Help me understand the Ivy obsession

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Among all things with which a society could be obsessed, striving for admission to any in a group of exceptional universities is a positive.

Nothing is a positive that leads people who are working to their full capacity to believe they're not doing enough, and to subsequently develop addictions, mental health issues, etc. due to the constant presence of high anxiety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe because there are posts that are basically the same as yours two or three times per week? You realize you are feeding the obsession, yes?

That said, I will take a crack. My own view is that because the incredible, outsized outcomes seem to be clustered in elite schools. If you look at the ranks of billionaire hedge fund, P/E, start-up founders, etc., it is shocking how it is clustered in just like 10 schools. Of course, not everyone graduated...but just look at the current thread on Open AI the current hottest tech start-up...Stanford drop-out, Harvard drop-out and Duke graduate. Look at the people/founders getting all the press currently...Musk from Penn, Zuckerberg from Harvard, Bezos from Princeton, etc. The amount of VC that flows to graduates of the top 10 schools is like 20x the amount flowing to all the other schools combined.

It is no different than if you are an athlete hoping to make it to the Pros. If you want to play pro football, sure you might get drafted out of North Dakota State, but the number of players drafted out of Alabama guarantees that every pro team is always paying attention to Alabama...while they only pay attention to North Dakota State because one player (Carson Wentz as an example) emerges to generate some buzz.

There will always be the folks arguing that Bezos would still have founded Amazon even if he had gone to the University of New Mexico...but of course he didn't and that is just theoretical. Yes, 98% of the graduates from Ivy League schools will go on to lead normal, decent lives...and some may fail miserably. But everyone thinks they can be in the 2% that succeed beyond anyone's wildest imagination.

But those "2% that succeed beyond anyone's wildest imagination" most likely would have done so wherever they went. It's their drive, intellectual curiosity and ability to get things done that got them there, the "attending the Ivy" is really only a small part, except for PE and IB where the connections do matter more.

+1 Ivies get first crack at the hs students who have already achieved the most, so of course they're going to have many of the highest achievers. Take all Ivy students and send them to Penn State or U of Washington or Texas or Illinois, and vice versa, and things will shake out exactly the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:going to an ivy doesn't change your life (I went to upenn). but it does open doors and give you a network if you don't have one already.

there's other ways to get that. I think you can get the same network from attending a private HS or private K-8 that is very well regarded.

Penn State has a 'network', too.

[Anonymous]

Op here- My question is more along the lines of why is an Ivy League the main goal. For example, the poster who wrote “don’t send your kid to a big 3 if you want to get to an Ivy.” IMO- isn’t it more about your kids getting an amazing education and having a good foundation? In addition, making sure that your kids develop EQ skills? If that means B average at a top private to gain those skills isn’t that preferable to your child going to a public school that doesn’t fit their academic needs just to maybe get into any Ivy. It seems to me that people who are successful have 1. Good writing/ math skills 2. Emotional intelligence. I don’t think going to an Ivy League sets you up the way people assume. Yes you have a good network but only if you know how to leverage it. Otherwise, it’s not like my classmates are doing miles ahead of others professionally. The ones who are super successful often came from successful families to begin with. At some point where you go to school doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is filled with prole strivers who are status obsessed. That's why. Most confident rich people don't give a damn about the Ivy League.

Sure, that's why they try to find workarounds to buy their kids in. Les Wexner sent his kids to Harvard, Jamie Dimon sent his kids to Duke, Stephen Mandel sent his kids to Dartmouth, and so on and so forth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is filled with prole strivers who are status obsessed. That's why. Most confident rich people don't give a damn about the Ivy League.

Sure, that's why they try to find workarounds to buy their kids in. Les Wexner sent his kids to Harvard, Jamie Dimon sent his kids to Duke, Stephen Mandel sent his kids to Dartmouth, and so on and so forth.

How do you even know this stuff? Weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is filled with prole strivers who are status obsessed. That's why. Most confident rich people don't give a damn about the Ivy League.

That’s true. The really rich people I know send their kids to SEC schools or SLACs like Colgate

For these people, college is a purchased experience

Ivy League would require effort. So that’s a no for them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here- My question is more along the lines of why is an Ivy League the main goal. For example, the poster who wrote “don’t send your kid to a big 3 if you want to get to an Ivy.” IMO- isn’t it more about your kids getting an amazing education and having a good foundation? In addition, making sure that your kids develop EQ skills? If that means B average at a top private to gain those skills isn’t that preferable to your child going to a public school that doesn’t fit their academic needs just to maybe get into any Ivy. It seems to me that people who are successful have 1. Good writing/ math skills 2. Emotional intelligence. I don’t think going to an Ivy League sets you up the way people assume. Yes you have a good network but only if you know how to leverage it. Otherwise, it’s not like my classmates are doing miles ahead of others professionally. The ones who are super successful often came from successful families to begin with. At some point where you go to school doesn’t matter.

One could ask why people are so obsessed with sending their kid to a Big3 vs. any number of strong private schools in the DMV? I am not sure they are known for teaching EQ and EI skills. Why is the option go to a pressure-cooker Big3 and get a B or go public vs. maybe go a private that teaches the skills you mention and perhaps my kid gets As.

Many Big3 parents graduated from Top 10 schools themselves and have found professional success, so they have a template of attend Big3 + attend Top 10 and now you have multiple top networks working for you.

Look, there are definitely very successful people like Larry Ellison that basically told their kids to go to Pepperdine so they can surf all day because who cares where you go to college when you stand to inherit $50BN+ (his kids ended up at USC BTW)...but he seems like an outlier. Even Bezos, Musk and Gates' kids attended Top 5 schools.

Also, Bezos came from a LMC family in New Mexico, Musk came from SA and did not have much of a family network...even Zuckerberg's parents were dentists, but he doubled down by attending I think Andover (maybe Exeter) and then going to Harvard. They are truly super successful, yet did not come from generationally wealthy households.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is filled with prole strivers who are status obsessed. That's why. Most confident rich people don't give a damn about the Ivy League.

That’s true. The really rich people I know send their kids to SEC schools or SLACs like Colgate

For these people, college is a purchased experience

Ivy League would require effort. So that’s a no for them

Aagain not true.
By looking at the schools that the rich White people tried to buy into, SLACs are not the favorites at all.
There's not a single SLAC they tried to buy into.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varsity_Blues_scandal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grass is always greener. If you had been rejected, you’d feel sure your life would somehow be better if you had a Princeton degree.

And don’t insult the rest of us by pretending your connections and that name on your resume haven’t been powerful. And now your kid has legacy status. Really, you sound unaware and pampered. The middle class is dying. There’s a bigger gap between the have and the have nots. A lot of people are just plain afraid of slipping into a harder life.

+1000

This is it. The median price of a SFH in this area is $1 million. You’re either comfortable or poor. Hence the push for Ivies, into STEM, into tech/finance/consulting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here- My question is more along the lines of why is an Ivy League the main goal. For example, the poster who wrote “don’t send your kid to a big 3 if you want to get to an Ivy.” IMO- isn’t it more about your kids getting an amazing education and having a good foundation? In addition, making sure that your kids develop EQ skills? If that means B average at a top private to gain those skills isn’t that preferable to your child going to a public school that doesn’t fit their academic needs just to maybe get into any Ivy. It seems to me that people who are successful have 1. Good writing/ math skills 2. Emotional intelligence. I don’t think going to an Ivy League sets you up the way people assume. Yes you have a good network but only if you know how to leverage it. Otherwise, it’s not like my classmates are doing miles ahead of others professionally. The ones who are super successful often came from successful families to begin with. At some point where you go to school doesn’t matter.

OP where did you go to school? I mean, your real school. This is an anonymous forum, so be honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is filled with prole strivers who are status obsessed. That's why. Most confident rich people don't give a damn about the Ivy League.

Sure, that's why they try to find workarounds to buy their kids in. Les Wexner sent his kids to Harvard, Jamie Dimon sent his kids to Duke, Stephen Mandel sent his kids to Dartmouth, and so on and so forth.

Are you mingling with billionaires? Obviously you're not, so why cite 3 of them to prove your ridiculous point. When I say rich I mean multi-millionaires; $5 million to $50 million net worths. None of the millionaires I know are obsessed with the Ivy League. Their smart kids apply where ever they want. The most exclusive tend to be places like UVA, Vandy, Duke, Wake Forest and NYU. But often it's just small liberal arts colleges, if not some Southern "party" school. There is not this insatiable dog eat dog obsession with the "t20" or "t10" like the weirdos on here and College Confidential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is filled with prole strivers who are status obsessed. That's why. Most confident rich people don't give a damn about the Ivy League.

Sure, that's why they try to find workarounds to buy their kids in. Les Wexner sent his kids to Harvard, Jamie Dimon sent his kids to Duke, Stephen Mandel sent his kids to Dartmouth, and so on and so forth.

Are you mingling with billionaires? Obviously you're not, so why cite 3 of them to prove your ridiculous point. When I say rich I mean multi-millionaires; $5 million to $50 million net worths. None of the millionaires I know are obsessed with the Ivy League. Their smart kids apply where ever they want. The most exclusive tend to be places like UVA, Vandy, Duke, Wake Forest and NYU. But often it's just small liberal arts colleges, if not some Southern "party" school. There is not this insatiable dog eat dog obsession with the "t20" or "t10" like the weirdos on here and College Confidential.

You basically proved the point. If they're applying to Duke they're applying to ivies. Maybe even some of them aiming for Vanderbilt would apply to ivies too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Among all things with which a society could be obsessed, striving for admission to any in a group of exceptional universities is a positive.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe because there are posts that are basically the same as yours two or three times per week? You realize you are feeding the obsession, yes?

That said, I will take a crack. My own view is that because the incredible, outsized outcomes seem to be clustered in elite schools. If you look at the ranks of billionaire hedge fund, P/E, start-up founders, etc., it is shocking how it is clustered in just like 10 schools. Of course, not everyone graduated...but just look at the current thread on Open AI the current hottest tech start-up...Stanford drop-out, Harvard drop-out and Duke graduate. Look at the people/founders getting all the press currently...Musk from Penn, Zuckerberg from Harvard, Bezos from Princeton, etc. The amount of VC that flows to graduates of the top 10 schools is like 20x the amount flowing to all the other schools combined.

It is no different than if you are an athlete hoping to make it to the Pros. If you want to play pro football, sure you might get drafted out of North Dakota State, but the number of players drafted out of Alabama guarantees that every pro team is always paying attention to Alabama...while they only pay attention to North Dakota State because one player (Carson Wentz as an example) emerges to generate some buzz.

There will always be the folks arguing that Bezos would still have founded Amazon even if he had gone to the University of New Mexico...but of course he didn't and that is just theoretical. Yes, 98% of the graduates from Ivy League schools will go on to lead normal, decent lives...and some may fail miserably. But everyone thinks they can be in the 2% that succeed beyond anyone's wildest imagination.

But those "2% that succeed beyond anyone's wildest imagination" most likely would have done so wherever they went. It's their drive, intellectual curiosity and ability to get things done that got them there, the "attending the Ivy" is really only a small part, except for PE and IB where the connections do matter more.

More likely their family wealth and connections. So many of the 2% came from the 2% in terms of wealth/status