The insane cost of elder care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

We did not experience this. There was a small increase the second year.

Yes, there absolutely are places that are $3-5k per month for dementia.

Please provide a link to this place!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

You don't have to be "independently wealthy" to buy LTC. People just don't choose to spend their money that way. My in-laws did. And we will too. My father is broke enough that we will just spend down his assets and use Medicaid.

This is just not true, this insurance is ridiculously expensive. My parents had two policies (that did not kick in for 180 days so you're stuck with the cost early on) and the lovely state of Md decided that it was okay for the premiums to increase even though their policy was sold as a lifetime locked premium. This from a very reputable insurance company. As soon as MD passed the law the insurance company doubled their monthly premiums and that was in their fifties. They had to let it go by the time they retired because the premium cost over time out weighed their possible redeeming any usage. It was not inexpensive and I hate when people throw it around as if you are a total loser for not having it. LTC is for the WEALTHY but it will become insolvent with all the wealthy boomers who purchased it once they start cashing in, there just aren't enough policy holders to support that coming disaster.

[Anonymous]

We moved our parents into our divorced sister's house, she had lots of room and lived in a large rambler type situation. We then used the sale proceeds from my parent's house to pay for 24/7 aides to work at her house until they both passed. Their retirement was never touched because they passed relatively soon after moving in with her. Thank goodness she had the wherewithal to handle this situation, many are not blessed with siblings who can go all in on their parents care. I'll never be able to repay her for this, never.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

That is a lot of money.

$4000x12=$48000 for just one year

Yes, and much more than the typical SS check.

The average person is in this type of care for 2 years max. Regardless it’s a fraction of the insane amounts some are spending. If you go to a facility owned by a large corporation it’s $$$$$

My mother is in a nonprofit facility. She's needed high level care for 3.5 years now. Needs help dressing, walking, transferring, toileting, bathing. No heroic measures have been taken, unless you consider preparing her food, changing her clothes, getting her in and out of bed, and getting her to the toilet to be "heroic." (Actually, I do think her caregivers are heroic, but that's not what one generally means when one talks about "heroic measures.") $3-5k/month? LMAO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We moved our parents into our divorced sister's house, she had lots of room and lived in a large rambler type situation. We then used the sale proceeds from my parent's house to pay for 24/7 aides to work at her house until they both passed. Their retirement was never touched because they passed relatively soon after moving in with her. Thank goodness she had the wherewithal to handle this situation, many are not blessed with siblings who can go all in on their parents care. I'll never be able to repay her for this, never.

You are a really great sibling to recognize and appreciate your sister's care and efforts. I wish you both were my sisters!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

We did not experience this. There was a small increase the second year.

Yes, there absolutely are places that are $3-5k per month for dementia.

Please provide a link to this place!

Cedar Glen might be the company. In Maryland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We moved our parents into our divorced sister's house, she had lots of room and lived in a large rambler type situation. We then used the sale proceeds from my parent's house to pay for 24/7 aides to work at her house until they both passed. Their retirement was never touched because they passed relatively soon after moving in with her. Thank goodness she had the wherewithal to handle this situation, many are not blessed with siblings who can go all in on their parents care. I'll never be able to repay her for this, never.

It's not just a willingness to go all in--it's the ABILITY to do it as well. You need a bedroom and bath on the first floor and someone who is able to supervise aides 24/7 and easily fill in if an aide doesn't show. IME, being that supervisor is pretty close to a full-time job itself.

You are right that you will never be able to repay your sister!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

We did not experience this. There was a small increase the second year.

Yes, there absolutely are places that are $3-5k per month for dementia.

Please provide a link to this place!

Here is one company

https://www.avalonresidentialliving.com/

There are companies like this all over the US. Numerous ones in the dmv. Half the price as larger places like Atria. You certainly don’t need to spend $10-12k per month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

That is a lot of money.

$4000x12=$48000 for just one year

Yes, and much more than the typical SS check.

The average person is in this type of care for 2 years max. Regardless it’s a fraction of the insane amounts some are spending. If you go to a facility owned by a large corporation it’s $$$$$

My mother is in a nonprofit facility. She's needed high level care for 3.5 years now. Needs help dressing, walking, transferring, toileting, bathing. No heroic measures have been taken, unless you consider preparing her food, changing her clothes, getting her in and out of bed, and getting her to the toilet to be "heroic." (Actually, I do think her caregivers are heroic, but that's not what one generally means when one talks about "heroic measures.") $3-5k/month? LMAO.

Avalon is between 4-5k
https://www.avalonresidentialliving.com/services

I do feel bad you paid much more than this. If you’re panicking I can see how you’d think you need to spend $10-12k per month.

It’s like claiming you have to spend $70k on private college. No, you can attend community college and it’s a fraction of the cost. There are people on this forum who will swear you need $450k to educate your child. There are plenty of people who don’t spend anything close to this. Similar story with elder care. Most people don’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on eldercare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and his brothers pay for non-licensed aides to take care of their mother round the clock in her own apartment. She has always said she did not wish to go to a nursing home. They looked for aides from her own community, speaking her own language and cooking her cuisine. They are cheaper than
"official" senior aides because they have practically no education (not sure they even graduated high school), but after a decade of shopping for my MIL, cooking, cleaning, giving massages, and helping with very complex medication needs and increasing toileting needs, they have proved themselves very caring and trustworthy people. They are supervised, of course, by the son who lives nearby.

So in the end it comes to less than 5K a month, for an advanced Parkinson's patient owning her own apartment and with one child able to physically visit once every two days.

$5k/month for round-the clock caregivers would mean less than $7.50/hour. Licensed or not, this doesn't add up.

Round-the-clock care means 168 hrs/week. If you're only paying $5k/month, that's less than $7.50 per hour.

My FIL's round-the-clock caregivers cost $30/hour. Entry level. For one caregiver on duty 24/7, that's $5,000 per WEEK.

PP you replied to. No, the price for night time is much cheaper than the cost for daytime, where shopping/cleaning/cooking/conversation is involved. At night the caregiver has their own room and sleeps, basically, only to be rung if ever my MIL needs help, which she doesn't right now, except the occasional bathroom visit. As I explained, there is no entry level, none of this follows standards, the people hired do not have any degrees. The aides are happy to get the work. Since they're all from my MIL's native country and speak the same language, it's hard to explain, but there is a sense of loyalty and there is a bond. They know my MIL will never fire them until she dies, because she knows they depend on the income. And they know they will be recommended to her friends and relatives if they are trustworthy. So it works out.

It's really nice. There are situations where it's best to do that rather than hire formally trained expensive nurses that have no particular loyalty to the patient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

You’re doing such a disservice making this claim. It’s why people pay $12k per month for care and drain accounts. They don’t know any better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

I really think people should consider an earlier exit rather than see their entire life savings just get given to some nursing home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved our parents into our divorced sister's house, she had lots of room and lived in a large rambler type situation. We then used the sale proceeds from my parent's house to pay for 24/7 aides to work at her house until they both passed. Their retirement was never touched because they passed relatively soon after moving in with her. Thank goodness she had the wherewithal to handle this situation, many are not blessed with siblings who can go all in on their parents care. I'll never be able to repay her for this, never.

You are a really great sibling to recognize and appreciate your sister's care and efforts. I wish you both were my sisters!

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I plan to self-euthanize once I can no longer live independently. I’m not going to enrich some crooked private industry because I’ve kept myself in good health. I’d rather leave money and assets to my kids at age eighty than spend $100k a year for an additinal 10-15 years to gaze out of a window being fed cafeteria food and missing my old life.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I plan to self-euthanize once I can no longer live independently. I’m not going to enrich some crooked private industry because I’ve kept myself in good health. I’d rather leave money and assets to my kids at age eighty than spend $100k a year for an additinal 10-15 years to gaze out of a window being fed cafeteria food and missing my old life.

+1

So many say this, so few do it. Your life feels different at every age.