How would you rank NESCACS academically?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This conversation is stupid. Same is the chronic dull as dishwater ranking threads that always pollute this area of DCUM. Which ivy ranks over which ivy? Which publics rank where? Lets rank the slacs ? If you like Wes or Hamilton or tufts or any of the others and you can actually admitted than that is great. Get yourself an education and good luck.

So why are you here? Because deep down inside you share the ranking addiction.

Not really. I am pretty solid in my analysis about why the one DC is chose is the best for DC. Coaching issue played into it which is not relevant academically other than if your kid is going to go forward with the time and energy required to play a nescac sport (which is already way more forgiving than any D1 commitment), having it not be a poor quality experience is important IMO. Actually avoided a higher "ranked" university for this reason and IMO it was a valid reason.

No one is saying you must choose a higher ranked school over a lower one.

I just think splitting hairs over rankings is a waste of time because "overall" rankings are only useful for students looking for an "overall" education which is no one. Within the nescacs, most will provide an excellent education, so within such a group, look at the specific match to a student. Department of the major they want, coaching if that is relevant, location if that is relevant. I don't really think you can go wrong with most of the schools in this group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This conversation is stupid. Same is the chronic dull as dishwater ranking threads that always pollute this area of DCUM. Which ivy ranks over which ivy? Which publics rank where? Lets rank the slacs ? If you like Wes or Hamilton or tufts or any of the others and you can actually admitted than that is great. Get yourself an education and good luck.

So why are you here? Because deep down inside you share the ranking addiction.

Not really. I am pretty solid in my analysis about why the one DC is chose is the best for DC. Coaching issue played into it which is not relevant academically other than if your kid is going to go forward with the time and energy required to play a nescac sport (which is already way more forgiving than any D1 commitment), having it not be a poor quality experience is important IMO. Actually avoided a higher "ranked" university for this reason and IMO it was a valid reason.

No one is saying you must choose a higher ranked school over a lower one.

I just think splitting hairs over rankings is a waste of time because "overall" rankings are only useful for students looking for an "overall" education which is no one. Within the nescacs, most will provide an excellent education, so within such a group, look at the specific match to a student. Department of the major they want, coaching if that is relevant, location if that is relevant. I don't really think you can go wrong with most of the schools in this group.

The problem with saying something like this is that a naive kid or parent might actually choose Trinity over Amherst because of location or they liked the coach better. There are quality differences here. Sure, Tufts vs Midd is a toss up. But they are not all toss ups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This conversation is stupid. Same is the chronic dull as dishwater ranking threads that always pollute this area of DCUM. Which ivy ranks over which ivy? Which publics rank where? Lets rank the slacs ? If you like Wes or Hamilton or tufts or any of the others and you can actually admitted than that is great. Get yourself an education and good luck.

So why are you here? Because deep down inside you share the ranking addiction.

Not really. I am pretty solid in my analysis about why the one DC is chose is the best for DC. Coaching issue played into it which is not relevant academically other than if your kid is going to go forward with the time and energy required to play a nescac sport (which is already way more forgiving than any D1 commitment), having it not be a poor quality experience is important IMO. Actually avoided a higher "ranked" university for this reason and IMO it was a valid reason.

No one is saying you must choose a higher ranked school over a lower one.

I just think splitting hairs over rankings is a waste of time because "overall" rankings are only useful for students looking for an "overall" education which is no one. Within the nescacs, most will provide an excellent education, so within such a group, look at the specific match to a student. Department of the major they want, coaching if that is relevant, location if that is relevant. I don't really think you can go wrong with most of the schools in this group.

The problem with saying something like this is that a naive kid or parent might actually choose Trinity over Amherst because of location or they liked the coach better. There are quality differences here. Sure, Tufts vs Midd is a toss up. But they are not all toss ups.

That's fair. I don't think Trinity (or conn. College) is an academic peer to Amherst or tufts or midd. And if you are willing to go to Maine... Bowdoin is probably the best choice. But for the rest, go with the best fit. Williams is so strong but if there is some kind of issue or problem for you with Williams, I would not hesitate to choose another strong nescac.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This conversation is stupid. Same is the chronic dull as dishwater ranking threads that always pollute this area of DCUM. Which ivy ranks over which ivy? Which publics rank where? Lets rank the slacs ? If you like Wes or Hamilton or tufts or any of the others and you can actually admitted than that is great. Get yourself an education and good luck.

So why are you here? Because deep down inside you share the ranking addiction.

Not really. I am pretty solid in my analysis about why the one DC is chose is the best for DC. Coaching issue played into it which is not relevant academically other than if your kid is going to go forward with the time and energy required to play a nescac sport (which is already way more forgiving than any D1 commitment), having it not be a poor quality experience is important IMO. Actually avoided a higher "ranked" university for this reason and IMO it was a valid reason.

No one is saying you must choose a higher ranked school over a lower one.

I just think splitting hairs over rankings is a waste of time because "overall" rankings are only useful for students looking for an "overall" education which is no one. Within the nescacs, most will provide an excellent education, so within such a group, look at the specific match to a student. Department of the major they want, coaching if that is relevant, location if that is relevant. I don't really think you can go wrong with most of the schools in this group.

The problem with saying something like this is that a naive kid or parent might actually choose Trinity over Amherst because of location or they liked the coach better. There are quality differences here. Sure, Tufts vs Midd is a toss up. But they are not all toss ups.

Liking a coach is a factor but I would make it a big factor. A seriously problematic coach is different. For example... a top UAA league school was trying to strongly suggest certain majors or academic paths for a student athlete. That is a big no no to me. The philosophy of that league is supposed to be academics first and the student's academic choices should be respected. I would avoid a coach like that. Just because a coach or school wants a certain student, does not mean that student wants the school.

[Anonymous]

would not* make coach a big factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This conversation is stupid. Same is the chronic dull as dishwater ranking threads that always pollute this area of DCUM. Which ivy ranks over which ivy? Which publics rank where? Lets rank the slacs ? If you like Wes or Hamilton or tufts or any of the others and you can actually admitted than that is great. Get yourself an education and good luck.

So why are you here? Because deep down inside you share the ranking addiction.

Not really. I am pretty solid in my analysis about why the one DC is chose is the best for DC. Coaching issue played into it which is not relevant academically other than if your kid is going to go forward with the time and energy required to play a nescac sport (which is already way more forgiving than any D1 commitment), having it not be a poor quality experience is important IMO. Actually avoided a higher "ranked" university for this reason and IMO it was a valid reason.

No one is saying you must choose a higher ranked school over a lower one.

I just think splitting hairs over rankings is a waste of time because "overall" rankings are only useful for students looking for an "overall" education which is no one. Within the nescacs, most will provide an excellent education, so within such a group, look at the specific match to a student. Department of the major they want, coaching if that is relevant, location if that is relevant. I don't really think you can go wrong with most of the schools in this group.

The problem with saying something like this is that a naive kid or parent might actually choose Trinity over Amherst because of location or they liked the coach better. There are quality differences here. Sure, Tufts vs Midd is a toss up. But they are not all toss ups.

That's fair. I don't think Trinity (or conn. College) is an academic peer to Amherst or tufts or midd. And if you are willing to go to Maine... Bowdoin is probably the best choice. But for the rest, go with the best fit. Williams is so strong but if there is some kind of issue or problem for you with Williams, I would not hesitate to choose another strong nescac.

Hence, the tiering is perhaps useful. It’s fine to go up or down a tier based on specific circumstances or preferences but you should be mindful that you are doing so. And make sure your reasons are truly valid and not trivial. If you are going to deviate from conventional wisdom at least now that you are doing so and make sure your reasons are strong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boy there are some wild Hamilton boosters here. I'm an academic and never heard of the school until my kid's college search. It seems like a nice place and I guess the musical gave its reputation a boost, but it's nowhere near the top tier of LACs or even just NESCACs.

I knew Hamilton was a strong school in 1987 when I was applying to schools, because I come from a family that, for lack of a better description, knew about that kind of stuff. You not knowing about it just means you don’t come from that world. And I don’t say this with any judgment because I personally don’t pt any stock in it when I form my opinion of people, but it’s a social signifier of sorts.

[Anonymous]

Boy there are some wild Hamilton boosters here. I'm an academic and never heard of the school until my kid's college search. It seems like a nice place and I guess the musical gave its reputation a boost, but it's nowhere near the top tier of LACs or even just NESCACs

Do you work at a community college? No well-respected, high level academic would be aware of the NESCAC schools but not Hamilton. You just made yourself look bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Boy there are some wild Hamilton boosters here. I'm an academic and never heard of the school until my kid's college search. It seems like a nice place and I guess the musical gave its reputation a boost, but it's nowhere near the top tier of LACs or even just NESCACs

Do you work at a community college? No well-respected, high level academic would be aware of the NESCAC schools but not Hamilton. You just made yourself look bad.

What a snobby answer. So what if there are posters that are not aware of the list of top ranked colleges out there. Just educate people instead of being elitist.

[Anonymous]

hamilton is just sooo mid

no one’s first choice entering the college process. yeah kids ed there after reality sets in

bottom of the nescac in my DC’s friend group - never really comes up with Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts, Wes and Colby

Hamilton is far above Midd or Colby. My DC’s friends - who applied to top SLACs including Hamilton, Williams, Bowdoin - would not consider Wes (faded popularity, too many artsy/loner types ) or Colby (depressed town/students not as smart but college has famed rankings). And all those kids but one thought Tufts seemed like it was looking for an identity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

hamilton is just sooo mid

no one’s first choice entering the college process. yeah kids ed there after reality sets in

bottom of the nescac in my DC’s friend group - never really comes up with Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts, Wes and Colby

Hamilton is far above Midd or Colby. My DC’s friends - who applied to top SLACs including Hamilton, Williams, Bowdoin - would not consider Wes (faded popularity, too many artsy/loner types ) or Colby (depressed town/students not as smart but college has famed rankings). And all those kids but one thought Tufts seemed like it was looking for an identity.

The super-nerdy kids I know (not meant pejoratively) looking for top academics are applying to Bowdoin, Williams, Swarthmore, and Hamilton plus Ivies and schools like JHU, Duke, and MIT. Not Colby, Wes, Midd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

hamilton is just sooo mid

no one’s first choice entering the college process. yeah kids ed there after reality sets in

bottom of the nescac in my DC’s friend group - never really comes up with Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts, Wes and Colby

Hamilton is far above Midd or Colby. My DC’s friends - who applied to top SLACs including Hamilton, Williams, Bowdoin - would not consider Wes (faded popularity, too many artsy/loner types ) or Colby (depressed town/students not as smart but college has famed rankings). And all those kids but one thought Tufts seemed like it was looking for an identity.

The super-nerdy kids I know (not meant pejoratively) looking for top academics are applying to Bowdoin, Williams, Swarthmore, and Hamilton plus Ivies and schools like JHU, Duke, and MIT. Not Colby, Wes, Midd.

agree with everything here, except Hamilton. Laughable to include Hamilton with Williams and Bowdoin - 3 levels below those schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

hamilton is just sooo mid

no one’s first choice entering the college process. yeah kids ed there after reality sets in

bottom of the nescac in my DC’s friend group - never really comes up with Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts, Wes and Colby

Hamilton is far above Midd or Colby. My DC’s friends - who applied to top SLACs including Hamilton, Williams, Bowdoin - would not consider Wes (faded popularity, too many artsy/loner types ) or Colby (depressed town/students not as smart but college has famed rankings). And all those kids but one thought Tufts seemed like it was looking for an identity.

The super-nerdy kids I know (not meant pejoratively) looking for top academics are applying to Bowdoin, Williams, Swarthmore, and Hamilton plus Ivies and schools like JHU, Duke, and MIT. Not Colby, Wes, Midd.

agree with everything here, except Hamilton. Laughable to include Hamilton with Williams and Bowdoin - 3 levels below those schools

That is not correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Fiske Guide To Colleges 2023 edition academic ratings:

Amherst, Williams, Bowdoin, & Wesleyan = 5

Tufts, Hamilton,Middlebury, Colby, & Bates = 4.5

Conn College & Trinity College = 4

Based on prestige & academics:

Williams & Amherst

Bowdoin & Middlebury

Hamilton, Wesleyan, & Tufts

Colby

Bates

Trinity College & Conn College

I think Bowdoin is a clear step above Middlebury academically even though on paper they are sort of similar schools. Not to mention that Bowdoin's endowment per student (around $1M per student) is third after Wiliams ($1.45) and Amherst ($1.29), and the fourth school is Hamilton at less than $500k per kid. That's a big gap that has an effect over time.

Note that the "six college" liberal arts schools that do admissions stuff together are Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Swarthmore, Pomona, and Carleton. That's one way Willams and Amherst kind of shows which schools it thinks are its reasonable peers. I think Middlebury is sort of doing its own thing now, especially with admitted 80% of its class via ED.

Hamilton has a lot of money and is trying to use that to move up, but its location and campus is going to be a challenge for it. But a lot of kids are really happy when they go there. Wes is unique and the top of its class is impressive but it isn't that hard to get in comparatively. Tufts is not really NESCAC in feel but is probably the school below Bowdoin now.

All of the differences are small and a kid that is happy and does well at a "lower-ranked" school will likely do better post-college than a kid at a "higher-ranked" school who is unhappy and doesn't do well.

Williams
Amherst
Bowdoin
Tufts
Middlebury
Hamilton
Wesleyan
Colby
Bates
Trinity or Conn College

A+ both on this list and supporting points. Bravo.

Regarding Hamilton location --I was just there w/ my junior. While the town of Clinton is down a steep hill and extremely limited, (though very quaint and a great cider mill and gelato place) I will say the campus itself is very pretty. Lots of old traditional building with new buildings nicely incorporated. It's totally flat and the size is nice--very walkable but lots of green space. Campus buildings are all renovated and well maintained. Lots of dining options for a small school including a coffee cafe place, a pub, a diner as well as two main dining halls. What I was most suprised about is Utica is about 15 min away. Clearly, not a destination city but several upscale restaurants including a delicious farm to table restaurant with a great atmosphere that is moving to a larger space in the near future. There are many hotels, most are on the new side including a very nice Homewood suites only 10 min from campus. So my point is that yes, Hamilton has some location challenges but there are all the amenities that one needs. Also, it's any easy drive as right off rt 90 so no backroads.

utica is the armpit of the rust belt - Hamilton location is the worst in the Nescac

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boy there are some wild Hamilton boosters here. I'm an academic and never heard of the school until my kid's college search. It seems like a nice place and I guess the musical gave its reputation a boost, but it's nowhere near the top tier of LACs or even just NESCACs.

I knew Hamilton was a strong school in 1987 when I was applying to schools, because I come from a family that, for lack of a better description, knew about that kind of stuff. You not knowing about it just means you don’t come from that world. And I don’t say this with any judgment because I personally don’t pt any stock in it when I form my opinion of people, but it’s a social signifier of sorts.

It’s also odd that an academic would blow it off so easily when median SAT is 1490 and ACT is 34. Yet “nowhere near” being a top school.