Help me understand the Ivy obsession

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe because there are posts that are basically the same as yours two or three times per week? You realize you are feeding the obsession, yes?

That said, I will take a crack. My own view is that because the incredible, outsized outcomes seem to be clustered in elite schools. If you look at the ranks of billionaire hedge fund, P/E, start-up founders, etc., it is shocking how it is clustered in just like 10 schools. Of course, not everyone graduated...but just look at the current thread on Open AI the current hottest tech start-up...Stanford drop-out, Harvard drop-out and Duke graduate. Look at the people/founders getting all the press currently...Musk from Penn, Zuckerberg from Harvard, Bezos from Princeton, etc. The amount of VC that flows to graduates of the top 10 schools is like 20x the amount flowing to all the other schools combined.

It is no different than if you are an athlete hoping to make it to the Pros. If you want to play pro football, sure you might get drafted out of North Dakota State, but the number of players drafted out of Alabama guarantees that every pro team is always paying attention to Alabama...while they only pay attention to North Dakota State because one player (Carson Wentz as an example) emerges to generate some buzz.

There will always be the folks arguing that Bezos would still have founded Amazon even if he had gone to the University of New Mexico...but of course he didn't and that is just theoretical. Yes, 98% of the graduates from Ivy League schools will go on to lead normal, decent lives...and some may fail miserably. But everyone thinks they can be in the 2% that succeed beyond anyone's wildest imagination.

But those "2% that succeed beyond anyone's wildest imagination" most likely would have done so wherever they went. It's their drive, intellectual curiosity and ability to get things done that got them there, the "attending the Ivy" is really only a small part, except for PE and IB where the connections do matter more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP: At the base level, it is really about wanting a better life for one's kids.

Is that a bad thing ? Maybe, if taken to the extreme of Top 15 University or bust, but overall it is an admirable goal.

But fact is, except for those few, LIFG kids at the T25s, most kids at T15-25 would achieve the same thing if they attended their local state U ranked 80th. They already have the family connections, work ethic, family support/financial support to be innovators and change the world if they want. Going to a T15 does not lift them up that much. So the issue is that you start instilling in your kid at a young age, that going to a T15 means "a better life", when that's not really true. Causes stress and might stifle the kid's true intentions

[Anonymous]

I attended UMD. My two other colleagues attended Stanford and UPenn. All three of us have to report to a boss who attended Berklee School of Music and he makes three times, around 900K, more than we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: At the base level, it is really about wanting a better life for one's kids.

Is that a bad thing ? Maybe, if taken to the extreme of Top 15 University or bust, but overall it is an admirable goal.

But fact is, except for those few, LIFG kids at the T25s, most kids at T15-25 would achieve the same thing if they attended their local state U ranked 80th. They already have the family connections, work ethic, family support/financial support to be innovators and change the world if they want. Going to a T15 does not lift them up that much. So the issue is that you start instilling in your kid at a young age, that going to a T15 means "a better life", when that's not really true. Causes stress and might stifle the kid's true intentions

What does "LIFG" mean ?

Also, I think that you may have misunderstood my post that you quoted as we are in agreement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: At the base level, it is really about wanting a better life for one's kids.

Is that a bad thing ? Maybe, if taken to the extreme of Top 15 University or bust, but overall it is an admirable goal.

But fact is, except for those few, LIFG kids at the T25s, most kids at T15-25 would achieve the same thing if they attended their local state U ranked 80th. They already have the family connections, work ethic, family support/financial support to be innovators and change the world if they want. Going to a T15 does not lift them up that much. So the issue is that you start instilling in your kid at a young age, that going to a T15 means "a better life", when that's not really true. Causes stress and might stifle the kid's true intentions

What does "LIFG" mean ?

Also, I think that you may have misunderstood my post that you quoted as we are in agreement.

Nevermind. Low income first generation is what you meant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I attended UMD. My two other colleagues attended Stanford and UPenn. All three of us have to report to a boss who attended Berklee School of Music and he makes three times, around 900K, more than we do.

How the heck you know your colleagues salaries, let alone your boss salary.

[Anonymous]

going to an ivy doesn't change your life (I went to upenn). but it does open doors and give you a network if you don't have one already.

there's other ways to get that. I think you can get the same network from attending a private HS or private K-8 that is very well regarded.

[Anonymous]

Seems like you are obssessed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I attended UMD. My two other colleagues attended Stanford and UPenn. All three of us have to report to a boss who attended Berklee School of Music and he makes three times, around 900K, more than we do.

But how many Berklee School of Music grads work at your company in general compared to the three schools you mention?

However, you bring up another great point by mentioning Berklee. I believe if you look at Julliard and Berklee from a pure average life outcome/earnings, they rank very low, with the average salary low and student-debt high. Yet, they are both the top schools for music/arts in the country and I guarantee you people obsess about those schools as well.

Why is that the case? Because everyone that gets accepted thinks they can be the next John Mayer or Quincy Jones (Berklee) or Anthony Mackee or Viola Davis (Julliard)...even though 98% won't. In fact, the vast majority will really struggle in life from a $$$s perspective, so you could say that they are making poor decisions as well.

[Anonymous]

I'm sympathetic to OP. Also an elite Ivy grad. The amazing networking and accomplishments mentioned in this thread accrues to probably 10% of graduates. The typical grad is solidly UMC having a nice professional career. Which you can get out of state or lesser ranked private college.

I am a consultant with a major consultancy and our leadership and associates are from all over the place. Including plenty of no name schools.

[Anonymous]

Rich White people really go the furthest with the obsession

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varsity_Blues_scandal

https://www.insider.com/college-admissions-scandal-full-list-people-sentenced-2019-9#parent-homayoun-zadeh-was-sentenced-to-6-weeks-in-prison-33

They want to maintain the ALDC cartel

Almost half of White studetns at Harvard is ALDC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Rich White people really go the furthest with the obsession

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varsity_Blues_scandal

https://www.insider.com/college-admissions-scandal-full-list-people-sentenced-2019-9#parent-homayoun-zadeh-was-sentenced-to-6-weeks-in-prison-33

They want to maintain the ALDC cartel

Almost half of White studetns at Harvard is ALDC

Just think of all those who did it without getting caught. It's an industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: At the base level, it is really about wanting a better life for one's kids.

Is that a bad thing ? Maybe, if taken to the extreme of Top 15 University or bust, but overall it is an admirable goal.

But fact is, except for those few, LIFG kids at the T25s, most kids at T15-25 would achieve the same thing if they attended their local state U ranked 80th. They already have the family connections, work ethic, family support/financial support to be innovators and change the world if they want. Going to a T15 does not lift them up that much. So the issue is that you start instilling in your kid at a young age, that going to a T15 means "a better life", when that's not really true. Causes stress and might stifle the kid's true intentions

What does "LIFG" mean ?

Also, I think that you may have misunderstood my post that you quoted as we are in agreement.

Low income, first generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I attended UMD. My two other colleagues attended Stanford and UPenn. All three of us have to report to a boss who attended Berklee School of Music and he makes three times, around 900K, more than we do.

But how many Berklee School of Music grads work at your company in general compared to the three schools you mention?

However, you bring up another great point by mentioning Berklee. I believe if you look at Julliard and Berklee from a pure average life outcome/earnings, they rank very low, with the average salary low and student-debt high. Yet, they are both the top schools for music/arts in the country and I guarantee you people obsess about those schools as well.

Why is that the case? Because everyone that gets accepted thinks they can be the next John Mayer or Quincy Jones (Berklee) or Anthony Mackee or Viola Davis (Julliard)...even though 98% won't. In fact, the vast majority will really struggle in life from a $$$s perspective, so you could say that they are making poor decisions as well.

Well, as a music major/theater major/performing art, it actually DOES matter where you attend. That world is all about the connections for getting a job. Study music at a top school and you will get your foot in the door for auditions, gigs, teaching, private lessons, etc. It's an area where 1000 show up for the auditions for trumpet in a symphony, it helps with who you know to make the cut to the live auditions (sometimes they are blind, sometimes they are not). When a smaller group is hiring, they ask for recommendations, and your connections will help you get the job. Matters much more than most majors.

[Anonymous]

DCUM is filled with prole strivers who are status obsessed. That's why. Most confident rich people don't give a damn about the Ivy League.