Supreme Court Is Asked to Hear a New Admissions Case on Race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fact that TJ students are now going to exist in such an environment from an earlier age is deeply frightening to parents - and to conservative politicians - who are dependent on the narrative that their race is superior because of their priorities and parenting styles. And you see that conversation peppered around this board as justification for why there were more Asian students admitted to the Class of 2024 than there had been Black students admitted in TJ's 33-year history to that point. Because "Black kids are lazy", "Black parents don't care about education", "Black people spend all their money on bling and shoes and video games", etc etc etc.

I saw a stem activity at our school, more than 50 kids every year. Number of blacks 0 or 1. This was when the fee for participating was $0.

Good for your school. Our kids' MS has only one even remotely stem activity- math club. That sounds great, except it's where students who are behind can go to get tutored by a staff member. I guess our kids deserve blame for not participating in more STEM clubs even though they don't exist

NP, but the point that the PP was trying to make was that demand for STEM varies across demographics, so "lack of opportunity" may not be the driver of low URM applicants to TJ.

I do think that there are plenty of bright young scholars across all of fairfax's elementary schools. But if these kids' families don't value (or have time for) STEM activities, many of them will be lagging in demonstrative STEM abilities that other kids will have when TJ applications come due.

Low numbers of applicants from underrepresented groups can historically be attributed to a few things:

1) Lack of awareness of TJ within the community. There are communities in Northern Virginia where families attend TJ open houses and information sessions in the early stages of pregnancy. Because very few students from underrepresented groups have ever attended TJ in the past, there isn't any institutional knowledge about how to best prepare your child for the TJ application process.

2) A persistent narrative - propagated by some of the more pernicious individuals on fora like this one - that TJ is only for Asian and white kids. TJ was hard enough for me as the only kid from my middle school - I can't imagine what it would have been like if I were the only kid from my middle school AND there wasn't anyone there who looked anything like me or shared any of my experiences.

3) Implicit bias from local school employees submitting to the idea that if you don't look like kids who have historically gone to TJ, you shouldn't be encouraged to view it as an option or to be identified as capable of advanced studies.

4) The cost to the family of going to a school like TJ. If you're going to get the full experience at TJ, that generally means that you are staying after school with some regularity to participate in TJ's phenomenal extracurriculars that are not captured by the 8th period program, meaning someone is driving you home after school. The new admissions process has, out of thin air, created carpools to areas of the county where none existed previously, which greatly lowers the level of sacrifice that individual families have to bear to send their kids to TJ - sacrifices that are harder to make when you are economically disadvantaged.

There are many drivers of low application numbers to TJ from underrepresented groups - they are not a monolith. I believe that the greatest driver is the underlying narrative that TJ isn't for them - and now that narrative is being smashed to bits. While we didn't see application numbers by demographic in the last admissions cycle, the hope is that we'll actually see representative numbers of applications from all demographic groups and that as a result, the total applicant pool will only grow stronger.

The extended naval-gazing on display in this post is why many fervently wish FCPS will one day come to its senses and do away with a “special” magnet school, which increasingly seems to exist primarily so certain TJHSST alumni can feel good about themselves, and focus instead on meeting the needs of all FCPS kids, including the 96% or so of high school students who don’t attend TJ.

False choice. Want to talk about navel-gazing (which is the actual phrase)… try continually dreaming about a school system shutting down its flagship and in the process pissing off thousands of people in multiple jurisdictions and creating myriad logistical issues out of thin air - all while doing incalculable damage to the general prestige of living in Northern Virginia.

Hilarious if it weren’t pathetic.

Seems like you’re doubling down on the narcissism there. FCPS isn’t a state university system, and it has no “flagship.” It does have one high school that chews up a ridiculous amount of time and attention to placate various local politicians and self-centered TJ parents and alumni.

One can think of few things that would do more to restore the prestige of living in this area than to recommit to across-the-board excellence in FCPS, rather than engage in constant social engineering over the admissions policy at a single school. TJ has become a punching bag and, even worse, an inexcusable time suck for FCPS. Time to put it out of its misery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fact that TJ students are now going to exist in such an environment from an earlier age is deeply frightening to parents - and to conservative politicians - who are dependent on the narrative that their race is superior because of their priorities and parenting styles. And you see that conversation peppered around this board as justification for why there were more Asian students admitted to the Class of 2024 than there had been Black students admitted in TJ's 33-year history to that point. Because "Black kids are lazy", "Black parents don't care about education", "Black people spend all their money on bling and shoes and video games", etc etc etc.

I saw a stem activity at our school, more than 50 kids every year. Number of blacks 0 or 1. This was when the fee for participating was $0.

Good for your school. Our kids' MS has only one even remotely stem activity- math club. That sounds great, except it's where students who are behind can go to get tutored by a staff member. I guess our kids deserve blame for not participating in more STEM clubs even though they don't exist

NP, but the point that the PP was trying to make was that demand for STEM varies across demographics, so "lack of opportunity" may not be the driver of low URM applicants to TJ.

I do think that there are plenty of bright young scholars across all of fairfax's elementary schools. But if these kids' families don't value (or have time for) STEM activities, many of them will be lagging in demonstrative STEM abilities that other kids will have when TJ applications come due.

Low numbers of applicants from underrepresented groups can historically be attributed to a few things:

1) Lack of awareness of TJ within the community. There are communities in Northern Virginia where families attend TJ open houses and information sessions in the early stages of pregnancy. Because very few students from underrepresented groups have ever attended TJ in the past, there isn't any institutional knowledge about how to best prepare your child for the TJ application process.

2) A persistent narrative - propagated by some of the more pernicious individuals on fora like this one - that TJ is only for Asian and white kids. TJ was hard enough for me as the only kid from my middle school - I can't imagine what it would have been like if I were the only kid from my middle school AND there wasn't anyone there who looked anything like me or shared any of my experiences.

3) Implicit bias from local school employees submitting to the idea that if you don't look like kids who have historically gone to TJ, you shouldn't be encouraged to view it as an option or to be identified as capable of advanced studies.

4) The cost to the family of going to a school like TJ. If you're going to get the full experience at TJ, that generally means that you are staying after school with some regularity to participate in TJ's phenomenal extracurriculars that are not captured by the 8th period program, meaning someone is driving you home after school. The new admissions process has, out of thin air, created carpools to areas of the county where none existed previously, which greatly lowers the level of sacrifice that individual families have to bear to send their kids to TJ - sacrifices that are harder to make when you are economically disadvantaged.

There are many drivers of low application numbers to TJ from underrepresented groups - they are not a monolith. I believe that the greatest driver is the underlying narrative that TJ isn't for them - and now that narrative is being smashed to bits. While we didn't see application numbers by demographic in the last admissions cycle, the hope is that we'll actually see representative numbers of applications from all demographic groups and that as a result, the total applicant pool will only grow stronger.

The extended naval-gazing on display in this post is why many fervently wish FCPS will one day come to its senses and do away with a “special” magnet school, which increasingly seems to exist primarily so certain TJHSST alumni can feel good about themselves, and focus instead on meeting the needs of all FCPS kids, including the 96% or so of high school students who don’t attend TJ.

False choice. Want to talk about navel-gazing (which is the actual phrase)… try continually dreaming about a school system shutting down its flagship and in the process pissing off thousands of people in multiple jurisdictions and creating myriad logistical issues out of thin air - all while doing incalculable damage to the general prestige of living in Northern Virginia.

Hilarious if it weren’t pathetic.

Seems like you’re doubling down on the narcissism there. FCPS isn’t a state university system, and it has no “flagship.” It does have one high school that chews up a ridiculous amount of time and attention to placate various local politicians and self-centered TJ parents and alumni.

One can think of few things that would do more to restore the prestige of living in this area than to recommit to across-the-board excellence in FCPS, rather than engage in constant social engineering over the admissions policy at a single school. TJ has become a punching bag and, even worse, an inexcusable time suck for FCPS. Time to put it out of its misery.

The allure of TJ attracts many families to FCPS. Many families with degrees from top universities who come to the DMV have a choice between DC, Maryland, and Virginia. In our case, we chose FCPS specifically because of TJ and it's reputation of having the highest SAT scores and highest number of National Merit scholars. If TJ did not exist, we would probably have bought a house in Maryland.

So TJ is more than a social experiment, and I would argue that TJ has boosted the prestige of Fairfax county over the last 20-30 years. And will continue to boost the prestige unless the SAT/PSAT stats fall

[Anonymous]

Agree. The only reason people think of closing such an outstanding school is "too many Asians," who make some others look dumb.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fact that TJ students are now going to exist in such an environment from an earlier age is deeply frightening to parents - and to conservative politicians - who are dependent on the narrative that their race is superior because of their priorities and parenting styles. And you see that conversation peppered around this board as justification for why there were more Asian students admitted to the Class of 2024 than there had been Black students admitted in TJ's 33-year history to that point. Because "Black kids are lazy", "Black parents don't care about education", "Black people spend all their money on bling and shoes and video games", etc etc etc.

I saw a stem activity at our school, more than 50 kids every year. Number of blacks 0 or 1. This was when the fee for participating was $0.

Good for your school. Our kids' MS has only one even remotely stem activity- math club. That sounds great, except it's where students who are behind can go to get tutored by a staff member. I guess our kids deserve blame for not participating in more STEM clubs even though they don't exist

NP, but the point that the PP was trying to make was that demand for STEM varies across demographics, so "lack of opportunity" may not be the driver of low URM applicants to TJ.

I do think that there are plenty of bright young scholars across all of fairfax's elementary schools. But if these kids' families don't value (or have time for) STEM activities, many of them will be lagging in demonstrative STEM abilities that other kids will have when TJ applications come due.

Low numbers of applicants from underrepresented groups can historically be attributed to a few things:

1) Lack of awareness of TJ within the community. There are communities in Northern Virginia where families attend TJ open houses and information sessions in the early stages of pregnancy. Because very few students from underrepresented groups have ever attended TJ in the past, there isn't any institutional knowledge about how to best prepare your child for the TJ application process.

2) A persistent narrative - propagated by some of the more pernicious individuals on fora like this one - that TJ is only for Asian and white kids. TJ was hard enough for me as the only kid from my middle school - I can't imagine what it would have been like if I were the only kid from my middle school AND there wasn't anyone there who looked anything like me or shared any of my experiences.

3) Implicit bias from local school employees submitting to the idea that if you don't look like kids who have historically gone to TJ, you shouldn't be encouraged to view it as an option or to be identified as capable of advanced studies.

4) The cost to the family of going to a school like TJ. If you're going to get the full experience at TJ, that generally means that you are staying after school with some regularity to participate in TJ's phenomenal extracurriculars that are not captured by the 8th period program, meaning someone is driving you home after school. The new admissions process has, out of thin air, created carpools to areas of the county where none existed previously, which greatly lowers the level of sacrifice that individual families have to bear to send their kids to TJ - sacrifices that are harder to make when you are economically disadvantaged.

There are many drivers of low application numbers to TJ from underrepresented groups - they are not a monolith. I believe that the greatest driver is the underlying narrative that TJ isn't for them - and now that narrative is being smashed to bits. While we didn't see application numbers by demographic in the last admissions cycle, the hope is that we'll actually see representative numbers of applications from all demographic groups and that as a result, the total applicant pool will only grow stronger.

The extended naval-gazing on display in this post is why many fervently wish FCPS will one day come to its senses and do away with a “special” magnet school, which increasingly seems to exist primarily so certain TJHSST alumni can feel good about themselves, and focus instead on meeting the needs of all FCPS kids, including the 96% or so of high school students who don’t attend TJ.

False choice. Want to talk about navel-gazing (which is the actual phrase)… try continually dreaming about a school system shutting down its flagship and in the process pissing off thousands of people in multiple jurisdictions and creating myriad logistical issues out of thin air - all while doing incalculable damage to the general prestige of living in Northern Virginia.

Hilarious if it weren’t pathetic.

Seems like you’re doubling down on the narcissism there. FCPS isn’t a state university system, and it has no “flagship.” It does have one high school that chews up a ridiculous amount of time and attention to placate various local politicians and self-centered TJ parents and alumni.

One can think of few things that would do more to restore the prestige of living in this area than to recommit to across-the-board excellence in FCPS, rather than engage in constant social engineering over the admissions policy at a single school. TJ has become a punching bag and, even worse, an inexcusable time suck for FCPS. Time to put it out of its misery.

The allure of TJ attracts many families to FCPS. Many families with degrees from top universities who come to the DMV have a choice between DC, Maryland, and Virginia. In our case, we chose FCPS specifically because of TJ and it's reputation of having the highest SAT scores and highest number of National Merit scholars. If TJ did not exist, we would probably have bought a house in Maryland.

So TJ is more than a social experiment, and I would argue that TJ has boosted the prestige of Fairfax county over the last 20-30 years. And will continue to boost the prestige unless the SAT/PSAT stats fall

[Anonymous]

So how much money is FCPS now spending to prepare its legal strategy if the Supreme Court agrees to hear the case? It’s such a money pit for FCPS now.

And those NMSFs at TJ would just get spread around to more schools if the magnet program were closed.

[Anonymous]

I hope plaintiffs have to pay the legal fees when they lose.

Again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So how much money is FCPS now spending to prepare its legal strategy if the Supreme Court agrees to hear the case? It’s such a money pit for FCPS now.

And those NMSFs at TJ would just get spread around to more schools if the magnet program were closed.

which would decrease the prestige of Fairfax county. As a former NMS who went to school in a well-to-do county with 30+ NMS per year but was the only one in my high school, I definitely care more about the number of NMS in the high school rather than in the county when choosing neighborhoods for my kids to grow up in. In a world where TJ doesn't exist, my kids are going to a W school or Poolesville.

[Anonymous]

I think Harvard was ordered to pay the legal fees when it lost the Affirmative Action case.

Has Harvard paid yet?

Anonymous wrote:I hope plaintiffs have to pay the legal fees when they lose.

Again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So how much money is FCPS now spending to prepare its legal strategy if the Supreme Court agrees to hear the case? It’s such a money pit for FCPS now.

And those NMSFs at TJ would just get spread around to more schools if the magnet program were closed.

Don Verrilli is working pro bono on behalf of FCPS in this case. The Supreme Court has not yet granted certiorari and so we don’t yet know if the case will even be heard at that level. Because of the weakness of the facts and the potential unintended consequences of a decision in favor of the Coalition for businesses, we may see this case and similar ones remanded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top" students in some FCPS schools are "bottom" students in others.

Anonymous wrote:Playing arm-chair lawyer here:

To prove a policy has disparate impact, plaintiff has to prove:
(1) establish an adverse impact caused by the practice
(2) does the practice have legitimate justification
(3) Is there any less discriminatory alternative.

I'd think allocated seats for top students in every FCPS school would be a solid practice.

This is just plainly, manifestly false.

It was worth a try!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fact that TJ students are now going to exist in such an environment from an earlier age is deeply frightening to parents - and to conservative politicians - who are dependent on the narrative that their race is superior because of their priorities and parenting styles. And you see that conversation peppered around this board as justification for why there were more Asian students admitted to the Class of 2024 than there had been Black students admitted in TJ's 33-year history to that point. Because "Black kids are lazy", "Black parents don't care about education", "Black people spend all their money on bling and shoes and video games", etc etc etc.

I saw a stem activity at our school, more than 50 kids every year. Number of blacks 0 or 1. This was when the fee for participating was $0.

Good for your school. Our kids' MS has only one even remotely stem activity- math club. That sounds great, except it's where students who are behind can go to get tutored by a staff member. I guess our kids deserve blame for not participating in more STEM clubs even though they don't exist

NP, but the point that the PP was trying to make was that demand for STEM varies across demographics, so "lack of opportunity" may not be the driver of low URM applicants to TJ.

I do think that there are plenty of bright young scholars across all of fairfax's elementary schools. But if these kids' families don't value (or have time for) STEM activities, many of them will be lagging in demonstrative STEM abilities that other kids will have when TJ applications come due.

Low numbers of applicants from underrepresented groups can historically be attributed to a few things:

1) Lack of awareness of TJ within the community. There are communities in Northern Virginia where families attend TJ open houses and information sessions in the early stages of pregnancy. Because very few students from underrepresented groups have ever attended TJ in the past, there isn't any institutional knowledge about how to best prepare your child for the TJ application process.

2) A persistent narrative - propagated by some of the more pernicious individuals on fora like this one - that TJ is only for Asian and white kids. TJ was hard enough for me as the only kid from my middle school - I can't imagine what it would have been like if I were the only kid from my middle school AND there wasn't anyone there who looked anything like me or shared any of my experiences.

3) Implicit bias from local school employees submitting to the idea that if you don't look like kids who have historically gone to TJ, you shouldn't be encouraged to view it as an option or to be identified as capable of advanced studies.

4) The cost to the family of going to a school like TJ. If you're going to get the full experience at TJ, that generally means that you are staying after school with some regularity to participate in TJ's phenomenal extracurriculars that are not captured by the 8th period program, meaning someone is driving you home after school. The new admissions process has, out of thin air, created carpools to areas of the county where none existed previously, which greatly lowers the level of sacrifice that individual families have to bear to send their kids to TJ - sacrifices that are harder to make when you are economically disadvantaged.

There are many drivers of low application numbers to TJ from underrepresented groups - they are not a monolith. I believe that the greatest driver is the underlying narrative that TJ isn't for them - and now that narrative is being smashed to bits. While we didn't see application numbers by demographic in the last admissions cycle, the hope is that we'll actually see representative numbers of applications from all demographic groups and that as a result, the total applicant pool will only grow stronger.

All valid points. The number of Asian American applications year to year has stalled at a level, and it is mostly the middle to upper middle class families, and rarely from the ones below poverty line. The economically disadvantaged Asian Americans are not even aware of TJ, and lack the wherewithal to guide their kids toward proper basic education, let alone stem specific. As the biggest barrier is the lack of English language proficiency, FCPS should make every effort to spread the message about STEM and TJ opportunities not only in Spanish language, but all 60+ languages familar among impoverished Asian Americans. It does not make sense to conduct fancy powerpoint sessions at schools, when the hardworking uneducated Asian American parents are working in the restaurants as dishwashers, scrubbing clothes at drycleaners, restocking grocery stores, driving delivery trucks, etc... FCPS should recruit volunteers to distribute translated TJ brochures by visiting the work places of the impoverished Asian Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The fact that TJ students are now going to exist in such an environment from an earlier age is deeply frightening to parents - and to conservative politicians - who are dependent on the narrative that their race is superior because of their priorities and parenting styles. And you see that conversation peppered around this board as justification for why there were more Asian students admitted to the Class of 2024 than there had been Black students admitted in TJ's 33-year history to that point. Because "Black kids are lazy", "Black parents don't care about education", "Black people spend all their money on bling and shoes and video games", etc etc etc.

I saw a stem activity at our school, more than 50 kids every year. Number of blacks 0 or 1. This was when the fee for participating was $0.

Good for your school. Our kids' MS has only one even remotely stem activity- math club. That sounds great, except it's where students who are behind can go to get tutored by a staff member. I guess our kids deserve blame for not participating in more STEM clubs even though they don't exist

NP, but the point that the PP was trying to make was that demand for STEM varies across demographics, so "lack of opportunity" may not be the driver of low URM applicants to TJ.

I do think that there are plenty of bright young scholars across all of fairfax's elementary schools. But if these kids' families don't value (or have time for) STEM activities, many of them will be lagging in demonstrative STEM abilities that other kids will have when TJ applications come due.

Low numbers of applicants from underrepresented groups can historically be attributed to a few things:

1) Lack of awareness of TJ within the community. There are communities in Northern Virginia where families attend TJ open houses and information sessions in the early stages of pregnancy. Because very few students from underrepresented groups have ever attended TJ in the past, there isn't any institutional knowledge about how to best prepare your child for the TJ application process.

2) A persistent narrative - propagated by some of the more pernicious individuals on fora like this one - that TJ is only for Asian and white kids. TJ was hard enough for me as the only kid from my middle school - I can't imagine what it would have been like if I were the only kid from my middle school AND there wasn't anyone there who looked anything like me or shared any of my experiences.

3) Implicit bias from local school employees submitting to the idea that if you don't look like kids who have historically gone to TJ, you shouldn't be encouraged to view it as an option or to be identified as capable of advanced studies.

4) The cost to the family of going to a school like TJ. If you're going to get the full experience at TJ, that generally means that you are staying after school with some regularity to participate in TJ's phenomenal extracurriculars that are not captured by the 8th period program, meaning someone is driving you home after school. The new admissions process has, out of thin air, created carpools to areas of the county where none existed previously, which greatly lowers the level of sacrifice that individual families have to bear to send their kids to TJ - sacrifices that are harder to make when you are economically disadvantaged.

There are many drivers of low application numbers to TJ from underrepresented groups - they are not a monolith. I believe that the greatest driver is the underlying narrative that TJ isn't for them - and now that narrative is being smashed to bits. While we didn't see application numbers by demographic in the last admissions cycle, the hope is that we'll actually see representative numbers of applications from all demographic groups and that as a result, the total applicant pool will only grow stronger.

All valid points. The number of Asian American applications year to year has stalled at a level, and it is mostly the middle to upper middle class families, and rarely from the ones below poverty line. The economically disadvantaged Asian Americans are not even aware of TJ, and lack the wherewithal to guide their kids toward proper basic education, let alone stem specific. As the biggest barrier is the lack of English language proficiency, FCPS should make every effort to spread the message about STEM and TJ opportunities not only in Spanish language, but all 60+ languages familar among impoverished Asian Americans. It does not make sense to conduct fancy powerpoint sessions at schools, when the hardworking uneducated Asian American parents are working in the restaurants as dishwashers, scrubbing clothes at drycleaners, restocking grocery stores, driving delivery trucks, etc... FCPS should recruit volunteers to distribute translated TJ brochures by visiting the work places of the impoverished Asian Americans.

PP. This is all 100% true and would hopefully have been in the purview of the Outreach Specialist in Admissions when that was a full-time position. As it isn't any longer, that may be more complicated. But either way, FCPS' focus on attracting low-income families to TJ should certainly not be limited to Black and Hispanic students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One can think of few things that would do more to restore the prestige of living in this area than to recommit to across-the-board excellence in FCPS, rather than engage in constant social engineering over the admissions policy at a single school. TJ has become a punching bag and, even worse, an inexcusable time suck for FCPS. Time to put it out of its misery.

These are related. The decline in the rest of FCPS comes from the same attitude and ideas that has produced a change in TJ admissions. Reducing accelerated math for example. Not sure how long they have been doing this bad reading curriculum.

[Anonymous]

TJ families are narcissists of the highest order who’d gladly see every other FCPS school decline as long as they can still sport their bumper stickers and yard signs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ families are narcissists of the highest order who’d gladly see every other FCPS school decline as long as they can still sport their bumper stickers and yard signs.

Many fcps family cars display bumper stickers, showcasing their child's involvement in school sports, academic honor roll achievements, travel league logos, etc. Many go unnoticed, but the fact that TJ sticker particularly unsettles you, means that you are simply jealous and envy them . It isn't what those families have that bothers you, but you have convinced yourself that there is noway you'll ever be a TJ parent. And so, you find yourself resenting them and nurturing negative feelings. Feelings of jealousy and envy arise from recognizing what others possess that you currently lack, often masked by a denial of your own longing for those things.

Do some self reflection. Ask yourself: Why am I foolishly picking on only TJ bumber stickers and not others, making assumptions that all TJ families are narcissists when you know none, assuming that TJ families want all fcps schools to decline when you heard none say it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ families are narcissists of the highest order who’d gladly see every other FCPS school decline as long as they can still sport their bumper stickers and yard signs.

This is the case for a relatively small number of TJ families. You can tell who they are when you catch them gatekeeping access to TJ to keep it within their community and theirs alone.