FCPS High School Poverty and Enrollment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 3%
Herndon 50%

These two pyramids are right next to each other.

+1
Not to mention, voters in Herndon are allowing the policies that create these poverty zones. You get what you vote for.

Ummm … Fairfax County voters have created a lot of the problem. Some place has to step in. The sh!t really hits the fan though when it comes to schooling and suddenly everyone becomes conservative. Fairfax County is a so-called sanctuary yet doesn’t have a real solution for schools.

"Voting Blue No Matter Who" is the problem. But unfortunately, many of the people complaining will never actually change the way they vote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - the simple fact is that the gap between certain neighboring schools in FCPS has become so large that the prospect of boundary changes is essentially off the table.

West Springfield - Lewis - not going to happen. Langley - Herndon - not going to happen. Woodson - Annandale - not going to happen.

And then you have West Potomac and Mount Vernon - it could have happened. A boundary change made perfect sense. Extra space at Mount Vernon and too many students at West Potomac. Both schools have a pretty high F/R lunch rate, but West Potomac's is a bit lower and it has a better reputation (and AP courses). If they didn't change those boundaries, you better believe they are never going to make those other changes.

Up until 2000, maybe 2005, you could probably have made any of those changes. Parents would have grumbled but would have sucked it up and moved on. Now it would implode parents' minds.

Let it implode parents’ minds! No one should feel entitled to attend a particular school. The School Board wastes taxpayer money by adding on to “good” schools while other schools have plenty of space. They promote “equity” but have no actual intention of doing anything to resolve the situation or upset the status quo. They just want to keep their Board seat and maybe move up to higher office. Meanwhile our taxes continue to increase while many of our schools stagnate or decline.

If you pay premium to live in jurisdiction for particular school, you should feel entitlement.

If the border change to problem school housing value go down.

Everyone pays the same rate.

Yes. But, funny how that works. House value goes up: taxes go up. So, while everyone may pay the same "rate" they certainly pay different amounts. Sometimes, dramatically different.

+1
I honestly can't believe this has to be explained to the PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of these numbers really surprise me. Where are these families living?? This area has gotten so expensive.

In Mount Vernon, there are two trailer (mobile home) parks that feed into MVHS. We also have homeless shelters. Ft. Belvoir families are zoned for MVHS - enlisted soldiers are not high wage earners and some of our FARMS students may be military families. But the majority are most likely multiple families living together in both single family homes and apartments/townhouses/condos. We also have multiple apartment complexes and most of them are older, garden style apartments and not the new, expensive ones with fancy amenities. I don't know how the affordable housing works, but I do know families can rent at reduced rates. I looked and the apartment complex that is walking distance to the high school starts at $1500 a month. And it is one of the nicer apartment complexes in the 22309 zip code (the MV zip code.)

I cannot speak to the military at Fort Belvoir specifically, but I can speak generally. I taught in DOD schools. They historically have far fewer high school students than elementary because the parents begin retiring as the kids get older. And, FWIW, it is unlikely that there are many high school students from Fort Belvoir whose parents are in the lower enlisted ranks.
Also, I understand that military families are able to pupil place out to other schools. I am guessing that many choose this option.

All true.

I just looked at the school profiles for the 2 elementary schools located on Ft. Belvoir.

Their FARMS numbers significantly increased this past school year, from the upper teens to over 30% in both schools.

Knowing that those schools are amost completely lower level enlisted families, it is shocking to see a snapshot how much the terrible inflation of this administration has affected our enlisted troops.

Shameful.

+1
Enlisted should not only be paid far better, but also given housing in the best school districts.

We have had kids at military base schools.

The military base schools comprised of 100% military kids tend to be very strong. There was a lot of research last decade before the focus switched to equity based education on the success of military base schools in eliminating the achievement gap between races, not by lowering standards but by raising up all kids, similar to the success in Catholic schools in high poverty areas.

Military on base schools are traditionally very strong, even when the families are primarily lower ranking enlisted. However, this might be different now that the military has moved away from a culture of color blind excellence. I haven't looked at recent stats, but prior to the last couple of years military base schools were exceptional, particularly for poor or minority kids.

The number of assumptions/assertions in this statement is just mind-blowing. This forum is getting more and more chock full of right wing bingo card words/concepts.

What on earth are you babbling about? Having had kids in military base schools myself, I agree completely with what the PP is saying. Do you have anything useful to add, or are you the same OP in Website Feedback who complained that views she didn't like were "propaganda"? JFC.
DP

No, I have had kids on military base schools myself and I find the discussion of the military decline/school decline inaccurate and offensive. Don't know why this has become a right wing talking point.

?????

No one said that.

The only thing mentioned was not having current knowledge of military schools and whether or not the current focus on "equity" vs "merit/colorblind" approach of the 90s through 2018 ish +/- has had an impact on military schools success at closing the achievement gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 3%
Herndon 50%

These two pyramids are right next to each other.

Exactly. Langley’s borders should be changed to send some to Herndon and McLean’s border can be changed to send some to Langley to reduce MHS’s overcrowding. But rich Langley parents are too powerful.

No, McLean parents continue to balk at the suggestion of sending more McLean kids to Langley. Take it up with them.

So as I understand it, your position (eye rolls and all) is:

1. It’s Herndon’s responsibility that poverty got concentrated at HHS. Langley has nothing to do with it.

2. It’s McLean, not Langley, responsible for more McLean kids not getting moved to Langley.

On the first point, it’s not just the Town of Herndon that decided what got built in Herndon and who attends Herndon MS/HS. The county and FCPS played a role as well, just as FCPS decided which expensive single-family areas in Herndon and Reston were rezoned to Langley in the past.

On the second point, the Great Falls community fought to limit the number of kids moved into Langley for fear it might bump them into Herndon. At this point, it’s more likely that if no addition gets built at McLean and another McLean boundary change is needed it will involve Falls Church (getting built out to 2500) than Langley (with a lower capacity of 2370 and a more vocal citizens association).

+100

In addition HHS encompasses more than the town of Herndon. Feeders include places that are / were called Herndon but are unincorporated areas of Fairfax County.

+200.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am more surprised by McLean, Woodson and lake Braddock- where do these families live?

And Marshall. I didn’t think the nearby apartments would account for the number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 3%
Herndon 50%

These two pyramids are right next to each other.

+1
Not to mention, voters in Herndon are allowing the policies that create these poverty zones. You get what you vote for.

Ummm … Fairfax County voters have created a lot of the problem. Some place has to step in. The sh!t really hits the fan though when it comes to schooling and suddenly everyone becomes conservative. Fairfax County is a so-called sanctuary yet doesn’t have a real solution for schools.

"Voting Blue No Matter Who" is the problem. But unfortunately, many of the people complaining will never actually change the way they vote.

Can you point out to how policies in red states or counties deal with the issue? Is there less poverty? Less of an achievement gap? Less undocumented immigrants? Give examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 3%
Herndon 50%

These two pyramids are right next to each other.

+1
Not to mention, voters in Herndon are allowing the policies that create these poverty zones. You get what you vote for.

Ummm … Fairfax County voters have created a lot of the problem. Some place has to step in. The sh!t really hits the fan though when it comes to schooling and suddenly everyone becomes conservative. Fairfax County is a so-called sanctuary yet doesn’t have a real solution for schools.

"Voting Blue No Matter Who" is the problem. But unfortunately, many of the people complaining will never actually change the way they vote.

Can you point out to how policies in red states or counties deal with the issue? Is there less poverty? Less of an achievement gap? Less undocumented immigrants? Give examples.

You can’t possibly expect that poster to back up her regurgitated slogans with facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 3%
Herndon 50%

These two pyramids are right next to each other.

+1
Not to mention, voters in Herndon are allowing the policies that create these poverty zones. You get what you vote for.

Funny … a large lower SES community going to Herndon is concentrated in the part of Fairfax County called Herndon. It is outside ToH’s jurisdiction. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - the simple fact is that the gap between certain neighboring schools in FCPS has become so large that the prospect of boundary changes is essentially off the table.

West Springfield - Lewis - not going to happen. Langley - Herndon - not going to happen. Woodson - Annandale - not going to happen.

And then you have West Potomac and Mount Vernon - it could have happened. A boundary change made perfect sense. Extra space at Mount Vernon and too many students at West Potomac. Both schools have a pretty high F/R lunch rate, but West Potomac's is a bit lower and it has a better reputation (and AP courses). If they didn't change those boundaries, you better believe they are never going to make those other changes.

Up until 2000, maybe 2005, you could probably have made any of those changes. Parents would have grumbled but would have sucked it up and moved on. Now it would implode parents' minds.

Let it implode parents’ minds! No one should feel entitled to attend a particular school. The School Board wastes taxpayer money by adding on to “good” schools while other schools have plenty of space. They promote “equity” but have no actual intention of doing anything to resolve the situation or upset the status quo. They just want to keep their Board seat and maybe move up to higher office. Meanwhile our taxes continue to increase while many of our schools stagnate or decline.

If you pay premium to live in jurisdiction for particular school, you should feel entitlement.

If the border change to problem school housing value go down.

Everyone pays the same rate.

Yes. But, funny how that works. House value goes up: taxes go up. So, while everyone may pay the same "rate" they certainly pay different amounts. Sometimes, dramatically different.

Education failed you. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 3%
Herndon 50%

These two pyramids are right next to each other.

+1
Not to mention, voters in Herndon are allowing the policies that create these poverty zones. You get what you vote for.

Ummm … Fairfax County voters have created a lot of the problem. Some place has to step in. The sh!t really hits the fan though when it comes to schooling and suddenly everyone becomes conservative. Fairfax County is a so-called sanctuary yet doesn’t have a real solution for schools.

"Voting Blue No Matter Who" is the problem. But unfortunately, many of the people complaining will never actually change the way they vote.

Can you point out to how policies in red states or counties deal with the issue? Is there less poverty? Less of an achievement gap? Less undocumented immigrants? Give examples.

You can’t possibly expect that poster to back up her regurgitated slogans with facts.

“Vote Blue No Matter Who” is a slogan used (and regurgitated) widely by LWNJs. As you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 3%
Herndon 50%

These two pyramids are right next to each other.

So? The communities are distinct. The poor parts of Herndon are no where near the Langley lines.

I’m not sure that 2 1/2 miles constitutes ‘nowhere near’ boundary lines.

Especially given the distance some Langley kids have to commute.

Are there split feeders for Herndon? Do any of the Langley kids go to elementary schools that also feed Herndon? Is that also a factor?

The only split feeder to Herndon is Coates, which is a split feeder to Herndon and Westfield, not Langley.

The gerrymandering of the Langley pyramid is at every level (ES/MS/HS) so every single-family area in Herndon and Reston on the other side of Route 7 that goes to Cooper and Langley also goes to Forestville.

The gerrymandering is outrageous between Langley and Herndon. Carving out only the the highest value SINGLE FAMILY properties for Langley across route 7.

Why don't they 'gerrymander' the Herndon multifamily housing for Langley? Hmmmm.......wonder why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 3%
Herndon 50%

These two pyramids are right next to each other.

Exactly. Langley’s borders should be changed to send some to Herndon and McLean’s border can be changed to send some to Langley to reduce MHS’s overcrowding. But rich Langley parents are too powerful.

No, McLean parents continue to balk at the suggestion of sending more McLean kids to Langley. Take it up with them.

So as I understand it, your position (eye rolls and all) is:

1. It’s Herndon’s responsibility that poverty got concentrated at HHS. Langley has nothing to do with it.

2. It’s McLean, not Langley, responsible for more McLean kids not getting moved to Langley.

On the first point, it’s not just the Town of Herndon that decided what got built in Herndon and who attends Herndon MS/HS. The county and FCPS played a role as well, just as FCPS decided which expensive single-family areas in Herndon and Reston were rezoned to Langley in the past.

On the second point, the Great Falls community fought to limit the number of kids moved into Langley for fear it might bump them into Herndon. At this point, it’s more likely that if no addition gets built at McLean and another McLean boundary change is needed it will involve Falls Church (getting built out to 2500) than Langley (with a lower capacity of 2370 and a more vocal citizens association).

+100

In addition HHS encompasses more than the town of Herndon. Feeders include places that are / were called Herndon but are unincorporated areas of Fairfax County.

+200.

1,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's also worth noting that if you were to move a wealthier neighborhood into a high-poverty pyramid that those residents would instead switch to alternative schooling if they can afford it. I remember reading a survey that showed that nearly 60% of residents in the Sleepy Hollow/Lake Barcroft areas of the Justice Boundaries send their children to different schools.

I read on this board all the time that getting rid of IB at Mount Vernon will "solve" it's problems. It might bring back a few of the public school kids who pupil place out of Mount Vernon. But it won't bring back all the families who choose to send their children to private schools. I live in one of the "wealthy" areas of Mount Vernon. I see a significant number of magnets on cars from the nearest Catholic school. Our housing values are significantly lower than comparable houses in West Potomac's borders. I think there are families who choose to buy here in Mt. Vernon and never plan to send their children to public school - they can afford private because they buy a less expensive home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 3%
Herndon 50%

These two pyramids are right next to each other.

+1
Not to mention, voters in Herndon are allowing the policies that create these poverty zones. You get what you vote for.

Ummm … Fairfax County voters have created a lot of the problem. Some place has to step in. The sh!t really hits the fan though when it comes to schooling and suddenly everyone becomes conservative. Fairfax County is a so-called sanctuary yet doesn’t have a real solution for schools.

"Voting Blue No Matter Who" is the problem. But unfortunately, many of the people complaining will never actually change the way they vote.

Well, when your only other potential choice is from a party that is actively trying to destroy public schools for the benefit of their for-profit & parochial buddies…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's also worth noting that if you were to move a wealthier neighborhood into a high-poverty pyramid that those residents would instead switch to alternative schooling if they can afford it. I remember reading a survey that showed that nearly 60% of residents in the Sleepy Hollow/Lake Barcroft areas of the Justice Boundaries send their children to different schools.

I read on this board all the time that getting rid of IB at Mount Vernon will "solve" it's problems. It might bring back a few of the public school kids who pupil place out of Mount Vernon. But it won't bring back all the families who choose to send their children to private schools. I live in one of the "wealthy" areas of Mount Vernon. I see a significant number of magnets on cars from the nearest Catholic school. Our housing values are significantly lower than comparable houses in West Potomac's borders. I think there are families who choose to buy here in Mt. Vernon and never plan to send their children to public school - they can afford private because they buy a less expensive home.

There are always some who will prefer private schools. They segregate the crap out of Langley to keep any kids who aren’t wealthy out and there are still a ton of people there who turn up their noses at FCPS. That doesn’t mean we should make decisions around schools - and keeping MVHS a neglected pariah is a decision - intended to make it marginally easier for some people to afford privates.