recruitment (as the institution's number one priority and now identity) is so weird. I can't stress enough that I wouldn't send my kids with their A's in two years of well taught calculus there. I'd worry they'd get their asses kicked by the TJ and Bronx Science brigade (and more than that--be miserable in the process). I can't imagine being from Ballou or Dunbar in DC (like kids are this year) and trying to make it work after having only pre-calc. I don't get it but I hope it works out for these kids.

20 years ago is an irrelevant datapoint. Before Daniels' weird very recent diversification push, the class was 15%+ legacy.

It was 9 percent legacy, again, read the article.

[Anonymous]

Hopkins was barely top 100 in the new WSJ rankings today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an alum and wouldn't send my kid there. It's a definite slog with little school spirit and historically the students are incredibly intense because so many are pre-med. There was a decent amount of cheating, hiding of source documents in the library, etc. (Back in my era when there were required textbooks or readings on-loan in the library kids would check them all out and keep them/destroy them so their classmates couldn't read them). Basically--weird, super competitive stuff was not abnormal.

Also, historically kids would enter having had years and years of advanced high school science and math. My kids are on the "calculus in 11th grade track" at a non-magnet and if you had asked me if I'd feel like they would be prepared for Hopkins my gut would say "no way! They'll be really far behind many of their peers." Interestingly, I don't know how this jives with the heavy minority enrollment because many of these kids will be becoming from under resourced high schools that may not even offer AP classes, Calc BC, etc. How does this group jive with large percentage of kid coming from STEM magnets etc. who are 2 or 3 or 4 years beyond calculus in high school?
Hopkins would seem about the last school on the planet that's a good fit for some of these kids. And lest you say I'm a racist--I work daily with these kids. We have a bunch from very poorly resourced schools in DC and Baltimore who are heading to Hopkins this fall. They're smart but most have never had math beyond pre-calc. How are they going to jive with the 30% of the class that took linear algebra in high school? I'm sure many will do great but some will not. They'll realize that a STEM heavy, slog of a university is a terrible fit. It's just all a bit odd but I'm not the one making decisions at Hopkins.

I'm not a Hopkins grad, but I live a few blocks from campus and I see students all the time. For what it's worth, all the ones who live near me seem to be standard preppy white kids. Your take is very interesting. My impression is that Hopkins is not much fun, but the description of kids hiding resources in the library takes things to another level. I wonder if perhaps a more diverse student body will alter some of the culture in a good way?

Yep, I don't know. Maybe the whole place has mellowed out. My experience was 20+ years ago. I know that it wasn't much fun and that none of my college friends have kids applying there. That's why the whole "no longer considering legacy" thing is a kind of a joke. Most legacy kids are not applying--save for a very select few who want this exact, unique product. It's not a bad place, it's just by no means a "one size fits all" kind of place.
Which is why this super heavy URM recruitment (as the institution's number one priority and now identity) is so weird. I can't stress enough that I wouldn't send my kids with their A's in two years of well taught calculus there. I'd worry they'd get their asses kicked by the TJ and Bronx Science brigade (and more than that--be miserable in the process). I can't imagine being from Ballou or Dunbar in DC (like kids are this year) and trying to make it work after having only pre-calc. I don't get it but I hope it works out for these kids.

20 years ago is an irrelevant datapoint. Before Daniels' weird very recent diversification push, the class was 15%+ legacy.

It was 9 percent legacy, again, read the article.

12.5% here: https://www.ft.com/content/504c96a7-8c69-4b50-88e5-500ffe0ffe22

And it was certainly higher before

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins was barely top 100 in the new WSJ rankings today.

Ah yes, the same rankings that have Babson as Top 10: https://www.wsj.com/rankings/college-rankings/best-colleges-2024

What else do you read?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins was barely top 100 in the new WSJ rankings today.

Yet 28 in the QS World rankings and likely to move up further in the new U.S. News rankings given its diversity numbers.

[Anonymous]

As the other poster pointed out upthread, Hopkins does a tremendous amount of recruiting of local kids from underperforming Baltimore City Schools, which has certainly boosted these numbers.

But it also calls into question how well Baltimore City Schools can prepare a kid to be competing on a grade curve with kids who went to places like Andover, Exeter, Stuyvesant, TJ, and Bronx Science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an alum and wouldn't send my kid there. It's a definite slog with little school spirit and historically the students are incredibly intense because so many are pre-med. There was a decent amount of cheating, hiding of source documents in the library, etc. (Back in my era when there were required textbooks or readings on-loan in the library kids would check them all out and keep them/destroy them so their classmates couldn't read them). Basically--weird, super competitive stuff was not abnormal.

Also, historically kids would enter having had years and years of advanced high school science and math. My kids are on the "calculus in 11th grade track" at a non-magnet and if you had asked me if I'd feel like they would be prepared for Hopkins my gut would say "no way! They'll be really far behind many of their peers." Interestingly, I don't know how this jives with the heavy minority enrollment because many of these kids will be becoming from under resourced high schools that may not even offer AP classes, Calc BC, etc. How does this group jive with large percentage of kid coming from STEM magnets etc. who are 2 or 3 or 4 years beyond calculus in high school?
Hopkins would seem about the last school on the planet that's a good fit for some of these kids. And lest you say I'm a racist--I work daily with these kids. We have a bunch from very poorly resourced schools in DC and Baltimore who are heading to Hopkins this fall. They're smart but most have never had math beyond pre-calc. How are they going to jive with the 30% of the class that took linear algebra in high school? I'm sure many will do great but some will not. They'll realize that a STEM heavy, slog of a university is a terrible fit. It's just all a bit odd but I'm not the one making decisions at Hopkins.

Another Hopkins grad here and I agree with everything you said here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As the other poster pointed out upthread, Hopkins does a tremendous amount of recruiting of local kids from underperforming Baltimore City Schools, which has certainly boosted these numbers.

But it also calls into question how well Baltimore City Schools can prepare a kid to be competing on a grade curve with kids who went to places like Andover, Exeter, Stuyvesant, TJ, and Bronx Science.

Most of the increase in diversity has come from outreach to schools where Hopkins didn’t traditionally get kids so not Baltimore

Again, so obvious when people are commenting without having read the article and just regurgitating their own imo racist beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an alum and wouldn't send my kid there. It's a definite slog with little school spirit and historically the students are incredibly intense because so many are pre-med. There was a decent amount of cheating, hiding of source documents in the library, etc. (Back in my era when there were required textbooks or readings on-loan in the library kids would check them all out and keep them/destroy them so their classmates couldn't read them). Basically--weird, super competitive stuff was not abnormal.

Also, historically kids would enter having had years and years of advanced high school science and math. My kids are on the "calculus in 11th grade track" at a non-magnet and if you had asked me if I'd feel like they would be prepared for Hopkins my gut would say "no way! They'll be really far behind many of their peers." Interestingly, I don't know how this jives with the heavy minority enrollment because many of these kids will be becoming from under resourced high schools that may not even offer AP classes, Calc BC, etc. How does this group jive with large percentage of kid coming from STEM magnets etc. who are 2 or 3 or 4 years beyond calculus in high school?
Hopkins would seem about the last school on the planet that's a good fit for some of these kids. And lest you say I'm a racist--I work daily with these kids. We have a bunch from very poorly resourced schools in DC and Baltimore who are heading to Hopkins this fall. They're smart but most have never had math beyond pre-calc. How are they going to jive with the 30% of the class that took linear algebra in high school? I'm sure many will do great but some will not. They'll realize that a STEM heavy, slog of a university is a terrible fit. It's just all a bit odd but I'm not the one making decisions at Hopkins.

Another Hopkins grad here and I agree with everything you said here.

A third Hopkins alum and not remotely my experience.

[Anonymous]

And in reverse discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an alum and wouldn't send my kid there. It's a definite slog with little school spirit and historically the students are incredibly intense because so many are pre-med. There was a decent amount of cheating, hiding of source documents in the library, etc. (Back in my era when there were required textbooks or readings on-loan in the library kids would check them all out and keep them/destroy them so their classmates couldn't read them). Basically--weird, super competitive stuff was not abnormal.

Also, historically kids would enter having had years and years of advanced high school science and math. My kids are on the "calculus in 11th grade track" at a non-magnet and if you had asked me if I'd feel like they would be prepared for Hopkins my gut would say "no way! They'll be really far behind many of their peers." Interestingly, I don't know how this jives with the heavy minority enrollment because many of these kids will be becoming from under resourced high schools that may not even offer AP classes, Calc BC, etc. How does this group jive with large percentage of kid coming from STEM magnets etc. who are 2 or 3 or 4 years beyond calculus in high school?
Hopkins would seem about the last school on the planet that's a good fit for some of these kids. And lest you say I'm a racist--I work daily with these kids. We have a bunch from very poorly resourced schools in DC and Baltimore who are heading to Hopkins this fall. They're smart but most have never had math beyond pre-calc. How are they going to jive with the 30% of the class that took linear algebra in high school? I'm sure many will do great but some will not. They'll realize that a STEM heavy, slog of a university is a terrible fit. It's just all a bit odd but I'm not the one making decisions at Hopkins.

I was a grad student (and TA and instructor) there and these are true about the undergrads. We'd have students who would come argue for points (on an incomplete answer) to increase their 99/100 test score. Others who would cheat on a make-up test taken in our department library - boldly in front of a room of graduate students. It's not everyone, but the school does NOTHING about it, so the intense culture prevails. It is much worse among the pre-med and engineering students. My subject was not in these areas but was one that still attracted STEM students. My undergraduate school's leadership was much more proactive on community culture, learning culture, honor code, so this was foreign to me. Having seen the difference, I believe Hopkins leadership could make a big difference if they wanted to change the culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And in reverse discrimination.

This is a fact and why the box is removed. There is no way you can only have 16% Caucasian and not be discriminating against kids by race.

U.S. Census Race and Hispanic Origin:
White alone, percent 75.5%
Black or African American alone, percent(a) 13.6%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a) 1.3%
Asian alone, percent(a) 6.3%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a) 0.3%
Two or More Races, percent 3.0%
Hispanic or Latino, percent(b) 19.1%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent 58.9%

If your kid is white and a legacy, you have snowball's chance in hell that he/she will be admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And in reverse discrimination.

This is a fact and why the box is removed. There is no way you can only have 16% Caucasian and not be discriminating against kids by race.

U.S. Census Race and Hispanic Origin:
White alone, percent 75.5%
Black or African American alone, percent(a) 13.6%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a) 1.3%
Asian alone, percent(a) 6.3%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a) 0.3%
Two or More Races, percent 3.0%
Hispanic or Latino, percent(b) 19.1%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent 58.9%

If your kid is white and a legacy, you have snowball's chance in hell that he/she will be admitted.

In a nutshell, Caucasians represent 75% (or 58.9% with no hispanic/latino) yet only account for 16% at JHU.

[Anonymous]

Hopkins iced legacy admissions several years ago. That is the larger part of the equation.

Alumni here. Still a little salty about that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the other poster pointed out upthread, Hopkins does a tremendous amount of recruiting of local kids from underperforming Baltimore City Schools, which has certainly boosted these numbers.

But it also calls into question how well Baltimore City Schools can prepare a kid to be competing on a grade curve with kids who went to places like Andover, Exeter, Stuyvesant, TJ, and Bronx Science.

Most of the increase in diversity has come from outreach to schools where Hopkins didn’t traditionally get kids so not Baltimore

Again, so obvious when people are commenting without having read the article and just regurgitating their own imo racist beliefs.

Hopkins "didn't traditionally get schools" from Baltimore and DC publics.