Hurricane Idalia—Make it make sense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in a hurricane-prone area. I live on a small island. I have never evacuated before despite whatever orders exist, and don't plan to unless a category 5 is coming directly at me.

As a PP explained before, living with this type of risk is just part of the cost of living in a place like this. With Hurricane Ian last year, the direction of the rainfall made nearly every house on my street suffer minor water damage. The key was it was minor because we were all home to deal with it quickly.

Living with hurricanes at this time of year is just what we do. 90% of the time our choices work out fine.

So if 1/10 times you end up dead in storm surge, that’s okay with you? Just to sit in your living room rather than spend a couple of days a short distance away in hotel or shelter or with friends/family?

What other things in life do you routinely do with those odds against you?

I will never understand why people with means don’t leave.

I totally understand why impoverished people with no means to leave don’t leave, and often die.

For them I have sympathy, for the libertarians and anti science crowd, not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well we can look forward to seeing her on the news and her harrowing tale of survival and complaints about not having any water.

She has four kids, one an infant, and lives on water. It feels reckless and her excuse weak. She’s very smug about it, too.

And she’ll put first responders at risk when they have to save her. Idiots.

So, most people don't know this, but this is exactly what "mandatory evacuation" gets at. When a mandatory evacuation is issued for an area, it’s because things are so serious that the government recognizes it must also leave the affected area. So, you are taking 100% responsibility for you and your family's safety - police, fire and emergency medical services are suspended at that time and while the notice is in place, first responders will not respond in the event of an emergency, as conditions are too dangerous for them.

You won't get a fine or go to jail or anything for ignoring a mandatory evacuation, and legally no one can remove you from your home. A mandatory evacuation just indicates that should you need emergency services, you're not getting them.

[Anonymous]

During the peak of hurricane season, there is almost constantly at least one storm out there that could potentially threaten their home within days, depending on how it moves and develops. If people evacuated every time a hurricane potentially threatened their home, they would be evacuating multiple times per year. That’s not realistic for most people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well we can look forward to seeing her on the news and her harrowing tale of survival and complaints about not having any water.

She has four kids, one an infant, and lives on water. It feels reckless and her excuse weak. She’s very smug about it, too.

And she’ll put first responders at risk when they have to save her. Idiots.

So, most people don't know this, but this is exactly what "mandatory evacuation" gets at. When a mandatory evacuation is issued for an area, it’s because things are so serious that the government recognizes it must also leave the affected area. So, you are taking 100% responsibility for you and your family's safety - police, fire and emergency medical services are suspended at that time and while the notice is in place, first responders will not respond in the event of an emergency, as conditions are too dangerous for them.

You won't get a fine or go to jail or anything for ignoring a mandatory evacuation, and legally no one can remove you from your home. A mandatory evacuation just indicates that should you need emergency services, you're not getting them.

Wow! This is news to me. So first responders are not allowed to enter and help people in mandatory evacuation zones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well we can look forward to seeing her on the news and her harrowing tale of survival and complaints about not having any water.

She has four kids, one an infant, and lives on water. It feels reckless and her excuse weak. She’s very smug about it, too.

And she’ll put first responders at risk when they have to save her. Idiots.

So, most people don't know this, but this is exactly what "mandatory evacuation" gets at. When a mandatory evacuation is issued for an area, it’s because things are so serious that the government recognizes it must also leave the affected area. So, you are taking 100% responsibility for you and your family's safety - police, fire and emergency medical services are suspended at that time and while the notice is in place, first responders will not respond in the event of an emergency, as conditions are too dangerous for them.

You won't get a fine or go to jail or anything for ignoring a mandatory evacuation, and legally no one can remove you from your home. A mandatory evacuation just indicates that should you need emergency services, you're not getting them.

Wow! This is news to me. So first responders are not allowed to enter and help people in mandatory evacuation zones?

Florida resident here.
Yes. Once there are sustained winds of 35 or 40 or 45 MPH (I forget which), then emergency responders will not come to rescue you until after the storm has passed and it is safe for them to do so.

You are also expected to hunker down with at least three days worth of food and water and whatever other supplies you might need.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I grew up in an area where natural disasters were frequent enough that they didn't scare people like they do to people who aren't used to them. So I'm definitely familiar with that "eh it'll be fine" mentality (not that I agree with it)

I’m not debating evacuating or not, but her phrasing is ridiculous. If it turned S last time and avoided her, who is to say this one won’t also turn S and hit her directly?

I also live in Tampa Bay and am not evacuating, and let me explain this to you:

1. Mandatory evacuation orders don't apply to everyone in the area. They apply to people in certain evacuation zones. So evacuation zone A gets the mandatory order first - those are the people closest to the water. There are zones B, C, and D - these are further and further out from the water. You may get a mandatory order for more of the zones, the worse the storm is expected to be. Right now it's just zone A that's got the order in Hillsborough County, where Tampa is. We live in zone X, which means we are never mandated to evacuate, even though our county is under an evacuation order.

If you don't know what zone your friend is in, you don't know if she's been mandated to evacuate - and some people choose not to evacuate even if there is an order for their zone, for good and bad reasons.

2. Your friend is correct that we don't know where the hurricane is going to hit exactly, yet. Hurricanes move, they have uncertain paths. When we were new to Florida, we decided to evacuate for our first hurricane - which looked like it was bearing right down on us. We ended up evacuating across the state - and in the end, the hurricane hit where we'd evacuated to, and when we finally got home we hadn't even lost power here.

3. There are costs and dangers to leaving. The airports are closed and gas is hard to come by. You can only get as far as one tank of gas will get you - and you may end up stuck in traffic on the highway as the hurricane is coming. That is a worst case scenario. More likely, you get a hotel in Orlando - and then the hurricane hits Orlando. Or wherever. You can end up putting yourself in danger, trying to escape danger. For many many people, the safest thing to do is hunker down at home. That is not the case if you are in a trailer park, or a house right on the beach - but if you are inland at all, in a solid house, you usually want to buy flashlights, cookies, and water, and just stay put.

Your friend is making a rational decision - it may not be the decision you'd make, but it's not crazy. People outside of Florida don't really understand what it's like living with hurricanes. My parents still call asking me to go evacuate - and as many times as I tell them that there is nowhere to evacuate to, because you don't know where the hurricane is actually going to hit and you can only get as far as one tank of gas will take you, they still have to say it. So you're just thinking this through like everyone outside of Florida is thinking this through - but your friend is thinking it through like someone who actually lives with these storms.

Thank you for taking the time to write this explanation. I’ve never lived anywhere prone to hurricanes, so this definitely gave me a better understanding.

+1 I found this very educational!

+2

— a girl from Kansas who knows a lot about tornadoes and hail

I'm the one who wrote that treatise and thank you - I'm glad it was helpful! I would love to understand living with tornadoes better because I find them TERRIFYING in (what seems to me) their unpredictability. Should I start a new thread for questions - such as, how much are you always thinking about the possibility of a tornado coming through? How do you prepare for the possibility??

Also, OP, with so much wood knocked - it looks like Tampa Bay is going to come out of this all right

I dont know what's going on where your friend is - but here in St Pete we're starting to feel a little better about how this is looking. We won't really know till we know, but - this is better than what we were worried about. I hope your friend is going to be fine - and her house, too.

I wish I understood storm surge. They make a big deal about it but it's kind of meaningless if you don't live near the water. The thing that catches most of guard is how far inland the water will come. The only people who seems to know about that are the locals.

I live in north Florida. I am not in the path of this one.
Storm surge -- If you live more than five miles from the water, you are safe from storm surge. If you live 2-5 miles from the water you are probably safe from storm surge.
The dramatic photos you always see on the news after storms are from the storm surge. It means a gigantic wave of water -- or 20 -- came along from the gulf or the ocean and went way inland where waves don't usually go.

My point is that storm surge is expressed as a number that would be meaningless to me if I was visiting Fl. It doesn't tell you where the water is going to go ie how far inland which is how a lot of people get in trouble. I find all the explanations of it kind of useless if you aren't on the water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend, who lives in the Tampa area and are under mandatory evacuation orders:

“We aren’t evacuating this time. This storm is due to make landfall N of here. We evacuated last year when the storm was set to hit us and it ended up turning S of us.”


😳 Make it make sense!

Where is the nearest open shelter?

If it’s close to her, she’s safe enough.

I used to live in FL, and people outside of there wouldn’t understand our not moving. But, they didn’t get that people were evacuating TO us. We were safe further inland where we were.

Again, look up her nearest shelter. Those are quite safe. Also, ensure she is not staying in a trailer. A cinder block home (standard construction) is fine.

This is NOT how it works-cinder blocks don't protect you from storm surge! BTW Pinellas is getting flooding as we speak. Hopefully the non-evacuating fool and her kids are ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friend, who lives in the Tampa area and are under mandatory evacuation orders:

“We aren’t evacuating this time. This storm is due to make landfall N of here. We evacuated last year when the storm was set to hit us and it ended up turning S of us.”


😳 Make it make sense!

My uncle is also in the area. His house is directly on the water but they are protected by some barrier islands. He says that the storms always turn and that the house has not flooded in the 80 years it has been there. That said, my aunt always makes him evacuate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well we can look forward to seeing her on the news and her harrowing tale of survival and complaints about not having any water.

She has four kids, one an infant, and lives on water. It feels reckless and her excuse weak. She’s very smug about it, too.

And she’ll put first responders at risk when they have to save her. Idiots.

So, most people don't know this, but this is exactly what "mandatory evacuation" gets at. When a mandatory evacuation is issued for an area, it’s because things are so serious that the government recognizes it must also leave the affected area. So, you are taking 100% responsibility for you and your family's safety - police, fire and emergency medical services are suspended at that time and while the notice is in place, first responders will not respond in the event of an emergency, as conditions are too dangerous for them.

You won't get a fine or go to jail or anything for ignoring a mandatory evacuation, and legally no one can remove you from your home. A mandatory evacuation just indicates that should you need emergency services, you're not getting them.

That is only while the mandatory evacuation is in place and while the worst conditions are moving through. I work in emergency management. I have personally sent helicopters to peoples homes to rescue them. So don’t act like first responders are putting their lives at risk for idiots who don’t evacuate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well we can look forward to seeing her on the news and her harrowing tale of survival and complaints about not having any water.

She has four kids, one an infant, and lives on water. It feels reckless and her excuse weak. She’s very smug about it, too.

And she’ll put first responders at risk when they have to save her. Idiots.

So, most people don't know this, but this is exactly what "mandatory evacuation" gets at. When a mandatory evacuation is issued for an area, it’s because things are so serious that the government recognizes it must also leave the affected area. So, you are taking 100% responsibility for you and your family's safety - police, fire and emergency medical services are suspended at that time and while the notice is in place, first responders will not respond in the event of an emergency, as conditions are too dangerous for them.

You won't get a fine or go to jail or anything for ignoring a mandatory evacuation, and legally no one can remove you from your home. A mandatory evacuation just indicates that should you need emergency services, you're not getting them.

That is only while the mandatory evacuation is in place and while the worst conditions are moving through. I work in emergency management. I have personally sent helicopters to peoples homes to rescue them. So don’t act like first responders are putting their lives at risk for idiots who don’t evacuate.

*arent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend, who lives in the Tampa area and are under mandatory evacuation orders:

“We aren’t evacuating this time. This storm is due to make landfall N of here. We evacuated last year when the storm was set to hit us and it ended up turning S of us.”


😳 Make it make sense!

My uncle is also in the area. His house is directly on the water but they are protected by some barrier islands. He says that the storms always turn and that the house has not flooded in the 80 years it has been there. That said, my aunt always makes him evacuate.

Sorry, but you’re not completely protected by barrier islands when there is a 20 foot storm surge.

[Anonymous]

Idalia is making landfall as a category 4 Hurricane with sustained winds of 156mph.

I hope that the end is quick and painless for the people in the evacuation zones who chose to stay behind and are met with 16+ feet of storm surge - unsurvivable. A few days at Motel 6, totally survivable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Idalia is making landfall as a category 4 Hurricane with sustained winds of 156mph.

I hope that the end is quick and painless for the people in the evacuation zones who chose to stay behind and are met with 16+ feet of storm surge - unsurvivable. A few days at Motel 6, totally survivable.

As someone who has experienced 6 hurricanes over a Cat 3 (and probably 15 under that), you aren’t considering that at some point we don’t have the motivation to start over from nothing again. Insurance doesn’t make you whole. Friends don’t always come back from evacuation. Sometimes we’re just willing to risk it and understand that may be the end - but we’re too tired to do it all again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Idalia is making landfall as a category 4 Hurricane with sustained winds of 156mph.

I hope that the end is quick and painless for the people in the evacuation zones who chose to stay behind and are met with 16+ feet of storm surge - unsurvivable. A few days at Motel 6, totally survivable.

By the way, Idalia is a name of Greek origin which means ‘behold the sun.’ Someone at the World Meteorological Organization had a sense of humor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Idalia is making landfall as a category 4 Hurricane with sustained winds of 156mph.

I hope that the end is quick and painless for the people in the evacuation zones who chose to stay behind and are met with 16+ feet of storm surge - unsurvivable. A few days at Motel 6, totally survivable.

As someone who has experienced 6 hurricanes over a Cat 3 (and probably 15 under that), you aren’t considering that at some point we don’t have the motivation to start over from nothing again. Insurance doesn’t make you whole. Friends don’t always come back from evacuation. Sometimes we’re just willing to risk it and understand that may be the end - but we’re too tired to do it all again.

Hey, I *do* get that. I don’t live in a big hurricane zone, but my family lost a lot in Carol ~70 years ago and the memories persisted.

We don’t like to embrace death in this culture, so it’s hard to accept when people do. But I can see why some folks would just want to leave it to fate. I saw many interviews with impoverished and working class people who were devastated by Ian and could not imagine the stress of trying to rebuild a life after something like that with no real means.