Is Taylor Swift a Genius?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a generation of women who really see themselves in her lyrics, and that is why she’s so popular. She also loves connecting with her fans in an intimate way (the “eggs” she leaves in her video and on social media, etc). She’s derided because she makes music for and about being a young woman. I would agree she’s not a particularly talented singer, but she is an incredible performer. I mean, three hour stadium shows every weekend for six months is nothing to turn your nose up at.

All fine. Still not a genius unless we are talking about her business/branding acumen. Not a musical/artistic genius.

[Anonymous]

I like Swift, but she's no genius. Now, Mozart was a musical genius.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I really respect what she's done but I don't think she's a genius. I think a significant part of her success is her skill in marketing herself. It's also really unclear to me how much of the actual music she writes. I understand she writes pretty much all her lyrics, and she's a very good lyricist. But it's never been clear to me if she is composing much of this music herself, especially for her bigger hits, which tend to be more heavily produced.

Has it really gotten to the point where a singer who writes her own songs is considered a genius?
And who cares if she writes them? Her song are all mid.

I agree with you. There are songwriters who were geniuses, but Taylor Swift is not among them. As much as her fans make a big deal about her lyrics, it's not what has made her famous and successful -- it's her brand, the production around her, combined with music that doesn't provoke or innovate really at all. She has a nice voice and she does play her own instruments sometimes. But is she hugely different than, say, Katy Perry? More talented or innovative than Janelle Monae? Not really. There's nothing ground breaking about her.

I have no idea what Katy Perry is doing in your post -- she's a terrible songwriter and has no abilities in other areas. I guess she puts on a fun show, which isn't nothing.

The average person would group them together as pop stars who sing about similar subjects and put on similar shows. I actually have more fondness for Katy Perry because her hits are much catchier and I like that she’s less perfect/pretentious. Long live Left Shark.

Does Katy Perry write songs at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I really respect what she's done but I don't think she's a genius. I think a significant part of her success is her skill in marketing herself. It's also really unclear to me how much of the actual music she writes. I understand she writes pretty much all her lyrics, and she's a very good lyricist. But it's never been clear to me if she is composing much of this music herself, especially for her bigger hits, which tend to be more heavily produced.

Has it really gotten to the point where a singer who writes her own songs is considered a genius?
And who cares if she writes them? Her song are all mid.

I agree with you. There are songwriters who were geniuses, but Taylor Swift is not among them. As much as her fans make a big deal about her lyrics, it's not what has made her famous and successful -- it's her brand, the production around her, combined with music that doesn't provoke or innovate really at all. She has a nice voice and she does play her own instruments sometimes. But is she hugely different than, say, Katy Perry? More talented or innovative than Janelle Monae? Not really. There's nothing ground breaking about her.

I have no idea what Katy Perry is doing in your post -- she's a terrible songwriter and has no abilities in other areas. I guess she puts on a fun show, which isn't nothing.

The average person would group them together as pop stars who sing about similar subjects and put on similar shows. I actually have more fondness for Katy Perry because her hits are much catchier and I like that she’s less perfect/pretentious. Long live Left Shark.

Does Katy Perry write songs at all?

Yes, she’s written or co-written most of her songs and also written songs for Britney, Iggy Azalea, Selena Gomez and others.

I’m not arguing that Katy Perry is a genius but it’s weird to argue Taylor swift is uniquely talented and that a comparison to Katy Perry is wrong when they have remarkably similar careers in the same genre of music. They are peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taylor doesn’t just write her own songs. She’s written hits for many other artists.

Does she write her own songs or are most of them co-written?

She single-handedly wrote every song on Speak Now. However, she does often use co-writers, recently mostly Jack Antonoff.

That's what she says. Every musician has a weakness and it's well known that artists conceal who actually wrote and/or contributed to a song.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she is - in the same vein as Tom Petty. If you don’t like her, too bad, because you will be hearing her songs in the background of American life for the rest of your life.

This might be true, but almost none of her songs are as catchy/memorable of most of Petty’s greatest hits. Like name ONE Taylor Swift song that people who are not specifically Taylor Swift fans know all the words to (I can think of any). And then think of American Girl, Free Falling, Wildflowers, Take the Money and Run, etc. etc. I was born in 1980, so kind of young for Tom Petty, and I know all those songs despite never owning an album. I own two Taylor Swift albums and have seen her live and I don’t think I know all the words to any of her songs.

People who think Taylor Swift is a musical genius usually just have limited exposure to other music. It’s like people who think Harry Potter are the best books of all time. They are fine, they have their place, they are popular for a reason. But if you think they are the pinnacle of literature, or even children’s literature, you simply are not well read. The same with Swift.

PP here - Take the Money and Run is Steve Miller.

You belong to me
Shake it off
Anti hero
I knew you were trouble
Blank space
Style
Bad Blood

Seriously? All of these are ear worms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she is - in the same vein as Tom Petty. If you don’t like her, too bad, because you will be hearing her songs in the background of American life for the rest of your life.

This might be true, but almost none of her songs are as catchy/memorable of most of Petty’s greatest hits. Like name ONE Taylor Swift song that people who are not specifically Taylor Swift fans know all the words to (I can think of any). And then think of American Girl, Free Falling, Wildflowers, Take the Money and Run, etc. etc. I was born in 1980, so kind of young for Tom Petty, and I know all those songs despite never owning an album. I own two Taylor Swift albums and have seen her live and I don’t think I know all the words to any of her songs.

People who think Taylor Swift is a musical genius usually just have limited exposure to other music. It’s like people who think Harry Potter are the best books of all time. They are fine, they have their place, they are popular for a reason. But if you think they are the pinnacle of literature, or even children’s literature, you simply are not well read. The same with Swift.

PP here - Take the Money and Run is Steve Miller.

You belong to me
Shake it off
Anti hero
I knew you were trouble
Blank space
Style
Bad Blood

Seriously? All of these are ear worms.

NP They really aren’t (I’m not even familiar with at least 2-3 of them). And they aren’t songs anyone is going to be talking about forever except Taylor Ssift fans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she is - in the same vein as Tom Petty. If you don’t like her, too bad, because you will be hearing her songs in the background of American life for the rest of your life.

This might be true, but almost none of her songs are as catchy/memorable of most of Petty’s greatest hits. Like name ONE Taylor Swift song that people who are not specifically Taylor Swift fans know all the words to (I can think of any). And then think of American Girl, Free Falling, Wildflowers, Take the Money and Run, etc. etc. I was born in 1980, so kind of young for Tom Petty, and I know all those songs despite never owning an album. I own two Taylor Swift albums and have seen her live and I don’t think I know all the words to any of her songs.

People who think Taylor Swift is a musical genius usually just have limited exposure to other music. It’s like people who think Harry Potter are the best books of all time. They are fine, they have their place, they are popular for a reason. But if you think they are the pinnacle of literature, or even children’s literature, you simply are not well read. The same with Swift.

PP here - Take the Money and Run is Steve Miller.

You belong to me
Shake it off
Anti hero
I knew you were trouble
Blank space
Style
Bad Blood

Seriously? All of these are ear worms.

Shake it off and Bad Blood are the only two I could sing you the chorus of, and honestly not even sure I'd get the whole chorus, just the hook. I would not rank either song high on my list of hits from the 2000s -- I can think of songs by Phantogram, St. Vincent, Florence and the Machine, Lana Del Ray, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Waxahatchee, and others that I find catchier and more memorable (with amazing lyrics). The rest of that list I don't know. And I listen to a lot of music and I'm not a music snob -- I listen to whatever. And it's not about Taylor being a woman, since every artist/band I just listed is a woman or fronted by a woman. It's about the fact that she makes a lot of music that sounds pretty similar and is not musically that inventive or interesting. I get she has her audience -- that's great and I'm happy to see a young woman running her career as she wants and making bank. More of that, please. But no, she's not a musical genius, she's not even among the top 10 or 20 most artistically successful or interesting musicians of her generation.

[Anonymous]

Such snobs on this board. It’s really entertaining all of you trying to out-smug one another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Such snobs on this board. It’s really entertaining all of you trying to out-smug one another.

You’re a snob and smug if you don’t like Taylor Swift?

Well that’s a new one.

[Anonymous]

I don’t care if you like her or not, but the apparent musical experts on this thread are hilarious. Get over yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if you like her or not, but the apparent musical experts on this thread are hilarious. Get over yourselves.

I agree. You should definitely get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

I think so. I don’t think it matters if you don’t think so. She is the moment. She will be remembered as a genius.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think so. I don’t think it matters if you don’t think so. She is the moment. She will be remembered as a genius.

She'll be remembered as a very successful musical artist and performer. She will have legions of fans for life because they loved her at a formative time of their lives. I would even believe people calling her a business genius, but she is not a musical genius.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she is - in the same vein as Tom Petty. If you don’t like her, too bad, because you will be hearing her songs in the background of American life for the rest of your life.

This might be true, but almost none of her songs are as catchy/memorable of most of Petty’s greatest hits. Like name ONE Taylor Swift song that people who are not specifically Taylor Swift fans know all the words to (I can think of any). And then think of American Girl, Free Falling, Wildflowers, Take the Money and Run, etc. etc. I was born in 1980, so kind of young for Tom Petty, and I know all those songs despite never owning an album. I own two Taylor Swift albums and have seen her live and I don’t think I know all the words to any of her songs.

People who think Taylor Swift is a musical genius usually just have limited exposure to other music. It’s like people who think Harry Potter are the best books of all time. They are fine, they have their place, they are popular for a reason. But if you think they are the pinnacle of literature, or even children’s literature, you simply are not well read. The same with Swift.

PP here - Take the Money and Run is Steve Miller.

You belong to me
Shake it off
Anti hero
I knew you were trouble
Blank space
Style
Bad Blood

Seriously? All of these are ear worms.

NP They really aren’t (I’m not even familiar with at least 2-3 of them). And they aren’t songs anyone is going to be talking about forever except Taylor Ssift fans.

You're just too old to be the target audience for Swift's music. You sound like the old folks complaining about Elvis or the Beatles.