Metro warns of huge budget deficits and a death spiral

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure, it might not go away. Have fun waiting 30 minutes to 1 hour between trains though when that’s the only way ot can remain economically viable, lol.

Roads are not economically viable, lol.

But at least I don’t gotta be held hostage by ridiculous wait times like the metro is foreseeing because it is in massive trouble and needs to severely cut service in order to rein in costs.

So you have never sat in wall to wall traffic on 66 or I-95 or the BW Parkway, waiting hours of your life due to a traffic accident or construction or both? Because I have.

I've also watched as many of these roads build more and more lanes but make them toll lanes, so that even though my taxpayer dollars go to pay for the road itself (which is astronomically expensive, roads are a huge cost center), if I want the road to work well for me, I have to pay even more in tolls.

And the addition of lanes never seems to address the traffic issues, which get worse each year (other than a couple years of improvement during Covid). The only thing that would actually improve traffic concerns? Fewer cars on the road. Which means: better public transportation.

It is beyond myopic to argue that we should stop funding metro. That would just put MORE people on the roads. Who does that help? And most people are not paying the tolls and as a PP explained, the gas tax doesn't come close to covering the cost of roads, plus with the shift to EVs, we'll eventually see less gas tax revenue anyway. I mean, what is your plan here?

Glad the OP of this dumb thread is not actually in charge of transportation policy.

99% of the time my commute is fine. I can get to and from work in 10 minutes by driving. With the death spiral the metro is in it will take 1+ hours 100% of the time because it needs to cut service to the bone and wait times are going to explode to 30+ minutes or more between trains.

See the difference? Traffic due to accidents or construction isn’t a given. The metro taking forever will be guaranteed 100% of the time because it is in dire straits.


Nice try, thanks for playing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If metro dies, the city dies. It would be catastrophic. I would love for MD and VA to pay their fair share. Bowser should make this her #1 priority.

Don’t count on it. She can’t even get workers back into the city.

And if VA and MD send less workers from the burbs into the District, why should these states pay more to fund a system they get less benefit from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've gotten really sick of how much it costs to ride when most of the people I see entering the system aren't paying. It's $14 a day to park and ride from my close-in suburb but we've had hour+ long delays (Tuesday) and crime. I often choose to pay slightly more to park downtown. The train is crowded Tuesday through Thursday and not at all crowded on Monday and Friday. I'm not sure which feels safer. I try to only ride near rush hour because safety in numbers, but at least a couple violent attacks were at rush hour along my route (red line).

+1000


It’s already hella expensive. Now they’re gonna have to increase the price while providing less. Who’s gonna pay those outrageous prices per month. Drive.

If they want it to remain viable, ditch the union employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


99% of the time my commute is fine. I can get to and from work in 10 minutes by driving. With the death spiral the metro is in it will take 1+ hours 100% of the time because it needs to cut service to the bone and wait times are going to explode to 30+ minutes or more between trains.

See the difference? Traffic due to accidents or construction isn’t a given. The metro taking forever will be guaranteed 100% of the time because it is in dire straits.

Nice try, thanks for playing!

They absolutely are a given. That's why WTOP does "traffic and weather on the 8s". That's how routine they are.

However, I agree that all of the local jurisdictions must avoid a Metro death spiral, which will be bad for everyone, including people who refuse to take Metro and only ever drive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the reality of public transit:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/traffic/mission-metro/metro-warns-massive-service-cuts-death-spiral-transit-750-million-shortfall/65-9c0dc54f-8f65-46c4-8390-51e8108ac1a5


Where are the anti-car fascists now? Have fun going to work or doing things on the weekend. The anti-car crowd loves to give pie in the sky calculations that never account for human factors like crime, overrun costs, inefficiencies, and huge bloated salaries and benefits for the unionized workers bankrupting the system. So glad we are spending billions more on this black hole with the purple line. Watch, the only solution they’ll come up with is to increase taxes and to increase fares to outrageous prices. It has never dawned on them to start with common sense ideas like increasing safety and severely punishing fare evaders. Why should anyone pay of a huge portion of people ride for free already?

How fascinating that you have this all figured out. It’s fare dodgers and safety!!!! Who knew?

It has nothing to do with a permanent shift in the way people work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So keep on funding something losing almost $1B per year. Taxpayers have infinite wallets. Brilliant plan.

MCPS is losing $3 billion per year on schools. MC DOT is losing $61 million per year on roads. MD SHA is losing $359 million per year on roads.

So fund roads since it loses a lot less than the metro.

Mcps needs to be cut in half. What a bloated mess.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the poster who wants to stop funding public transit also wants to stop funding public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m super confused OP. How are the “anti-car fascists” responsible for Metro’s budget issues?

Fun fact: I can hate both cars AND the dysfunction of the DC metro. I strongly to prefer to ride metro over driving in this area but I don’t have any illusions that the metro is nice or well managed but I sure hope it doesn’t disappear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the reality of public transit:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/traffic/mission-metro/metro-warns-massive-service-cuts-death-spiral-transit-750-million-shortfall/65-9c0dc54f-8f65-46c4-8390-51e8108ac1a5


Where are the anti-car fascists now? Have fun going to work or doing things on the weekend. The anti-car crowd loves to give pie in the sky calculations that never account for human factors like crime, overrun costs, inefficiencies, and huge bloated salaries and benefits for the unionized workers bankrupting the system. So glad we are spending billions more on this black hole with the purple line. Watch, the only solution they’ll come up with is to increase taxes and to increase fares to outrageous prices. It has never dawned on them to start with common sense ideas like increasing safety and severely punishing fare evaders. Why should anyone pay of a huge portion of people ride for free already?

How fascinating that you have this all figured out. It’s fare dodgers and safety!!!! Who knew?

It has nothing to do with a permanent shift in the way people work?

The metro needs to adapt their cost structure to the shift in the way people work then. That means eliminating jobs, getting rid of grossly overpaid union workers, and more automation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the reality of public transit:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/traffic/mission-metro/metro-warns-massive-service-cuts-death-spiral-transit-750-million-shortfall/65-9c0dc54f-8f65-46c4-8390-51e8108ac1a5


Where are the anti-car fascists now? Have fun going to work or doing things on the weekend. The anti-car crowd loves to give pie in the sky calculations that never account for human factors like crime, overrun costs, inefficiencies, and huge bloated salaries and benefits for the unionized workers bankrupting the system. So glad we are spending billions more on this black hole with the purple line. Watch, the only solution they’ll come up with is to increase taxes and to increase fares to outrageous prices. It has never dawned on them to start with common sense ideas like increasing safety and severely punishing fare evaders. Why should anyone pay of a huge portion of people ride for free already?

How fascinating that you have this all figured out. It’s fare dodgers and safety!!!! Who knew?

It has nothing to do with a permanent shift in the way people work?

The metro needs to adapt their cost structure to the shift in the way people work then. That means eliminating jobs, getting rid of grossly overpaid union workers, and more automation.

So, Metro is actually doing that. And it doesn't mean eliminating jobs and union-busting. It means focusing less on morning/evening weekday peaks, and more on all-day and weekend frequencies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So keep on funding something losing almost $1B per year. Taxpayers have infinite wallets. Brilliant plan.

MCPS is losing $3 billion per year on schools. MC DOT is losing $61 million per year on roads. MD SHA is losing $359 million per year on roads.

So fund roads since it loses a lot less than the metro.

Mcps needs to be cut in half. What a bloated mess.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the poster who wants to stop funding public transit also wants to stop funding public schools.

Oh my god, will someone think of the schools and the children!

Same old hackneyed argument used to give mcps carte Blanche with zero accountability. Heaven forbid they’re forced to cut bloat and become accountable for their spending when they’re a black hole blowing up multiple billions in the red every year. Let me guess what the answer is to such grossly mismanaged finances and lack of accountability- spend more money!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So keep on funding something losing almost $1B per year. Taxpayers have infinite wallets. Brilliant plan.

MCPS is losing $3 billion per year on schools. MC DOT is losing $61 million per year on roads. MD SHA is losing $359 million per year on roads.

So fund roads since it loses a lot less than the metro.

Mcps needs to be cut in half. What a bloated mess.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the poster who wants to stop funding public transit also wants to stop funding public schools.

Oh my god, will someone think of the schools and the children!

Same old hackneyed argument used to give mcps carte Blanche with zero accountability. Heaven forbid they’re forced to cut bloat and become accountable for their spending when they’re a black hole blowing up multiple billions in the red every year. Let me guess what the answer is to such grossly mismanaged finances and lack of accountability- spend more money!

I mean, yes? I hope that people do. What's your point? Public transit and public schools are both public services provided by the government, using public funding, which benefit everyone in the public, whether or not they personally use those services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the reality of public transit:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/traffic/mission-metro/metro-warns-massive-service-cuts-death-spiral-transit-750-million-shortfall/65-9c0dc54f-8f65-46c4-8390-51e8108ac1a5


Where are the anti-car fascists now? Have fun going to work or doing things on the weekend. The anti-car crowd loves to give pie in the sky calculations that never account for human factors like crime, overrun costs, inefficiencies, and huge bloated salaries and benefits for the unionized workers bankrupting the system. So glad we are spending billions more on this black hole with the purple line. Watch, the only solution they’ll come up with is to increase taxes and to increase fares to outrageous prices. It has never dawned on them to start with common sense ideas like increasing safety and severely punishing fare evaders. Why should anyone pay of a huge portion of people ride for free already?

How fascinating that you have this all figured out. It’s fare dodgers and safety!!!! Who knew?

It has nothing to do with a permanent shift in the way people work?

The metro needs to adapt their cost structure to the shift in the way people work then. That means eliminating jobs, getting rid of grossly overpaid union workers, and more automation.

So, Metro is actually doing that. And it doesn't mean eliminating jobs and union-busting. It means focusing less on morning/evening weekday peaks, and more on all-day and weekend frequencies.

Which is exactly why it is a death spiral. They’ll keep cutting service. Which means it is less and less convenient. Which means less riders. Which means worsening finances. And the spiral goes on.

They’ll keep cutting service before they eliminate jobs and grossly overpaid salaries. It’ll ruin the entire thing because unions gotta milk the golden calf as long as they can before it dies.

[Anonymous]

Metro in its current form is obsolete, as it functions principally to get city-based workers to and from the suburbs.

We need a regional subway/rail system that supports getting across the city easily, as well as from major suburb to major suburb.

Unfortunately, as the Purple Line demonstrates, there is neither the money nor political will to do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Metro in its current form is obsolete, as it functions principally to get city-based workers to and from the suburbs.

We need a regional subway/rail system that supports getting across the city easily, as well as from major suburb to major suburb.

Unfortunately, as the Purple Line demonstrates, there is neither the money nor political will to do this.

The Purple Line that is actually currently getting built, finally? Is that the Purple Line you're referring to?

In the 1960s, Metro was designed and built to get office workers from the suburbs into office jobs in DC. However, now it's 2023, and it serves many other functions as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the reality of public transit:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/traffic/mission-metro/metro-warns-massive-service-cuts-death-spiral-transit-750-million-shortfall/65-9c0dc54f-8f65-46c4-8390-51e8108ac1a5


Where are the anti-car fascists now? Have fun going to work or doing things on the weekend. The anti-car crowd loves to give pie in the sky calculations that never account for human factors like crime, overrun costs, inefficiencies, and huge bloated salaries and benefits for the unionized workers bankrupting the system. So glad we are spending billions more on this black hole with the purple line. Watch, the only solution they’ll come up with is to increase taxes and to increase fares to outrageous prices. It has never dawned on them to start with common sense ideas like increasing safety and severely punishing fare evaders. Why should anyone pay of a huge portion of people ride for free already?

How fascinating that you have this all figured out. It’s fare dodgers and safety!!!! Who knew?

It has nothing to do with a permanent shift in the way people work?

The metro needs to adapt their cost structure to the shift in the way people work then. That means eliminating jobs, getting rid of grossly overpaid union workers, and more automation.

So, Metro is actually doing that. And it doesn't mean eliminating jobs and union-busting. It means focusing less on morning/evening weekday peaks, and more on all-day and weekend frequencies.

Which is exactly why it is a death spiral. They’ll keep cutting service. Which means it is less and less convenient. Which means less riders. Which means worsening finances. And the spiral goes on.

They’ll keep cutting service before they eliminate jobs and grossly overpaid salaries. It’ll ruin the entire thing because unions gotta milk the golden calf as long as they can before it dies.

It will only be a death spiral if the local jurisdictions allow it to be a death spiral. A death spiral would be a disaster for the local jurisdictions. So I hope you will advocate to your local jurisdiction to make Metro funding a priority.