How would you rank NESCACS academically?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tier 1 Amherst and Williams
Tier 2 Tufts, Middlebury and Wesleyan
Tier 3 Bates, Hamilton, Colby
Tier 4 Connecticut and Trinity

+1. This is how I would rank as well (and keep Wes where it is btw).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know Amherst ranks well but I genuinely don't see how it's equally good as Williams when it comes to academics. If you go by raw academic stats (class sizes, student to faculty ratio, financial spending, etc.) Williams is the front runner. You have oxford style tutorials and some top notch academic centers at Williams too.

The alternate ranking below looks at professor quality, diversity, student happiness, and number of classes offered/class sizes. Unfortunately it only includes schools that required test scores in 2019, but for those in NESCAC that are included Williams placed significantly higher (#6) than Amherst (#39) and all the others. The list, btw, includes universities, too, and is ahead of all Ivies except Penn (#5).

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/blog/6/

That particular ranking does not look specifically at academic factors which is what OP was asking. If you're looking at other factors, one could pull data to support Amherst over Williams depending on what factor you are looking at. Back to academic factors though, Amherst has the 5 college consortium, including UMass Amherst, which Williams, being so remote, does not.

When we toured, it sounded like Amherst kids didn't really use classes at other campuses unless it was a very specific need. Not anything like Haverford/Bryn Mayer/Swath level of cooperation/shared campuses.

For sure its not the majority or even significant minority of classes. My DD took one class at UMass in her freshman year. It's good to know the option is there. Obviously, a school like UMass offer many more classes than the smaller LACs.

[Anonymous]

Tier 1 Amherst and Williams
Tier 2 Tufts, Middlebury and Wesleyan
Tier 3 Bates, Hamilton, Colby
Tier 4 Connecticut and Trinity


+1. This is how I would rank as well (and keep Wes where it is btw).

Disagree. In the last 5-10 years, Hamilton has most definitely moved up. It is far above Bates and Colby, and attracts a stronger student than Wesleyan. Wesleyan is certainly on the decline. The ranking above is a historic one, not current.

Amherst and Williams
Bowdoin, Middlebury and Hamilton
Bates and Colby
Connecticut and Trinity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:funny thing is that Trinity punches well above it’s weight placing on wall street - very strong career center, alumni loyalty, and pre professionalism vibe. In fact, likely equal to Williams in that regard, and I’ve worked and hired on the street for 30 years. Tucker Carlson and Marc Watters from Fox are two impressive alumni also..

Is there any bigger jackass that tucker Carlson? That drip is just a boomer wet dream. Seriously doubt more than half a dozen college students have ever even seen his show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Tier 1 Amherst and Williams
Tier 2 Tufts, Middlebury and Wesleyan
Tier 3 Bates, Hamilton, Colby
Tier 4 Connecticut and Trinity


+1. This is how I would rank as well (and keep Wes where it is btw).

Disagree. In the last 5-10 years, Hamilton has most definitely moved up. It is far above Bates and Colby, and attracts a stronger student than Wesleyan. Wesleyan is certainly on the decline. The ranking above is a historic one, not current.

Amherst and Williams
Bowdoin, Middlebury and Hamilton
Bates and Colby
Connecticut and Trinity

Hamilton has always been a strong little liberal arts college in upstate New York. For decades. It's a great school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Fiske Guide To Colleges 2023 edition academic ratings:

Amherst, Williams, Bowdoin, & Wesleyan = 5

Tufts, Hamilton,Middlebury, Colby, & Bates = 4.5

Conn College & Trinity College = 4

Based on prestige & academics:

Williams & Amherst

Bowdoin & Middlebury

Hamilton, Wesleyan, & Tufts

Colby

Bates

Trinity College & Conn College

I think Bowdoin is a clear step above Middlebury academically even though on paper they are sort of similar schools. Not to mention that Bowdoin's endowment per student (around $1M per student) is third after Wiliams ($1.45) and Amherst ($1.29), and the fourth school is Hamilton at less than $500k per kid. That's a big gap that has an effect over time.

Note that the "six college" liberal arts schools that do admissions stuff together are Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Swarthmore, Pomona, and Carleton. That's one way Willams and Amherst kind of shows which schools it thinks are its reasonable peers. I think Middlebury is sort of doing its own thing now, especially with admitted 80% of its class via ED.

Hamilton has a lot of money and is trying to use that to move up, but its location and campus is going to be a challenge for it. But a lot of kids are really happy when they go there. Wes is unique and the top of its class is impressive but it isn't that hard to get in comparatively. Tufts is not really NESCAC in feel but is probably the school below Bowdoin now.

All of the differences are small and a kid that is happy and does well at a "lower-ranked" school will likely do better post-college than a kid at a "higher-ranked" school who is unhappy and doesn't do well.

Williams
Amherst
Bowdoin
Tufts
Middlebury
Hamilton
Wesleyan
Colby
Bates
Trinity or Conn College

A+ both on this list and supporting points. Bravo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tier 1 Amherst and Williams
Tier 2 Tufts, Middlebury and Wesleyan
Tier 3 Bates, Hamilton, Colby
Tier 4 Connecticut and Trinity

switch wes and ham

hamilton is a hard one to figure out - I really wanted to be impressed but the place is just sooo depressing and lacks energy. My DC gave me the high sign to bolt halfway thru the tour. iPretty bleh feeling overall - only school where kids appeared more fake and robotic was Williams. At least Wesleyan has a personality, and the campus felt electric during our tour - kids were passionate, like it or not. Much too woke though end of day, even for an athlete

Hamilton isn't NESCAC. It's in the Liberty League for athletics.

Er, no it’s not. Hamilton is 100% in the nescac.

[Anonymous]

Middlebury is living off past glories, as is Wesleyan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Middlebury is living off past glories, as is Wesleyan.

funny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Middlebury is living off past glories, as is Wesleyan.

Why would you say that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tier 1 Amherst and Williams
Tier 2 Tufts, Middlebury and Wesleyan
Tier 3 Bates, Hamilton, Colby
Tier 4 Connecticut and Trinity

switch wes and ham

hamilton is a hard one to figure out - I really wanted to be impressed but the place is just sooo depressing and lacks energy. My DC gave me the high sign to bolt halfway thru the tour. iPretty bleh feeling overall - only school where kids appeared more fake and robotic was Williams. At least Wesleyan has a personality, and the campus felt electric during our tour - kids were passionate, like it or not. Much too woke though end of day, even for an athlete

Hamilton isn't NESCAC. It's in the Liberty League for athletics.

. No Hamilton is in NESCAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know Amherst ranks well but I genuinely don't see how it's equally good as Williams when it comes to academics. If you go by raw academic stats (class sizes, student to faculty ratio, financial spending, etc.) Williams is the front runner. You have oxford style tutorials and some top notch academic centers at Williams too.

All the criteria you list are very similar between the two. In fact, Amherst has a higher per student endowment than Williams. Not sure how important Oxford-style tutorials are given such small classes at both. If it were so great, Oxford University would be so much better than top research universities in the US which is not the case.

Go to the Centennial Conference! Swarthmore has the best of both Williams and Amherst (a great seminar-based honors program and excellent academic stats) plus a better location close to a city and with better weather. It is also preferred to both Williams and Amherst head to head Parchment wise (probably in large part because of those comparative positives). Johns Hopkins is among the best research universities in the nation with more money than anyone in the NESCAC, and Haverford and Bryn Mawr continue to offer top-tier educations on beautiful campuses without having to go all the way to NE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know Amherst ranks well but I genuinely don't see how it's equally good as Williams when it comes to academics. If you go by raw academic stats (class sizes, student to faculty ratio, financial spending, etc.) Williams is the front runner. You have oxford style tutorials and some top notch academic centers at Williams too.

All the criteria you list are very similar between the two. In fact, Amherst has a higher per student endowment than Williams. Not sure how important Oxford-style tutorials are given such small classes at both. If it were so great, Oxford University would be so much better than top research universities in the US which is not the case.

Go to the Centennial Conference! Swarthmore has the best of both Williams and Amherst (a great seminar-based honors program and excellent academic stats) plus a better location close to a city and with better weather. It is also preferred to both Williams and Amherst head to head Parchment wise (probably in large part because of those comparative positives). Johns Hopkins is among the best research universities in the nation with more money than anyone in the NESCAC, and Haverford and Bryn Mawr continue to offer top-tier educations on beautiful campuses without having to go all the way to NE.

Johns Hopkins is not in Nescac

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know Amherst ranks well but I genuinely don't see how it's equally good as Williams when it comes to academics. If you go by raw academic stats (class sizes, student to faculty ratio, financial spending, etc.) Williams is the front runner. You have oxford style tutorials and some top notch academic centers at Williams too.

The alternate ranking below looks at professor quality, diversity, student happiness, and number of classes offered/class sizes. Unfortunately it only includes schools that required test scores in 2019, but for those in NESCAC that are included Williams placed significantly higher (#6) than Amherst (#39) and all the others. The list, btw, includes universities, too, and is ahead of all Ivies except Penn (#5).

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/blog/6/

That particular ranking does not look specifically at academic factors which is what OP was asking. If you're looking at other factors, one could pull data to support Amherst over Williams depending on what factor you are looking at. Back to academic factors though, Amherst has the 5 college consortium, including UMass Amherst, which Williams, being so remote, does not.

When we toured, it sounded like Amherst kids didn't really use classes at other campuses unless it was a very specific need. Not anything like Haverford/Bryn Mayer/Swath level of cooperation/shared campuses.

For sure its not the majority or even significant minority of classes. My DD took one class at UMass in her freshman year. It's good to know the option is there. Obviously, a school like UMass offer many more classes than the smaller LACs.

Amherst has a pretty nice campus (definitely preferred it to Williams other than the iconic chapel) but Smith was the school in that 5 college consortium that had a beautiful campus.
Amherst and Williams are peers in the top tier. They and Swarthmore are the only LACs to be ranked #1 multiple times by USNWR and those 3 have never been outside the top 4. I get the sense that Williams is on a bit of a downward trajectory recently though despite the ranking. The location issue is a tough one and people sound mixed on the current administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tier 1 Amherst and Williams
Tier 2 Tufts, Middlebury and Wesleyan
Tier 3 Bates, Hamilton, Colby
Tier 4 Connecticut and Trinity

switch wes and ham

hamilton is a hard one to figure out - I really wanted to be impressed but the place is just sooo depressing and lacks energy. My DC gave me the high sign to bolt halfway thru the tour. iPretty bleh feeling overall - only school where kids appeared more fake and robotic was Williams. At least Wesleyan has a personality, and the campus felt electric during our tour - kids were passionate, like it or not. Much too woke though end of day, even for an athlete

That’s funny, my DD LOVED the Hamilton tour and campus, and between her own tours and her oldest sibling’s we visited a LOT of schools, and it was her favorite. She thought the “the vibe was chill” and our guide was super engaging and energetic. Just shows you different strokes for different folks.