What exactly makes someone a “striver,” and why such disdain for them?

[Anonymous]

I guess you could call me “new money”, child of first gen immigrants. I couldn’t give a rat’s a$$ about “old money” - not even sure what the term connotes. I live my life to please my family, share my good fortune with the less fortunate but do nothing to fit in with anyone or any social class. “Old money” are the represent the insecure trying to hold on to something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s more disdain for people who come off as try-hards. They want to do all they can to come off a certain way and fit in socially and it seems desperate.

Yeah I think it's just this. People who only are kind/friendly to those they perceive as higher-status socially because they want to get in with an upper-crust friend group. Combined with being standoffish/borderline rude to those they perceive as beneath them.

This. It's about how they use and treat people base don their perceived wealth and social standing. It has nothing to do with someone wanting to earn more money than they grew up with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess you could call me “new money”, child of first gen immigrants. I couldn’t give a rat’s a$$ about “old money” - not even sure what the term connotes. I live my life to please my family, share my good fortune with the less fortunate but do nothing to fit in with anyone or any social class. “Old money” are the represent the insecure trying to hold on to something.

Again striver and new money are not the same. Read the responses in this thread.

[Anonymous]

I look askance at strivers because they are deeply insecure and seem to laser focused upon aligning themselves with the “right” neighborhood, social groups, schools, sports and activities. No decision is made without carefully considered social engineering.

As yes, it’s always new money types who are this desperate. They constantly name drop, are ostentatious and blatantly obvious about their country club, their vacations, their charitable contributions, their social events.

I’ve heard it said that old money whispers while new money screams.

My SIL is one of the wealthiest people I know, yet lives quietly but lavishly. Volunteers, has a non remarkable job, small circle of childhood friends, financially supports a charity that helped a family member, values her privacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess you could call me “new money”, child of first gen immigrants. I couldn’t give a rat’s a$$ about “old money” - not even sure what the term connotes. I live my life to please my family, share my good fortune with the less fortunate but do nothing to fit in with anyone or any social class. “Old money” are the represent the insecure trying to hold on to something.

Again striver and new money are not the same. Read the responses in this thread.

I can certainly read and interpret. There is some ambiguity with what it means. I You sound like “old money” (whatever that means) born on 3rd base, and barely crawling to home base.

[Anonymous]

I once went to a dinner where one attendee immediately asked people where they worked at. That’s a striver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear a lot of hate in this forum about “strivers.” What is it exactly that makes someone a striver? The fact that you want to enjoy the fruits of your labor by buying a pretty house or nice car? Is it something more sinister like refusing to associate with people who don’t run with the right crowd?

And why do we hate this strivers? I hear the term associated a lot with new money. I don’t see anything wrong with wanting to better your financial situation. And for the record, a lot of people from old money families came into that money from slave holders, factory owners before the days of safe working conditions, large plantations, etc. Frankly, I’d rather be a self made striver than have had great grands that got rich off the blood and toil of suppressed classes.

it is a class issue. The sort who disdains "stirvers" are the next generation of the old money who realize they did not achieve nearly what the "stivers" achieved. Because they were born on third base and never had to work that hard, and will always wonder if they could have made it without such a boost. So the one thing they can horde over a striver is access to whatever social or professional society they control. But that's the inconsistency...somehow "striving" to get into the upper tier is gauche while "striving" to stay there (or keep others out) is not. It's like Tom Wambsgans - he wanted in, and was ridiculed for it, but the moronic Roy offspring were working as hard as they could to stay where they were born. Same, same.

That said, the other issue I see, as a striver, is a code of conduct that the old money has and that the strivers usually do not have. The unwritten rules, the double standards and weird behaviors that one gets from growing up with money. No one speaks directly or honestly, no one likes to answer tough questions, no one seems comfotable "proving" themselves, unless it is on a golf course, or paddle tennis court, or some other weird rich passtime. Strivers made their bones challenging the norms, so they're a square peg. And there is a casualness to it, no one seems to be worried or in a hurry because they're already a part of the club, and most strivers aren't built that way (because if they sat back and didn't worry about achieving, they'd still be grinding it out in some flyover city). And I think the old money hates that more than the concept of someone achieving more than they did.

Definitely no chip on the shoulder there.

And it is 'pastime'.

I absolutely have a chip. It's what keeps me sharp and a step ahead of the soft old money navel gazers who envy my ability to succeed in any situation. I want to be a part of their club simply to say I gained entry.

And thanks for spell-checking my work, Timmy. Here's a quarter for the effort.

Lol. You certainly do have a chip. Doubt you are ahead of anyone, and if you gain entry to any exclusive clubs I want a front row ticket to mess you make of it given the personality and lack of social skills on display here...

I am already in their clubs. I have the social skills. That's the point. I didn't come from that world but worked hard and figuired out the game. 90% of the others in the club were born with it. Box checked, on to the next success suckers.

This sounds like hell to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can provide an example that illustrates this divide. My sister and I grew up middle/lower middle class with parents who prioritized education so we went to good schools and mingled with UMC/MC peers.

I am a “striver” as in I have ambition and want to improve my life and my finances and I am always looking to upgrade and do better and be better.

My sister was exactly like me. Desperate to fit in with her UC peers, dress like them, talk like them but she had this sense of urgency and unease until…she married one of them.

It happened slowly but 5 years in, she has lost some of the striver-ness. Her husband is a trust funder who will inherit like 20 mil down the line. His friends are billionaires and multimillionaires. My sister still works but she isn’t as dedicated to her job and disdains having a career. She makes fun of her single friend who wants to go to an Ivy Business school and thinks it’s not with the hassle.

She focuses her ambition now on fitness, skincare and ensuring her new baby has all she needs.

She doesn’t ever worry about making it or making a certain salary or a certain accomplishment because… she has made it. She will never have to prove herself for the rest of her life. She and her child are in the club.

I am not.

That's a pretty low inheritance for a "trust funder." My inlaws ran and then sold a blue collar business and my husband will inherit about $20million too. But he's nothing like what you describe of your BIL or his family. Are you sure his inheritance isn't much higher?

[Anonymous]

I can't explain the difference, but I know it when I see it. For example, I have a friend/aquaintence whose husband has made several huge leaps in his career over the last 5 or so years and now clearly makes bank. Upgraded the house, moved all three kids to private. That alone of course does not make them strivers.

However now, literally every time they go on vacation, she MUST post pictures of her family sitting in business/first class BOTH ways. It apparently is VERY important to her that people know she is flying business/first.

That she flies that way doesn't make her a striver - its the fact that everyone must know.

[Anonymous]

A huge example of a striver I once knew had a DH (ex now) who committed fraud and is serving a decade in federal prison.

They never shut up about their lavish vacations, fancy house, country club and loved treating their “elite” friends to first class air fare and trips abroad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't explain the difference, but I know it when I see it. For example, I have a friend/acquaintance whose husband has made several huge leaps in his career over the last 5 or so years and now clearly makes bank. Upgraded the house, moved all three kids to private. That alone of course does not make them strivers.

However now, literally every time they go on vacation, she MUST post pictures of her family sitting in business/first class BOTH ways. It apparently is VERY important to her that people know she is flying business/first.

That she flies that way doesn't make her a striver - it's the fact that everyone must know.

It's that last sentence, which means you're contradicting your first sentence.

I don't think most people are bothered by people who want to work hard and get ahead, at least not if they're doing so ethically. It's the constant demands for attention, the need for everyone to be impressed by them, that makes strivers so exhausting to the rest of us. It's not just bragging about money; it's bragging about who they know, how savvy they are, how well-connected they are. Even if I were going to think "Oh, nice for her!" I'm not going to feel that way when you insist that I be impressed and say so. No, say more. MORE MORE MORE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't explain the difference, but I know it when I see it. For example, I have a friend/acquaintance whose husband has made several huge leaps in his career over the last 5 or so years and now clearly makes bank. Upgraded the house, moved all three kids to private. That alone of course does not make them strivers.

However now, literally every time they go on vacation, she MUST post pictures of her family sitting in business/first class BOTH ways. It apparently is VERY important to her that people know she is flying business/first.

That she flies that way doesn't make her a striver - it's the fact that everyone must know.

It's that last sentence, which means you're contradicting your first sentence.

I don't think most people are bothered by people who want to work hard and get ahead, at least not if they're doing so ethically. It's the constant demands for attention, the need for everyone to be impressed by them, that makes strivers so exhausting to the rest of us. It's not just bragging about money; it's bragging about who they know, how savvy they are, how well-connected they are. Even if I were going to think "Oh, nice for her!" I'm not going to feel that way when you insist that I be impressed and say so. No, say more. MORE MORE MORE.

And she definitely has some striver friends who comment on the photos wanting to know the airline or otherwise comment on *which* particular business class this is and compare notes, making sure everyone knows they too fly business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I look askance at strivers because they are deeply insecure and seem to laser focused upon aligning themselves with the “right” neighborhood, social groups, schools, sports and activities. No decision is made without carefully considered social engineering.

As yes, it’s always new money types who are this desperate. They constantly name drop, are ostentatious and blatantly obvious about their country club, their vacations, their charitable contributions, their social events.

I’ve heard it said that old money whispers while new money screams.

My SIL is one of the wealthiest people I know, yet lives quietly but lavishly. Volunteers, has a non remarkable job, small circle of childhood friends, financially supports a charity that helped a family member, values her privacy.

Yes, this. I have felt this from the wife of one of my DH's friend. It is very apparent that they only do things that are being done by everyone else they want to be like. Specifically, very traditionally white and wealthy sports. It is not as if they enrolled their kids in all sports and then their kids decided as they got older what sports they liked...oh no, they are told what sports they will play.

They bought a house in one of the best school clusters in MD but still put their kid in private school. Somehow manages to always be close friends with the wealthiest members of any group she is in. Wants to be a SAHM but cant because they cant sustain their level of spending without her income, which she oscillates between accepting and being resentful of.

[Anonymous]

Are striver and Boujie the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are striver and Boujie the same?

Not quite in my view (though this could be idiosyncratic).

I think of Striver as someone who tends to be a bit crass and angsty about social climbing. They are often gauche about what counts as "elite" and/or make odd things into a competition for elite status.
I think of Bougie as someone who tends to be kind of self-indulgent and likes luxury whether or not they can actually afford it. They feel they deserve it. Sometimes they like genuinely like the luxuries, sometimes they are chasing prestige. But I think of them as tending more oblivious and lazy and wanting status though rather than angsty, gauche and competitive about status.