Is Taylor Swift a Genius?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it fascinating that Swift fans on this thread have compared her to: Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen.

But when compared to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga (actual contemporaries) they get angry at the comparison. Beyonce is invoked and immediately insulted. Other contemporary singer songwriters like St. Vincent or Lana Del Ray are ignored or considered "obscure" or "snobby".

Not one person has mentioned Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon. I think Dolly Parton was mentioned once.

Just an observation. There is some weird stuff going on with wanting Taylor to be a singular women among male "geniuses" but a refusal to place her within a pantheon of incredibly talented female performers and songwriters. It's... curious to me.

You are incorrect. Someone compared her to Dolly back on page 2, and absolutely no one said it wasn’t a fair comparison. Also happy to compare her to other women who are songwriters, including Gaga and any other women who actually write their own songs. Co-writing in a a committee of 4 or 5 people, which is what Katy Perry does, is most definitely not comparable. But it’s funny you think people are getting angry about it. So far as I can tell this but a just a discussion, and anyone reading emotion into it might be too emotionally invested themselves. As for the main question, everyone has a different definition of genius, so the whole debate is useless.

I don’t think she’s comparable to Dolly or Gaga. They have actual talent.

Of course she is. I know, only your musical taste counts. Wouldn’t it be nice if you didn’t feel the need to denigrate someone just because their music is not your cup of tea?

Of course she isn’t. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Again, just because you don’t like her doesn’t mean she isn’t a good and prolific songwriter, possibly even a great songwriter. I’m not a particularly fan of hers, but I don’t think it diminishes me or the artists I prefer to acknowledge her talent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it fascinating that Swift fans on this thread have compared her to: Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen.

But when compared to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga (actual contemporaries) they get angry at the comparison. Beyonce is invoked and immediately insulted. Other contemporary singer songwriters like St. Vincent or Lana Del Ray are ignored or considered "obscure" or "snobby".

Not one person has mentioned Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon. I think Dolly Parton was mentioned once.

Just an observation. There is some weird stuff going on with wanting Taylor to be a singular women among male "geniuses" but a refusal to place her within a pantheon of incredibly talented female performers and songwriters. It's... curious to me.

You are incorrect. Someone compared her to Dolly back on page 2, and absolutely no one said it wasn’t a fair comparison. Also happy to compare her to other women who are songwriters, including Gaga and any other women who actually write their own songs. Co-writing in a a committee of 4 or 5 people, which is what Katy Perry does, is most definitely not comparable. But it’s funny you think people are getting angry about it. So far as I can tell this but a just a discussion, and anyone reading emotion into it might be too emotionally invested themselves. As for the main question, everyone has a different definition of genius, so the whole debate is useless.

I don’t think she’s comparable to Dolly or Gaga. They have actual talent.

Of course she is. I know, only your musical taste counts. Wouldn’t it be nice if you didn’t feel the need to denigrate someone just because their music is not your cup of tea?

Of course she isn’t. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Again, just because you don’t like her doesn’t mean she isn’t a good and prolific songwriter, possibly even a great songwriter. I’m not a particularly fan of hers, but I don’t think it diminishes me or the artists I prefer to acknowledge her talent.

And just because you clearly like her and think she’s a good and possibly great songwriter doesn’t mean everyone agrees. I don’t think she’s a good songwriter. I don’t think she is an impressive talent. I think she is popular in the same way the show Friends was popular. Easy, simple, relatable.

Stay mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rolling Stone called Taylor Swift one of the all time great songwriters and one of the last true rock stars. I'm not a Taylor Swift stan, but she's at least as good as Springsteen.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/taylor-swift-songs-ranked-rob-sheffield-201800/champagne-problems-2020-1245502/

Rolling Stone hasn't been relevant since sometime in the last century.

Wait, I thought the problem with Taylor was that she only appealed to youngsters?

[Anonymous]

Yes. She is smarter than all the males who lost millions in FTX. Happy for her.

Taylor Swift turned down a $100 million sponsorship offer from cryptocurrency exchange FTX due to concerns about unregistered securities.

https://fortune.com/crypto/2023/04/19/taylor-swift-avoided-100-million-ftx-debacle-by-questioning-whether-the-exchange-was-selling-unregistered-securities/

https://fortune.com/crypto/2023/04/19/taylor-swift-avoided-100-million-ftx-debacle-by-questioning-whether-the-exchange-was-selling-unregistered-securities/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has written the same song over and over again.

Which song? The one about people dying of cancer? The one about Romantic poets? The one about being screwed over by the guy who purchased your catalog? The one about the women who went before her and carved their own path?

I don't care whether people like Taylor, I certainly don't expect them to find each of her songs a precious gem, but I am really sick of people who heard one or two songs ten years ago and have decided they get to write off all of her songs as being the same.

Katy Perry < Taylor Swift < Phoebe Bridgers

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has written the same song over and over again.

Which song? The one about people dying of cancer? The one about Romantic poets? The one about being screwed over by the guy who purchased your catalog? The one about the women who went before her and carved their own path?

I don't care whether people like Taylor, I certainly don't expect them to find each of her songs a precious gem, but I am really sick of people who heard one or two songs ten years ago and have decided they get to write off all of her songs as being the same.

Katy Perry < Taylor Swift < Phoebe Bridgers

It's the breakup songs. So many breakup songs. And yes, musically and lyrically, they are incredibly repetitive.

Like Taylor has Red, Dear John, Holy Ground, Last Kiss, Back to December, Picture to Burn, Getaway Car, All to Well, Clean, Breath, White Horse, Sad Beautiful Tragic, The Last Time... these are all the same song. There are others too! This is not even all of them. People keep saying she's prolific but a HUGE percentage of her catalog is just the same song over and over.

And it's too bad because she has the capacity to write truly great, original, interesting songs on the same themes. We Are Never Getting Back Together is a true ear worm that has and will stand the test of time. Anti-Hero is a great, hilarious, memorable song.

But yes, when people say "she writes the same song over and over again" they are not talking about the songs that stick out. They are talking about the many, many songs she's written that are basically the same sad sack diary entries on the same subject she's been singing about since she was 15 years old.

She is also repetitive about other themes. In addition to her sad sack break up songs, she likes to write a lot of songs that are about being resilient against critics/haters/ex-friends. Some of these are good songs! But she's written that song a lot and it's also a major theme in her public person and for some of us, it gets tired.

I think Taylor is very talented. I also think she is a bit stunted as a person and lacking in some diverse human experiences that would give her writing and her music more depth and variety and interest. As someone a little older than her who enjoys a lot of her music but finds myself getting bored and outgrowing her, I think this is what holds her back. She got famous really young and has lived a very narrow life since then. I don't know if she has the experience and emotional range to tackle other subjects. Her music really is very, very repetitive, and even when she's writing about technically different experiences (a break up versus losing a friend versus watching someone you love get sick), somehow her music makes it sound vaguely like the same experience.

I think she needs to step back a bit, start editing herself much more aggressively (release an album every 5 years, not every other year) and maybe even take a break and just go live so she has something to write about other than her latest break up. Just go do something other than date and tour and hang out with her cats.

[Anonymous]

Thank goodness men never write breakup songs, or any songs about relationships, really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has written the same song over and over again.

Which song? The one about people dying of cancer? The one about Romantic poets? The one about being screwed over by the guy who purchased your catalog? The one about the women who went before her and carved their own path?

I don't care whether people like Taylor, I certainly don't expect them to find each of her songs a precious gem, but I am really sick of people who heard one or two songs ten years ago and have decided they get to write off all of her songs as being the same.

Katy Perry < Taylor Swift < Phoebe Bridgers

You clearly care and are taking it personal. Like others have said, it’s similar songs with different packaging. Honestly, the worst thing about Taylor Swift are her fans. They think she is a genius, which she isn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has written the same song over and over again.

Which song? The one about people dying of cancer? The one about Romantic poets? The one about being screwed over by the guy who purchased your catalog? The one about the women who went before her and carved their own path?

I don't care whether people like Taylor, I certainly don't expect them to find each of her songs a precious gem, but I am really sick of people who heard one or two songs ten years ago and have decided they get to write off all of her songs as being the same.

Katy Perry < Taylor Swift < Phoebe Bridgers

It's the breakup songs. So many breakup songs. And yes, musically and lyrically, they are incredibly repetitive.

Like Taylor has Red, Dear John, Holy Ground, Last Kiss, Back to December, Picture to Burn, Getaway Car, All to Well, Clean, Breath, White Horse, Sad Beautiful Tragic, The Last Time... these are all the same song. There are others too! This is not even all of them. People keep saying she's prolific but a HUGE percentage of her catalog is just the same song over and over.

And it's too bad because she has the capacity to write truly great, original, interesting songs on the same themes. We Are Never Getting Back Together is a true ear worm that has and will stand the test of time. Anti-Hero is a great, hilarious, memorable song.

But yes, when people say "she writes the same song over and over again" they are not talking about the songs that stick out. They are talking about the many, many songs she's written that are basically the same sad sack diary entries on the same subject she's been singing about since she was 15 years old.

She is also repetitive about other themes. In addition to her sad sack break up songs, she likes to write a lot of songs that are about being resilient against critics/haters/ex-friends. Some of these are good songs! But she's written that song a lot and it's also a major theme in her public person and for some of us, it gets tired.

I think Taylor is very talented. I also think she is a bit stunted as a person and lacking in some diverse human experiences that would give her writing and her music more depth and variety and interest. As someone a little older than her who enjoys a lot of her music but finds myself getting bored and outgrowing her, I think this is what holds her back. She got famous really young and has lived a very narrow life since then. I don't know if she has the experience and emotional range to tackle other subjects. Her music really is very, very repetitive, and even when she's writing about technically different experiences (a break up versus losing a friend versus watching someone you love get sick), somehow her music makes it sound vaguely like the same experience.

I think she needs to step back a bit, start editing herself much more aggressively (release an album every 5 years, not every other year) and maybe even take a break and just go live so she has something to write about other than her latest break up. Just go do something other than date and tour and hang out with her cats.

You say they’re the same song both musically and lyrically but the songs you just listed have lyrical rather than musical commonality. Which is interesting. I find female artists are often reduced to their lyrical content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has written the same song over and over again.

Which song? The one about people dying of cancer? The one about Romantic poets? The one about being screwed over by the guy who purchased your catalog? The one about the women who went before her and carved their own path?

I don't care whether people like Taylor, I certainly don't expect them to find each of her songs a precious gem, but I am really sick of people who heard one or two songs ten years ago and have decided they get to write off all of her songs as being the same.

Katy Perry < Taylor Swift < Phoebe Bridgers

It's the breakup songs. So many breakup songs. And yes, musically and lyrically, they are incredibly repetitive.

Like Taylor has Red, Dear John, Holy Ground, Last Kiss, Back to December, Picture to Burn, Getaway Car, All to Well, Clean, Breath, White Horse, Sad Beautiful Tragic, The Last Time... these are all the same song. There are others too! This is not even all of them. People keep saying she's prolific but a HUGE percentage of her catalog is just the same song over and over.

And it's too bad because she has the capacity to write truly great, original, interesting songs on the same themes. We Are Never Getting Back Together is a true ear worm that has and will stand the test of time. Anti-Hero is a great, hilarious, memorable song.

But yes, when people say "she writes the same song over and over again" they are not talking about the songs that stick out. They are talking about the many, many songs she's written that are basically the same sad sack diary entries on the same subject she's been singing about since she was 15 years old.

She is also repetitive about other themes. In addition to her sad sack break up songs, she likes to write a lot of songs that are about being resilient against critics/haters/ex-friends. Some of these are good songs! But she's written that song a lot and it's also a major theme in her public person and for some of us, it gets tired.

I think Taylor is very talented. I also think she is a bit stunted as a person and lacking in some diverse human experiences that would give her writing and her music more depth and variety and interest. As someone a little older than her who enjoys a lot of her music but finds myself getting bored and outgrowing her, I think this is what holds her back. She got famous really young and has lived a very narrow life since then. I don't know if she has the experience and emotional range to tackle other subjects. Her music really is very, very repetitive, and even when she's writing about technically different experiences (a break up versus losing a friend versus watching someone you love get sick), somehow her music makes it sound vaguely like the same experience.

I think she needs to step back a bit, start editing herself much more aggressively (release an album every 5 years, not every other year) and maybe even take a break and just go live so she has something to write about other than her latest break up. Just go do something other than date and tour and hang out with her cats.

You say they’re the same song both musically and lyrically but the songs you just listed have lyrical rather than musical commonality. Which is interesting. I find female artists are often reduced to their lyrical content.

No, those songs also sound really similar. And yes, also have similar lyrics. There might be some nuance/evolution (Clean is a bit of an evolution, but only a bit). If you listened to all those songs back to back you'd get really bored. Or at least, many of us would. Whereas some of the other artists people have referenced on here as geniuses, I don't feel that way about. There is more variety in their subject matter, style, musicality, lyrics, etc., over the course of 15 years or so, to keep me interested. With Swift I'm like "I get it, your relationship didn't work out and you feel melancholy about it." For almost two decades.

If Taylor Swit were a DCUM poster, people would be telling her to please stop posting about it, find a new hobby, and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has written the same song over and over again.

Which song? The one about people dying of cancer? The one about Romantic poets? The one about being screwed over by the guy who purchased your catalog? The one about the women who went before her and carved their own path?

I don't care whether people like Taylor, I certainly don't expect them to find each of her songs a precious gem, but I am really sick of people who heard one or two songs ten years ago and have decided they get to write off all of her songs as being the same.

Katy Perry < Taylor Swift < Phoebe Bridgers

It's the breakup songs. So many breakup songs. And yes, musically and lyrically, they are incredibly repetitive.

Like Taylor has Red, Dear John, Holy Ground, Last Kiss, Back to December, Picture to Burn, Getaway Car, All to Well, Clean, Breath, White Horse, Sad Beautiful Tragic, The Last Time... these are all the same song. There are others too! This is not even all of them. People keep saying she's prolific but a HUGE percentage of her catalog is just the same song over and over.

And it's too bad because she has the capacity to write truly great, original, interesting songs on the same themes. We Are Never Getting Back Together is a true ear worm that has and will stand the test of time. Anti-Hero is a great, hilarious, memorable song.

But yes, when people say "she writes the same song over and over again" they are not talking about the songs that stick out. They are talking about the many, many songs she's written that are basically the same sad sack diary entries on the same subject she's been singing about since she was 15 years old.

She is also repetitive about other themes. In addition to her sad sack break up songs, she likes to write a lot of songs that are about being resilient against critics/haters/ex-friends. Some of these are good songs! But she's written that song a lot and it's also a major theme in her public person and for some of us, it gets tired.

I think Taylor is very talented. I also think she is a bit stunted as a person and lacking in some diverse human experiences that would give her writing and her music more depth and variety and interest. As someone a little older than her who enjoys a lot of her music but finds myself getting bored and outgrowing her, I think this is what holds her back. She got famous really young and has lived a very narrow life since then. I don't know if she has the experience and emotional range to tackle other subjects. Her music really is very, very repetitive, and even when she's writing about technically different experiences (a break up versus losing a friend versus watching someone you love get sick), somehow her music makes it sound vaguely like the same experience.

I think she needs to step back a bit, start editing herself much more aggressively (release an album every 5 years, not every other year) and maybe even take a break and just go live so she has something to write about other than her latest break up. Just go do something other than date and tour and hang out with her cats.

You say they’re the same song both musically and lyrically but the songs you just listed have lyrical rather than musical commonality. Which is interesting. I find female artists are often reduced to their lyrical content.

No, those songs also sound really similar. And yes, also have similar lyrics. There might be some nuance/evolution (Clean is a bit of an evolution, but only a bit). If you listened to all those songs back to back you'd get really bored. Or at least, many of us would. Whereas some of the other artists people have referenced on here as geniuses, I don't feel that way about. There is more variety in their subject matter, style, musicality, lyrics, etc., over the course of 15 years or so, to keep me interested. With Swift I'm like "I get it, your relationship didn't work out and you feel melancholy about it." For almost two decades.

If Taylor Swit were a DCUM poster, people would be telling her to please stop posting about it, find a new hobby, and move on.

This made me chuckle bc very true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has written the same song over and over again.

Which song? The one about people dying of cancer? The one about Romantic poets? The one about being screwed over by the guy who purchased your catalog? The one about the women who went before her and carved their own path?

I don't care whether people like Taylor, I certainly don't expect them to find each of her songs a precious gem, but I am really sick of people who heard one or two songs ten years ago and have decided they get to write off all of her songs as being the same.

Katy Perry < Taylor Swift < Phoebe Bridgers

It's the breakup songs. So many breakup songs. And yes, musically and lyrically, they are incredibly repetitive.

Like Taylor has Red, Dear John, Holy Ground, Last Kiss, Back to December, Picture to Burn, Getaway Car, All to Well, Clean, Breath, White Horse, Sad Beautiful Tragic, The Last Time... these are all the same song. There are others too! This is not even all of them. People keep saying she's prolific but a HUGE percentage of her catalog is just the same song over and over.

And it's too bad because she has the capacity to write truly great, original, interesting songs on the same themes. We Are Never Getting Back Together is a true ear worm that has and will stand the test of time. Anti-Hero is a great, hilarious, memorable song.

But yes, when people say "she writes the same song over and over again" they are not talking about the songs that stick out. They are talking about the many, many songs she's written that are basically the same sad sack diary entries on the same subject she's been singing about since she was 15 years old.

She is also repetitive about other themes. In addition to her sad sack break up songs, she likes to write a lot of songs that are about being resilient against critics/haters/ex-friends. Some of these are good songs! But she's written that song a lot and it's also a major theme in her public person and for some of us, it gets tired.

I think Taylor is very talented. I also think she is a bit stunted as a person and lacking in some diverse human experiences that would give her writing and her music more depth and variety and interest. As someone a little older than her who enjoys a lot of her music but finds myself getting bored and outgrowing her, I think this is what holds her back. She got famous really young and has lived a very narrow life since then. I don't know if she has the experience and emotional range to tackle other subjects. Her music really is very, very repetitive, and even when she's writing about technically different experiences (a break up versus losing a friend versus watching someone you love get sick), somehow her music makes it sound vaguely like the same experience.

I think she needs to step back a bit, start editing herself much more aggressively (release an album every 5 years, not every other year) and maybe even take a break and just go live so she has something to write about other than her latest break up. Just go do something other than date and tour and hang out with her cats.

You say they’re the same song both musically and lyrically but the songs you just listed have lyrical rather than musical commonality. Which is interesting. I find female artists are often reduced to their lyrical content.

No, those songs also sound really similar. And yes, also have similar lyrics. There might be some nuance/evolution (Clean is a bit of an evolution, but only a bit). If you listened to all those songs back to back you'd get really bored. Or at least, many of us would. Whereas some of the other artists people have referenced on here as geniuses, I don't feel that way about. There is more variety in their subject matter, style, musicality, lyrics, etc., over the course of 15 years or so, to keep me interested. With Swift I'm like "I get it, your relationship didn't work out and you feel melancholy about it." For almost two decades.

If Taylor Swit were a DCUM poster, people would be telling her to please stop posting about it, find a new hobby, and move on.

I think she’s less one-note than Beyoncé anyway. I’m no huge Swift fan, but for the category “pop” it’s hard to deny she’s been pop-ular as all get out. I’m sure many songs will stand the test of time.

[Anonymous]

I do think she is immensely talented as a songwriter, but it reflects the very narrow life experience of someone who became famous as a young teenager and has lived a curated, sheltered existence. For those who say she hasn't stagnated, part of that is her early success has afforded her the kind of creative partnerships and production that prevents this from happening, and I'm not convinced how much of that is self-motivated. Watching Miss Americana confirmed this for me. She's a huge brand and has competing voices trying to figure out her next steps, and sometimes her actual songwriting is the least of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think she is immensely talented as a songwriter, but it reflects the very narrow life experience of someone who became famous as a young teenager and has lived a curated, sheltered existence. For those who say she hasn't stagnated, part of that is her early success has afforded her the kind of creative partnerships and production that prevents this from happening, and I'm not convinced how much of that is self-motivated. Watching Miss Americana confirmed this for me. She's a huge brand and has competing voices trying to figure out her next steps, and sometimes her actual songwriting is the least of it.

This, I think she needs like a "walkabout" or something -- to just check out of the music scene and Hollywood and go travel and not make music for a while. There is a very long history of this kind of thing in the music industry. Sometimes it's driven by a crisis in their personal life or a substance abuse issue, and I think Taylor is too straight arrow for those thing to ever happen. So she needs to just do it out of artistic interest. I seriously think she needs to just go pick a place far away she's sort of interested in, rent a place, make some new friends and "find herself." She never went to college or lived anything resembling a normal young adult lifestyle. I think it shows in her music.

(By the way, I think it shows in the music of artists like Beyonce and Katy Perry and Britney and all the other artists who started their careers in their teens, but none of them make as big of a deal of being songwriters and singing about their own experience, so it matters less. For Taylor this is part of her identity, so her lack of life experience just feels very glaring to me when listening to her music. I think THAT is why she is particularly beloved by HS/college girls, because she is singing from this place of "I'm just starting out, I'm naive and vulnerable." They identify. But as she has aged, it starts to feel like a put on and not an authentic voice because she's not just starting out, she isn't naive, and she isn't vulnerable, not in these same way.)