Metro warns of huge budget deficits and a death spiral

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, maybe if the service they provided was better in the first place, I would use it more. I go into work 3 days per week, but always drive at least one of them. There are metro delays, it is crowded, and it is dirty.

How can it be crowded? OP assures us nobody is taking it!

But yes, what you're pointing to is the "death spiral." Funding shortfall, service cuts, less ridership, funding shortfall, service cuts, less ridership...

I answered a ridership survey a month or two ago (Maryland MTA, not WMATA), which asked how I would get to work if there were no transit. If there were no transit, I would be unable to get to work. It's as simple as that.

I'm in Loudoun county and they have these commuter buses that go from point A to point B in DC. They're amazing. They don't make many stops, have AC and internet (both of which I never see on Metro) and are fast.

[Anonymous]

How can it be crowded? OP assures us nobody is taking it!

My guess is because most people pick the same in-office days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How can it be crowded? OP assures us nobody is taking it!

My guess is because most people pick the same in-office days.

So, actually, people are taking it!

[Anonymous]

I don’t live near metro, so wouldn’t take it either way. I like the comfort of my Benz.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, maybe if the service they provided was better in the first place, I would use it more. I go into work 3 days per week, but always drive at least one of them. There are metro delays, it is crowded, and it is dirty.

How can it be crowded? OP assures us nobody is taking it!

But yes, what you're pointing to is the "death spiral." Funding shortfall, service cuts, less ridership, funding shortfall, service cuts, less ridership...

I answered a ridership survey a month or two ago (Maryland MTA, not WMATA), which asked how I would get to work if there were no transit. If there were no transit, I would be unable to get to work. It's as simple as that.

I'm in Loudoun county and they have these commuter buses that go from point A to point B in DC. They're amazing. They don't make many stops, have AC and internet (both of which I never see on Metro) and are fast.

That's great for people who live in Loudoun County and use transit in DC for their to-office and from-office commutes. However, transit in general serves a lot more people for a lot more uses, and so does the Metro train in particular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the reality of public transit:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/traffic/mission-metro/metro-warns-massive-service-cuts-death-spiral-transit-750-million-shortfall/65-9c0dc54f-8f65-46c4-8390-51e8108ac1a5


Where are the anti-car fascists now? Have fun going to work or doing things on the weekend. The anti-car crowd loves to give pie in the sky calculations that never account for human factors like crime, overrun costs, inefficiencies, and huge bloated salaries and benefits for the unionized workers bankrupting the system. So glad we are spending billions more on this black hole with the purple line. Watch, the only solution they’ll come up with is to increase taxes and to increase fares to outrageous prices. It has never dawned on them to start with common sense ideas like increasing safety and severely punishing fare evaders. Why should anyone pay of a huge portion of people ride for free already?

I am not anti-car but I take the metro and the bus a ton and think that we are comparing apples and oranges here. Roads for drivers are completely subsidized by taxes without user fees (at least within DC). Gas taxes don't even come close to paying for road construction and maintenance. Yet when the state or city needs money for roads, we budget money for it in the council, legislature, etc. We don't say that the use of roads is in a "budget deficit death spiral" because they aren't paid for by the users. Let's do the same with public transportation.

+1

Should we stop investing in sidewalks since pedestrians don't even pay for them?

Ceasing investment in public transportation would be so short-sighted and likely very costly down the road for the this area. We have no idea what transportation is going to look like in 20 years, or 50. Abandoning metro or buses because of current challenges would be a great way to put our metropolitan area at a serious disadvantage relative to other cities who are more forward looking. I don't feel we can even say with confidence things like "WFH is here to stay" (talk to people determining WFH policies for major companies and professional firms -- it's not that straightforward at all). I also don't know what the shift away from gas-powered cars (which is definitely coming) is going to look like for car ownership and driving.

Is OP actually suggesting that we should just... abandon metro? That's insane, and I say that as someone who doesn't use it often (I walk to work and drive most places on the weekend). Metro is a major part of DC's value proposition to young workers (it allows people to move here for jobs without buying cars, something I did 20 years ago), and thus also a major part of its value proposition to business. Look at Amazon's investment in Crystal City/National Landing, which absolutely hinged, in part, on a new metro stop to serve that area.

Metro is really vital to this area and we have to find a way to make it work. And yes, it will cost money. Guess what -- roads and bridges cost enormous amounts of money too. I'd never suggest we stop building those, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the reality of public transit:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/traffic/mission-metro/metro-warns-massive-service-cuts-death-spiral-transit-750-million-shortfall/65-9c0dc54f-8f65-46c4-8390-51e8108ac1a5


Where are the anti-car fascists now? Have fun going to work or doing things on the weekend. The anti-car crowd loves to give pie in the sky calculations that never account for human factors like crime, overrun costs, inefficiencies, and huge bloated salaries and benefits for the unionized workers bankrupting the system. So glad we are spending billions more on this black hole with the purple line. Watch, the only solution they’ll come up with is to increase taxes and to increase fares to outrageous prices. It has never dawned on them to start with common sense ideas like increasing safety and severely punishing fare evaders. Why should anyone pay of a huge portion of people ride for free already?

I am not anti-car but I take the metro and the bus a ton and think that we are comparing apples and oranges here. Roads for drivers are completely subsidized by taxes without user fees (at least within DC). Gas taxes don't even come close to paying for road construction and maintenance. Yet when the state or city needs money for roads, we budget money for it in the council, legislature, etc. We don't say that the use of roads is in a "budget deficit death spiral" because they aren't paid for by the users. Let's do the same with public transportation.

+1

Should we stop investing in sidewalks since pedestrians don't even pay for them?

Ceasing investment in public transportation would be so short-sighted and likely very costly down the road for the this area. We have no idea what transportation is going to look like in 20 years, or 50. Abandoning metro or buses because of current challenges would be a great way to put our metropolitan area at a serious disadvantage relative to other cities who are more forward looking. I don't feel we can even say with confidence things like "WFH is here to stay" (talk to people determining WFH policies for major companies and professional firms -- it's not that straightforward at all). I also don't know what the shift away from gas-powered cars (which is definitely coming) is going to look like for car ownership and driving.

Is OP actually suggesting that we should just... abandon metro? That's insane, and I say that as someone who doesn't use it often (I walk to work and drive most places on the weekend). Metro is a major part of DC's value proposition to young workers (it allows people to move here for jobs without buying cars, something I did 20 years ago), and thus also a major part of its value proposition to business. Look at Amazon's investment in Crystal City/National Landing, which absolutely hinged, in part, on a new metro stop to serve that area.

Metro is really vital to this area and we have to find a way to make it work. And yes, it will cost money. Guess what -- roads and bridges cost enormous amounts of money too. I'd never suggest we stop building those, either.

I would. Yes, we should maintain the roads and road bridges we currently have. But we really, really have to stop building new/bigger roads and road bridges. Completely aside from the environmental aspects, it's fiscally unsustainable. It's a Ponzi scheme. There's always money to build new/bigger roads, there's never money to maintain them once they're built.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised when I moved here that the trains aren't automated and that they actually had drivers. Surely they could be automated 100% or controlled remotely.

They were automated, until a fatal crash on the Red line. They're supposed to be moving back to automation, but with human drivers as backups.

[Anonymous]

Funny how feds have been either out of work for 3 years, or now most working 3/5 of the time at most, and the world hasn't ended. Maybe time to slim down the bureaucracy, move agencies out of DC, and let the metro die its necessary death to be rebuilt not as a jobs program for dc residents but as a real functioning system for an economy rebuilt on solid footing.

[Anonymous]

If metro dies, the city dies. It would be catastrophic. I would love for MD and VA to pay their fair share. Bowser should make this her #1 priority.

[Anonymous]

You cannot have a successful, safe city without a robust public transport system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny how feds have been either out of work for 3 years, or now most working 3/5 of the time at most, and the world hasn't ended. Maybe time to slim down the bureaucracy, move agencies out of DC, and let the metro die its necessary death to be rebuilt not as a jobs program for dc residents but as a real functioning system for an economy rebuilt on solid footing.

Umm remote work is still work and fed productivity did not decline because workers are not sitting in cubicle farms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny how feds have been either out of work for 3 years, or now most working 3/5 of the time at most, and the world hasn't ended. Maybe time to slim down the bureaucracy, move agencies out of DC, and let the metro die its necessary death to be rebuilt not as a jobs program for dc residents but as a real functioning system for an economy rebuilt on solid footing.

What on earth? The feds have been working this whole time.

"Letting Metro die its necessary death" and starting over makes exactly as much sense as tearing up all of the roads and starting over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t the solution be to make federal workers come back into the office?

This would be great if some agencies hadn't given up their office space...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They should have made hay while the sun was shining. It's been mismanaged and misran for years. Plus now they have all the crime problems from lax policing and prosecuting.

Not to mention all the maintenance issues from decades of neglect and mismanagement.