The insane cost of elder care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why after age 65, I will not seek any life saving medical care.
I don't want to pay, nor have my relatives pay, tens of thousands of dollars for me to merely exist in a LTC facility.

I agree!! Ridiculous. Also, people should house their parents/grandparents if possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why after age 65, I will not seek any life saving medical care.
I don't want to pay, nor have my relatives pay, tens of thousands of dollars for me to merely exist in a LTC facility.

Talk to us when you are 65 and tell us if you feel the same way.

Ok, 65 is young, but what about 70, or 75? It’s really nearing the end of a lifespan. My father is kept alive by insane drugs, procedures, scans, experimental therapies. He is an alcoholic and has never taken care of his health, and yet he clings on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband and his brothers pay for non-licensed aides to take care of their mother round the clock in her own apartment. She has always said she did not wish to go to a nursing home. They looked for aides from her own community, speaking her own language and cooking her cuisine. They are cheaper than
"official" senior aides because they have practically no education (not sure they even graduated high school), but after a decade of shopping for my MIL, cooking, cleaning, giving massages, and helping with very complex medication needs and increasing toileting needs, they have proved themselves very caring and trustworthy people. They are supervised, of course, by the son who lives nearby.

So in the end it comes to less than 5K a month, for an advanced Parkinson's patient owning her own apartment and with one child able to physically visit once every two days.

$5k/month for round-the clock caregivers would mean less than $7.50/hour. Licensed or not, this doesn't add up.

Round-the-clock care means 168 hrs/week. If you're only paying $5k/month, that's less than $7.50 per hour.

My FIL's round-the-clock caregivers cost $30/hour. Entry level. For one caregiver on duty 24/7, that's $5,000 per WEEK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any countries out there that provide an equivalent level/amount of care for the elderly as one would expect at one of these expensive facilities but for a much more reasonable cost? Or is this a US thing?

My neighbor is of Indian descent and her father still lives in India. Apparently, the gov. provides 24 hr care for him (he's 90+). He can't come to the US anymore b/c they can no longer buy temporary health ins. for him. And he gets better care in India.

I have family that got their parents green cards and they eventually became citizens. Now in their 80s, they qualify for Medicaid but the quality of care and services is terrible! Doctors appointments take forever. One of the parents needs extensive care - can't walk properly, needs someone to walk him to the bathroom (may fall and has fallen down several times if no one is watching, etc.) - but according to medicaid doctors not at a point, not enough to be recommended for a care facility. They complain about awesome things would have been in India - 24/7 care, same day access doctors/specialists and hospitals, etc. but can't return because all kids are here and no one in India to take care of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and his brothers pay for non-licensed aides to take care of their mother round the clock in her own apartment. She has always said she did not wish to go to a nursing home. They looked for aides from her own community, speaking her own language and cooking her cuisine. They are cheaper than
"official" senior aides because they have practically no education (not sure they even graduated high school), but after a decade of shopping for my MIL, cooking, cleaning, giving massages, and helping with very complex medication needs and increasing toileting needs, they have proved themselves very caring and trustworthy people. They are supervised, of course, by the son who lives nearby.

So in the end it comes to less than 5K a month, for an advanced Parkinson's patient owning her own apartment and with one child able to physically visit once every two days.

$5k/month for round-the clock caregivers would mean less than $7.50/hour. Licensed or not, this doesn't add up.

Round-the-clock care means 168 hrs/week. If you're only paying $5k/month, that's less than $7.50 per hour.

My FIL's round-the-clock caregivers cost $30/hour. Entry level. For one caregiver on duty 24/7, that's $5,000 per WEEK.

Yes, prior PP’s husband and brothers sound like they’re exploiting uneducated women from a certain ethnic group who need the work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

We’re getting fleeced.

Thank God, my mother has chosen to not have extraordinary lifesaving interventions, on an ethical basis. She says she’s already had a long, productive and happy life. She wants to go when her time is up. At a certain point, I’ll have similar directives in place. And certainly no organ “donations”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

My ILs planned carefully and did have an idea of what elder care costs. However, FIL lived to be 97 and MIL is now 99. I'm not sure it was mathematically possible for them to save enough for expenses for so long. (I suspect if FIL had known he was going to live so long, he would have worked for several more years instead of retiring at 66--that would have helped.)

MIL gets SS plus the survivor benefit from FIL's pension. This covers about half of her assisted living expenses and the rest comes out of savings. She has enough savings to get her through another 18 months. I have no idea what we will do after that, and I sincerely hope she doesn't live that long.

In our experience, assisted living is cheaper for someone who needs round-the-clock care. MIL desperately wanted to stay in her home after FIL died, thank god we moved her or she would already have exhausted her savings. She is miserable in this AL facility that is very highly rated and considered quite nice. But she is almost bed-bound now. It's no way to live.

My DH makes noises occasionally about retiring and my answer is NO. He could live for another 35 years, there is no way he can afford to stop working yet. In his mind, being the on-call person for his mother is taking years off his life....honestly, he may not be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

You don't have to be "independently wealthy" to buy LTC. People just don't choose to spend their money that way. My in-laws did. And we will too. My father is broke enough that we will just spend down his assets and use Medicaid.

If you haven't already purchased LTC insurance, you are in for a surprise. It costs a fortune and covers very little. Insurance companies took a bath on their early policies, and they are not about to let that happen again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any countries out there that provide an equivalent level/amount of care for the elderly as one would expect at one of these expensive facilities but for a much more reasonable cost? Or is this a US thing?

My neighbor is of Indian descent and her father still lives in India. Apparently, the gov. provides 24 hr care for him (he's 90+). He can't come to the US anymore b/c they can no longer buy temporary health ins. for him. And he gets better care in India.

He was likely a govt worker to get that. But it doesn't matter really because in India you can spend the equivalent of ~$500 USD/month and have excellent round the clock nursing care--typically 2 nurses that work opposing shifts. That would cost $20K+/month in US, likely closer to $30K and no guarantee that the nurses don't just not show up---nursing care is hard to get consistency for only $25/hour.

I'm the PP that asked the question about other countries and I'm Indian. I'm aware of the in-home care available in India but that's too unstructured though. Are you saying that there are US quality nursing facilities in India? If so, can you name some? Thanks!

No clue about that. I'm talking about in home nursing care and it is not unstructured if you do it properly. We used that for my ILs--had sibling from US living there for several years who made the connections. And even got the needed visas to bring the nurses to the USA when ILs came here to live with family. So in India it was consistent care---2 nurses sharing the shifts and willing to provide living arrangements for them as well if needed. Once nurses came to USA they lived with the family taking care of the ILs and were essentially family to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We found a small assisted living in a house in the neighborhood for $3K. Great care and relative is happy

Where do you live and what kind of care is your relative receiving?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

Uh huh. In the DC area for someone who needs a high level of care? Do tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

That is a lot of money.

$4000x12=$48000 for just one year

Yes, and much more than the typical SS check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

They may start you out at that rate... but 6 mos later, that place is bought out by XXX company, and the price goes up to $6500/mo. Then another 6 mos later, they do an assessment and decide the needs have increased (although it's mostly the same as it was in the beginning) and the price goes up to $8000/mo. By this point, your parent is familiar with the routines/people at this place, so you don't want to move him/her b/c it will likely cause agitation and even more confusion.... and besides that, there are waiting lists for the other places (that are cheaper). So, you figure it can't be THAT long before they don't need any care at all. And time goes on...

The "retirement savings" of $250,000 are dwindling down month by month (after using all the parent's SS and military pension first, and then drawing the remaining balance from the retirement savings). The parent who is fully healthy stays in the marital home, but honestly, is going to be a lot better off financially when the dementia parent dies b/c she will get the use of the spousal portion of the military pension and the widow portion of the SS. For people in the midwest who stopped working 20+ yrs ago (now in their 80's) -- whose salaries were never comparable to what people earn today (and on the coasts), $250k was a very respectable retirement nestegg. But, when you start drawing down several thousand per month, and that goes on for years... it shows you where the gaps are in our care system.

I don't think it's correct to suggest that there are places for people with dementia at $3-5k/mo. That's more of a way to get people into the facility... and it assumes they are low-needs/high-functioning. That's just not the case for most people who are progressing through dementia -- they need full care.

We did not experience this. There was a small increase the second year.

Yes, there absolutely are places that are $3-5k per month for dementia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

+1. Unless you/your family has recenlty had to deal with elder care, you just don't get it. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can never save enough. And this is why more and more parents are moving in with their children - the money starts to run out.

Nope. There are plenty of places that are $3-5k a month.

That is a lot of money.

$4000x12=$48000 for just one year

Yes, and much more than the typical SS check.

The average person is in this type of care for 2 years max. Regardless it’s a fraction of the insane amounts some are spending. If you go to a facility owned by a large corporation it’s $$$$$

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents thought they had planned carefully but had no comprehension of elder care costs in the 21st century (neither did us kids). They were an accountant and administrative assistant with modest pensions and <$1 million in other savings. It's all gone after years of those $10k/month bills. My Dad passed at 86 and my 88-year old Mom is moving to a Medicaid facility this summer.

Sometimes that's how it goes when you get old. I have no better suggestion other than to not be sick for very long at the end.

Precisely what happened to us. My dad went to level 4 LTC at Hebrew Home in Rockville at 15K/month. Previously he'd had 24-hour private nurses at his home at ca. 30k/month. We burned through his savings, and his house sale proceeds, like a match through dry grass.

Now that he has passed, I'm wondering what to do in my own old age. "Not being sick for very long at the end" is the only solution in the US, unless you are very wealthy indeed.

We’re getting fleeced.

Thank God, my mother has chosen to not have extraordinary lifesaving interventions, on an ethical basis. She says she’s already had a long, productive and happy life. She wants to go when her time is up. At a certain point, I’ll have similar directives in place. And certainly no organ “donations”.

It's not the extraordinary lifesaving interventions that bankrupt most elderly people. Those costs are predominantly covered by Medicare. It's the day-to-day care that is not covered by Medicaid unless you are already bankrupt. At a certain point, you may have had enough, but your body may have very different ideas. Better have a plan for euthanasia in place. You have no idea how long a body can keep on going, well after quality of life has nosedived.