FCPS High School Poverty and Enrollment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - the simple fact is that the gap between certain neighboring schools in FCPS has become so large that the prospect of boundary changes is essentially off the table.

West Springfield - Lewis - not going to happen. Langley - Herndon - not going to happen. Woodson - Annandale - not going to happen.

And then you have West Potomac and Mount Vernon - it could have happened. A boundary change made perfect sense. Extra space at Mount Vernon and too many students at West Potomac. Both schools have a pretty high F/R lunch rate, but West Potomac's is a bit lower and it has a better reputation (and AP courses). If they didn't change those boundaries, you better believe they are never going to make those other changes.

Up until 2000, maybe 2005, you could probably have made any of those changes. Parents would have grumbled but would have sucked it up and moved on. Now it would implode parents' minds.

Let it implode parents’ minds! No one should feel entitled to attend a particular school. The School Board wastes taxpayer money by adding on to “good” schools while other schools have plenty of space. They promote “equity” but have no actual intention of doing anything to resolve the situation or upset the status quo. They just want to keep their Board seat and maybe move up to higher office. Meanwhile our taxes continue to increase while many of our schools stagnate or decline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - the simple fact is that the gap between certain neighboring schools in FCPS has become so large that the prospect of boundary changes is essentially off the table.

West Springfield - Lewis - not going to happen. Langley - Herndon - not going to happen. Woodson - Annandale - not going to happen.

And then you have West Potomac and Mount Vernon - it could have happened. A boundary change made perfect sense. Extra space at Mount Vernon and too many students at West Potomac. Both schools have a pretty high F/R lunch rate, but West Potomac's is a bit lower and it has a better reputation (and AP courses). If they didn't change those boundaries, you better believe they are never going to make those other changes.

Up until 2000, maybe 2005, you could probably have made any of those changes. Parents would have grumbled but would have sucked it up and moved on. Now it would implode parents' minds.

Let it implode parents’ minds! No one should feel entitled to attend a particular school. The School Board wastes taxpayer money by adding on to “good” schools while other schools have plenty of space. They promote “equity” but have no actual intention of doing anything to resolve the situation or upset the status quo. They just want to keep their Board seat and maybe move up to higher office. Meanwhile our taxes continue to increase while many of our schools stagnate or decline.

If you pay premium to live in jurisdiction for particular school, you should feel entitlement.

If the border change to problem school housing value go down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - the simple fact is that the gap between certain neighboring schools in FCPS has become so large that the prospect of boundary changes is essentially off the table.

West Springfield - Lewis - not going to happen. Langley - Herndon - not going to happen. Woodson - Annandale - not going to happen.

And then you have West Potomac and Mount Vernon - it could have happened. A boundary change made perfect sense. Extra space at Mount Vernon and too many students at West Potomac. Both schools have a pretty high F/R lunch rate, but West Potomac's is a bit lower and it has a better reputation (and AP courses). If they didn't change those boundaries, you better believe they are never going to make those other changes.

Up until 2000, maybe 2005, you could probably have made any of those changes. Parents would have grumbled but would have sucked it up and moved on. Now it would implode parents' minds.

Let it implode parents’ minds! No one should feel entitled to attend a particular school. The School Board wastes taxpayer money by adding on to “good” schools while other schools have plenty of space. They promote “equity” but have no actual intention of doing anything to resolve the situation or upset the status quo. They just want to keep their Board seat and maybe move up to higher office. Meanwhile our taxes continue to increase while many of our schools stagnate or decline.

If you pay premium to live in jurisdiction for particular school, you should feel entitlement.

If the border change to problem school housing value go down.

But conversely wouldn’t housing values go up in some areas if less poverty was concentrated in those schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - the simple fact is that the gap between certain neighboring schools in FCPS has become so large that the prospect of boundary changes is essentially off the table.

West Springfield - Lewis - not going to happen. Langley - Herndon - not going to happen. Woodson - Annandale - not going to happen.

And then you have West Potomac and Mount Vernon - it could have happened. A boundary change made perfect sense. Extra space at Mount Vernon and too many students at West Potomac. Both schools have a pretty high F/R lunch rate, but West Potomac's is a bit lower and it has a better reputation (and AP courses). If they didn't change those boundaries, you better believe they are never going to make those other changes.

Up until 2000, maybe 2005, you could probably have made any of those changes. Parents would have grumbled but would have sucked it up and moved on. Now it would implode parents' minds.

Woodson and Annandale used to be more even till the school board messed that up. They create these disparities to suit themselves. They get on these school boards just to make boundary adjustments.

Why bring up Woodson and Annandale and not Lake Braddock and Annandale?

DP but for many years Annandale and Woodson were arch-rivals like Lake Braddock and Robinson. Annandale and Lake Braddock were never arch-rivals. Now it just feels like punching down insofar as Annandale is concerned, given how FCPS has stripped AHS of many of its higher-income neighborhoods. Same thing happened with Lewis.

[Anonymous]

It's also worth noting that if you were to move a wealthier neighborhood into a high-poverty pyramid that those residents would instead switch to alternative schooling if they can afford it. I remember reading a survey that showed that nearly 60% of residents in the Sleepy Hollow/Lake Barcroft areas of the Justice Boundaries send their children to different schools.

[Anonymous]

The demographics of Fairfax County have changed. Many schools have a higher population on free lunch than before. It is just a fact and is not likely to change.

Boundary adjustments will not change this. It will only make more wealthier people flee the public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's also worth noting that if you were to move a wealthier neighborhood into a high-poverty pyramid that those residents would instead switch to alternative schooling if they can afford it. I remember reading a survey that showed that nearly 60% of residents in the Sleepy Hollow/Lake Barcroft areas of the Justice Boundaries send their children to different schools.

Link?

As far as I’m aware Langley, not Justice, probably has the highest percentage of families in FCPS sending their kids to privates - and that’s despite SB members doing everything in their power to keep kids from low or moderate-income families out of Langley.

When they changed the South Lakes boundaries there was a lot of saber-rattling about how wealthier families would just move or pull their kids out of FCPS. And some did, but the situation stabilized relatively quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - the simple fact is that the gap between certain neighboring schools in FCPS has become so large that the prospect of boundary changes is essentially off the table.

West Springfield - Lewis - not going to happen. Langley - Herndon - not going to happen. Woodson - Annandale - not going to happen.

And then you have West Potomac and Mount Vernon - it could have happened. A boundary change made perfect sense. Extra space at Mount Vernon and too many students at West Potomac. Both schools have a pretty high F/R lunch rate, but West Potomac's is a bit lower and it has a better reputation (and AP courses). If they didn't change those boundaries, you better believe they are never going to make those other changes.

Up until 2000, maybe 2005, you could probably have made any of those changes. Parents would have grumbled but would have sucked it up and moved on. Now it would implode parents' minds.

Let it implode parents’ minds! No one should feel entitled to attend a particular school. The School Board wastes taxpayer money by adding on to “good” schools while other schools have plenty of space. They promote “equity” but have no actual intention of doing anything to resolve the situation or upset the status quo. They just want to keep their Board seat and maybe move up to higher office. Meanwhile our taxes continue to increase while many of our schools stagnate or decline.

If you pay premium to live in jurisdiction for particular school, you should feel entitlement.

If the border change to problem school housing value go down.

Everyone pays the same rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - the simple fact is that the gap between certain neighboring schools in FCPS has become so large that the prospect of boundary changes is essentially off the table.

West Springfield - Lewis - not going to happen. Langley - Herndon - not going to happen. Woodson - Annandale - not going to happen.

And then you have West Potomac and Mount Vernon - it could have happened. A boundary change made perfect sense. Extra space at Mount Vernon and too many students at West Potomac. Both schools have a pretty high F/R lunch rate, but West Potomac's is a bit lower and it has a better reputation (and AP courses). If they didn't change those boundaries, you better believe they are never going to make those other changes.

Up until 2000, maybe 2005, you could probably have made any of those changes. Parents would have grumbled but would have sucked it up and moved on. Now it would implode parents' minds.

Let it implode parents’ minds! No one should feel entitled to attend a particular school. The School Board wastes taxpayer money by adding on to “good” schools while other schools have plenty of space. They promote “equity” but have no actual intention of doing anything to resolve the situation or upset the status quo. They just want to keep their Board seat and maybe move up to higher office. Meanwhile our taxes continue to increase while many of our schools stagnate or decline.

If you pay premium to live in jurisdiction for particular school, you should feel entitlement.

If the border change to problem school housing value go down.

Everyone pays the same rate.

Yes. But, funny how that works. House value goes up: taxes go up. So, while everyone may pay the same "rate" they certainly pay different amounts. Sometimes, dramatically different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - the simple fact is that the gap between certain neighboring schools in FCPS has become so large that the prospect of boundary changes is essentially off the table.

West Springfield - Lewis - not going to happen. Langley - Herndon - not going to happen. Woodson - Annandale - not going to happen.

And then you have West Potomac and Mount Vernon - it could have happened. A boundary change made perfect sense. Extra space at Mount Vernon and too many students at West Potomac. Both schools have a pretty high F/R lunch rate, but West Potomac's is a bit lower and it has a better reputation (and AP courses). If they didn't change those boundaries, you better believe they are never going to make those other changes.

Up until 2000, maybe 2005, you could probably have made any of those changes. Parents would have grumbled but would have sucked it up and moved on. Now it would implode parents' minds.

Let it implode parents’ minds! No one should feel entitled to attend a particular school. The School Board wastes taxpayer money by adding on to “good” schools while other schools have plenty of space. They promote “equity” but have no actual intention of doing anything to resolve the situation or upset the status quo. They just want to keep their Board seat and maybe move up to higher office. Meanwhile our taxes continue to increase while many of our schools stagnate or decline.

If you pay premium to live in jurisdiction for particular school, you should feel entitlement.

If the border change to problem school housing value go down.

Everyone pays the same rate.

Yes. But, funny how that works. House value goes up: taxes go up. So, while everyone may pay the same "rate" they certainly pay different amounts. Sometimes, dramatically different.

FCPS decisions always get determined based on some rich people complaining about anything that conceivably might affect their home values (even as they simultaneously kvetch about their tax bills).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - the simple fact is that the gap between certain neighboring schools in FCPS has become so large that the prospect of boundary changes is essentially off the table.

West Springfield - Lewis - not going to happen. Langley - Herndon - not going to happen. Woodson - Annandale - not going to happen.

And then you have West Potomac and Mount Vernon - it could have happened. A boundary change made perfect sense. Extra space at Mount Vernon and too many students at West Potomac. Both schools have a pretty high F/R lunch rate, but West Potomac's is a bit lower and it has a better reputation (and AP courses). If they didn't change those boundaries, you better believe they are never going to make those other changes.

Up until 2000, maybe 2005, you could probably have made any of those changes. Parents would have grumbled but would have sucked it up and moved on. Now it would implode parents' minds.

Woodson and Annandale used to be more even till the school board messed that up. They create these disparities to suit themselves. They get on these school boards just to make boundary adjustments.

Why bring up Woodson and Annandale and not Lake Braddock and Annandale?

DP but for many years Annandale and Woodson were arch-rivals like Lake Braddock and Robinson. Annandale and Lake Braddock were never arch-rivals. Now it just feels like punching down insofar as Annandale is concerned, given how FCPS has stripped AHS of many of its higher-income neighborhoods. Same thing happened with Lewis.

Maybe Annandale and Woodson were rivals in the 1970s or something, but not at any point in recent memory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of these numbers really surprise me. Where are these families living?? This area has gotten so expensive.

In Mount Vernon, there are two trailer (mobile home) parks that feed into MVHS. We also have homeless shelters. Ft. Belvoir families are zoned for MVHS - enlisted soldiers are not high wage earners and some of our FARMS students may be military families. But the majority are most likely multiple families living together in both single family homes and apartments/townhouses/condos. We also have multiple apartment complexes and most of them are older, garden style apartments and not the new, expensive ones with fancy amenities. I don't know how the affordable housing works, but I do know families can rent at reduced rates. I looked and the apartment complex that is walking distance to the high school starts at $1500 a month. And it is one of the nicer apartment complexes in the 22309 zip code (the MV zip code.)

I cannot speak to the military at Fort Belvoir specifically, but I can speak generally. I taught in DOD schools. They historically have far fewer high school students than elementary because the parents begin retiring as the kids get older. And, FWIW, it is unlikely that there are many high school students from Fort Belvoir whose parents are in the lower enlisted ranks.
Also, I understand that military families are able to pupil place out to other schools. I am guessing that many choose this option.

All true.

I just looked at the school profiles for the 2 elementary schools located on Ft. Belvoir.

Their FARMS numbers significantly increased this past school year, from the upper teens to over 30% in both schools.

Knowing that those schools are amost completely lower level enlisted families, it is shocking to see a snapshot how much the terrible inflation of this administration has affected our enlisted troops.

Shameful.

+1
Enlisted should not only be paid far better, but also given housing in the best school districts.

We have had kids at military base schools.

The military base schools comprised of 100% military kids tend to be very strong. There was a lot of research last decade before the focus switched to equity based education on the success of military base schools in eliminating the achievement gap between races, not by lowering standards but by raising up all kids, similar to the success in Catholic schools in high poverty areas.

Military on base schools are traditionally very strong, even when the families are primarily lower ranking enlisted. However, this might be different now that the military has moved away from a culture of color blind excellence. I haven't looked at recent stats, but prior to the last couple of years military base schools were exceptional, particularly for poor or minority kids.

The number of assumptions/assertions in this statement is just mind-blowing. This forum is getting more and more chock full of right wing bingo card words/concepts.

What on earth are you babbling about? Having had kids in military base schools myself, I agree completely with what the PP is saying. Do you have anything useful to add, or are you the same OP in Website Feedback who complained that views she didn't like were "propaganda"? JFC.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of these numbers really surprise me. Where are these families living?? This area has gotten so expensive.

In Mount Vernon, there are two trailer (mobile home) parks that feed into MVHS. We also have homeless shelters. Ft. Belvoir families are zoned for MVHS - enlisted soldiers are not high wage earners and some of our FARMS students may be military families. But the majority are most likely multiple families living together in both single family homes and apartments/townhouses/condos. We also have multiple apartment complexes and most of them are older, garden style apartments and not the new, expensive ones with fancy amenities. I don't know how the affordable housing works, but I do know families can rent at reduced rates. I looked and the apartment complex that is walking distance to the high school starts at $1500 a month. And it is one of the nicer apartment complexes in the 22309 zip code (the MV zip code.)

I cannot speak to the military at Fort Belvoir specifically, but I can speak generally. I taught in DOD schools. They historically have far fewer high school students than elementary because the parents begin retiring as the kids get older. And, FWIW, it is unlikely that there are many high school students from Fort Belvoir whose parents are in the lower enlisted ranks.
Also, I understand that military families are able to pupil place out to other schools. I am guessing that many choose this option.

All true.

I just looked at the school profiles for the 2 elementary schools located on Ft. Belvoir.

Their FARMS numbers significantly increased this past school year, from the upper teens to over 30% in both schools.

Knowing that those schools are amost completely lower level enlisted families, it is shocking to see a snapshot how much the terrible inflation of this administration has affected our enlisted troops.

Shameful.

+1
Enlisted should not only be paid far better, but also given housing in the best school districts.

We have had kids at military base schools.

The military base schools comprised of 100% military kids tend to be very strong. There was a lot of research last decade before the focus switched to equity based education on the success of military base schools in eliminating the achievement gap between races, not by lowering standards but by raising up all kids, similar to the success in Catholic schools in high poverty areas.

Military on base schools are traditionally very strong, even when the families are primarily lower ranking enlisted. However, this might be different now that the military has moved away from a culture of color blind excellence. I haven't looked at recent stats, but prior to the last couple of years military base schools were exceptional, particularly for poor or minority kids.

The number of assumptions/assertions in this statement is just mind-blowing. This forum is getting more and more chock full of right wing bingo card words/concepts.

What on earth are you babbling about? Having had kids in military base schools myself, I agree completely with what the PP is saying. Do you have anything useful to add, or are you the same OP in Website Feedback who complained that views she didn't like were "propaganda"? JFC.
DP

No, I have had kids on military base schools myself and I find the discussion of the military decline/school decline inaccurate and offensive. Don't know why this has become a right wing talking point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 3%
Herndon 50%

These two pyramids are right next to each other.

Exactly. Langley’s borders should be changed to send some to Herndon and McLean’s border can be changed to send some to Langley to reduce MHS’s overcrowding. But rich Langley parents are too powerful.

No, McLean parents continue to balk at the suggestion of sending more McLean kids to Langley. Take it up with them.

So as I understand it, your position (eye rolls and all) is:

1. It’s Herndon’s responsibility that poverty got concentrated at HHS. Langley has nothing to do with it.

2. It’s McLean, not Langley, responsible for more McLean kids not getting moved to Langley.

On the first point, it’s not just the Town of Herndon that decided what got built in Herndon and who attends Herndon MS/HS. The county and FCPS played a role as well, just as FCPS decided which expensive single-family areas in Herndon and Reston were rezoned to Langley in the past.

On the second point, the Great Falls community fought to limit the number of kids moved into Langley for fear it might bump them into Herndon. At this point, it’s more likely that if no addition gets built at McLean and another McLean boundary change is needed it will involve Falls Church (getting built out to 2500) than Langley (with a lower capacity of 2370 and a more vocal citizens association).

I'm wondering just how many posts you've written in the past year, repeating the same things, over and over and over. You are absolutely obsessed and seem to want to blame Langley for all of your problems. It's beyond bizarre... you truly sound like you could use some therapy.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of these numbers really surprise me. Where are these families living?? This area has gotten so expensive.

In Mount Vernon, there are two trailer (mobile home) parks that feed into MVHS. We also have homeless shelters. Ft. Belvoir families are zoned for MVHS - enlisted soldiers are not high wage earners and some of our FARMS students may be military families. But the majority are most likely multiple families living together in both single family homes and apartments/townhouses/condos. We also have multiple apartment complexes and most of them are older, garden style apartments and not the new, expensive ones with fancy amenities. I don't know how the affordable housing works, but I do know families can rent at reduced rates. I looked and the apartment complex that is walking distance to the high school starts at $1500 a month. And it is one of the nicer apartment complexes in the 22309 zip code (the MV zip code.)

I cannot speak to the military at Fort Belvoir specifically, but I can speak generally. I taught in DOD schools. They historically have far fewer high school students than elementary because the parents begin retiring as the kids get older. And, FWIW, it is unlikely that there are many high school students from Fort Belvoir whose parents are in the lower enlisted ranks.
Also, I understand that military families are able to pupil place out to other schools. I am guessing that many choose this option.

All true.

I just looked at the school profiles for the 2 elementary schools located on Ft. Belvoir.

Their FARMS numbers significantly increased this past school year, from the upper teens to over 30% in both schools.

Knowing that those schools are amost completely lower level enlisted families, it is shocking to see a snapshot how much the terrible inflation of this administration has affected our enlisted troops.

Shameful.

+1
Enlisted should not only be paid far better, but also given housing in the best school districts.

We have had kids at military base schools.

The military base schools comprised of 100% military kids tend to be very strong. There was a lot of research last decade before the focus switched to equity based education on the success of military base schools in eliminating the achievement gap between races, not by lowering standards but by raising up all kids, similar to the success in Catholic schools in high poverty areas.

Military on base schools are traditionally very strong, even when the families are primarily lower ranking enlisted. However, this might be different now that the military has moved away from a culture of color blind excellence. I haven't looked at recent stats, but prior to the last couple of years military base schools were exceptional, particularly for poor or minority kids.

The number of assumptions/assertions in this statement is just mind-blowing. This forum is getting more and more chock full of right wing bingo card words/concepts.

What on earth are you babbling about? Having had kids in military base schools myself, I agree completely with what the PP is saying. Do you have anything useful to add, or are you the same OP in Website Feedback who complained that views she didn't like were "propaganda"? JFC.
DP

No, I have had kids on military base schools myself and I find the discussion of the military decline/school decline inaccurate and offensive. Don't know why this has become a right wing talking point.

It isn't a "right wing talking point." It's just a fact. But we know you want to silence any and all views/facts/opinions that you don't agree with.