Help me understand the Ivy obsession

[Anonymous]

Meh..I think all this Ivy obsession is pointless. DH attended UIUC for Computer Sciences bachelors and masters, makes 700k+ (I am mentioning the salary because that's what is driving most people to Ivies), knows tons of Ivy graduates far less successful in their lives and career.

I went to UVA and have a successful career as a dentist and make 400k (again, not to brag but provide context), sure, I am not some big wig in D.C but we live a great life, isn't that the goal???

I tell my kids that the goal should be a well rounded, solid education, excellent work ethic and original thinking. Lots of cuckoos at the Ivies. Now, I don't know if my arguments extend to law etc as I don't know much about those fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe because there are posts that are basically the same as yours two or three times per week? You realize you are feeding the obsession, yes?

That said, I will take a crack. My own view is that because the incredible, outsized outcomes seem to be clustered in elite schools. If you look at the ranks of billionaire hedge fund, P/E, start-up founders, etc., it is shocking how it is clustered in just like 10 schools. Of course, not everyone graduated...but just look at the current thread on Open AI the current hottest tech start-up...Stanford drop-out, Harvard drop-out and Duke graduate. Look at the people/founders getting all the press currently...Musk from Penn, Zuckerberg from Harvard, Bezos from Princeton, etc. The amount of VC that flows to graduates of the top 10 schools is like 20x the amount flowing to all the other schools combined.

It is no different than if you are an athlete hoping to make it to the Pros. If you want to play pro football, sure you might get drafted out of North Dakota State, but the number of players drafted out of Alabama guarantees that every pro team is always paying attention to Alabama...while they only pay attention to North Dakota State because one player (Carson Wentz as an example) emerges to generate some buzz.

There will always be the folks arguing that Bezos would still have founded Amazon even if he had gone to the University of New Mexico...but of course he didn't and that is just theoretical. Yes, 98% of the graduates from Ivy League schools will go on to lead normal, decent lives...and some may fail miserably. But everyone thinks they can be in the 2% that succeed beyond anyone's wildest imagination.

You obviously did not read this article.

https://fortune.com/2023/06/14/fortune-500-ceo-colleges-ivy-league/

Most top CEOs don't have an Ivy League degree.

Maybe you didn't read my post. I know most Fortune 500 CEOs didn't go to any Ivy League school, but most parents and kids couldn't name 99% of the Fortune 500 CEOs, but they all know Musk, Zuckergerg, Bezos, etc. and articles about them seem to name-drop their schools fairly regularly. I am not trying to justify the Ivy League obsession, but trying to explain it.

Also, many parents/kids in the DMV know about hedge funds, VCs, P/E, top consulting, Goldman Sachs, etc. They aspire to become super-wealthy in those places, not to grind their way to the top of GE or 3M.

Widen. Your. Lens.

Tim Cook - Apple CEO, Auburn, what a grinder.

Darren Woods - ExxonMobil CEO, Texas A&M, what a grinder.

Karen Lynch - CVS Health CEO, Boston College, what a grinder.

Mike Wirth - Chervron CEO, Boston College, what a grinder.

I don't understand your point. I completely agreed most Fortune 500 CEOs don't come from Ivy League schools. However, most kids don't sit around just dreaming about becoming the CEO of CVS someday, and not many Ivy League kids want to work for Fortune 500 companies (outside of Tech).

Yes, they are grinders...that is a great attribute...but Mike Moritz (Wharton) at Sequoia Capital or Steve Schwartzman (Yale) at Blackstone or Ken Griffin (Harvard) at Citadel could buy and sell all three of them combined about 500x over.

I am trying to explain the Ivy League obsession, and you just come back with lists and articles that do nothing to dispel the obsession.

NP Griffin and Schwartzman are NOT two people I look up to in any way,shape,or form.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe because there are posts that are basically the same as yours two or three times per week? You realize you are feeding the obsession, yes?

That said, I will take a crack. My own view is that because the incredible, outsized outcomes seem to be clustered in elite schools. If you look at the ranks of billionaire hedge fund, P/E, start-up founders, etc., it is shocking how it is clustered in just like 10 schools. Of course, not everyone graduated...but just look at the current thread on Open AI the current hottest tech start-up...Stanford drop-out, Harvard drop-out and Duke graduate. Look at the people/founders getting all the press currently...Musk from Penn, Zuckerberg from Harvard, Bezos from Princeton, etc. The amount of VC that flows to graduates of the top 10 schools is like 20x the amount flowing to all the other schools combined.

It is no different than if you are an athlete hoping to make it to the Pros. If you want to play pro football, sure you might get drafted out of North Dakota State, but the number of players drafted out of Alabama guarantees that every pro team is always paying attention to Alabama...while they only pay attention to North Dakota State because one player (Carson Wentz as an example) emerges to generate some buzz.

There will always be the folks arguing that Bezos would still have founded Amazon even if he had gone to the University of New Mexico...but of course he didn't and that is just theoretical. Yes, 98% of the graduates from Ivy League schools will go on to lead normal, decent lives...and some may fail miserably. But everyone thinks they can be in the 2% that succeed beyond anyone's wildest imagination.

best explanation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meh..I think all this Ivy obsession is pointless. DH attended UIUC for Computer Sciences bachelors and masters, makes 700k+ (I am mentioning the salary because that's what is driving most people to Ivies), knows tons of Ivy graduates far less successful in their lives and career.

I went to UVA and have a successful career as a dentist and make 400k (again, not to brag but provide context), sure, I am not some big wig in D.C but we live a great life, isn't that the goal???

I tell my kids that the goal should be a well rounded, solid education, excellent work ethic and original thinking. Lots of cuckoos at the Ivies. Now, I don't know if my arguments extend to law etc as I don't know much about those fields.

I don’t know if OP is being literal with Ivy or as a euphemism for attending a top school. UIUC is tops in CS and has Andressen and YouTube alums. It makes the list in top 15 schools for VC funding. Berkeley, CMU…these are all tops for CS as well.

[Anonymous]

the obsession will live on because of people that want to brag, immigrants that have to justify the sacrifice they made to leave home country and live far away from family, people that want to get out of poverty through their children

[Anonymous]

Most people I know are obsessed with Ivy's since they want to be able to brag about it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe because there are posts that are basically the same as yours two or three times per week? You realize you are feeding the obsession, yes?

That said, I will take a crack. My own view is that because the incredible, outsized outcomes seem to be clustered in elite schools. If you look at the ranks of billionaire hedge fund, P/E, start-up founders, etc., it is shocking how it is clustered in just like 10 schools. Of course, not everyone graduated...but just look at the current thread on Open AI the current hottest tech start-up...Stanford drop-out, Harvard drop-out and Duke graduate. Look at the people/founders getting all the press currently...Musk from Penn, Zuckerberg from Harvard, Bezos from Princeton, etc. The amount of VC that flows to graduates of the top 10 schools is like 20x the amount flowing to all the other schools combined.

It is no different than if you are an athlete hoping to make it to the Pros. If you want to play pro football, sure you might get drafted out of North Dakota State, but the number of players drafted out of Alabama guarantees that every pro team is always paying attention to Alabama...while they only pay attention to North Dakota State because one player (Carson Wentz as an example) emerges to generate some buzz.

There will always be the folks arguing that Bezos would still have founded Amazon even if he had gone to the University of New Mexico...but of course he didn't and that is just theoretical. Yes, 98% of the graduates from Ivy League schools will go on to lead normal, decent lives...and some may fail miserably. But everyone thinks they can be in the 2% that succeed beyond anyone's wildest imagination.

best explanation.

I'd argue there's also safety at the top. I went to a very good school but not Harvard. I went into investment banking following graduation. I didn't work at Goldman. Going to HYP is like going to Goldman Sachs. When you leave Goldman, you have your choice of other equally prestigious institutions (and if less prestigious, then often more senior positions) to go to and that trickles down at each step of your career unless you're THE exception. This is true for law schools, law firms, consulting firms, investment banking firms, and PE/VCs and probably many other prestige-oriented service professions. Your starting point is just that much higher if you go to Harvard and you have more room to fall. So when you leave Goldman, you go to JP Morgan as an associate or VP and then, some middle market boutique as Managing Director. This same trickle down effect applies to Ivy league graduates across professions.

[Anonymous]

Why are you obsessed about other people's obsession?