What are the various summer leagues policies on swimmers and gender identification

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our league, the child can swim in their chosen (for lack of a better word) gender's events, but will be scored in their biological gender's events. So your trans daughter could swim with the girls but will appear on the meet results as a boy.

Which league?

Does that work both ways? Could my trans son win events they didn't swim in? That seems really awkward.

I don't think trans men have an advantage over biological men.

The dont. They do, however, have a huge advantage over biological girls.

Trans women have a biological advantage. It is not huge but it is significant. Trans men who are not on hormones do not have an advantage, over biological women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about just two categories:

(1) biological females who have not undergone testosterone therapy.

*I understand that it is not straightforward to define what is a biological female, but some definition could be attempted

(2) open-category which can include biological males, trans-boys, trans-girls, non-binary, and even biological females if they wish to compete in the open category

And everyone can wear a bathing suit that covers their torso if they would like to

This is the best idea I’ve seen to date.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our league, the child can swim in their chosen (for lack of a better word) gender's events, but will be scored in their biological gender's events. So your trans daughter could swim with the girls but will appear on the meet results as a boy.

Which league?

Does that work both ways? Could my trans son win events they didn't swim in? That seems really awkward.

I don't think trans men have an advantage over biological men.

The dont. They do, however, have a huge advantage over biological girls.

Trans women have a biological advantage. It is not huge but it is significant. Trans men who are not on hormones do not have an advantage, over biological women.

Compare male and female times. It's huge. A mediocre male swimmer is a phenomenal female swimmer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about just two categories:

(1) biological females who have not undergone testosterone therapy.

*I understand that it is not straightforward to define what is a biological female, but some definition could be attempted

(2) open-category which can include biological males, trans-boys, trans-girls, non-binary, and even biological females if they wish to compete in the open category

And everyone can wear a bathing suit that covers their torso if they would like to

Women's fast suits offer an advantage over jammers. There is a reason that they are banned for men

[Anonymous]

I think a quick reality-check is probably in order here. Despite the current moral panic over trans* kids, the number of kids who 1) identify as trans; and 2) have begun any sort of medicalized gender affirming treatment; and 3) Are AMAB transitioning to female, is miniscule.

OP may be a real person or may be a troll, but if they are a real person, then their child is in an incredibly small minority assuming they've undergone a medical transition of any sort.

We're having a whole culture war freakout about the "end of women's sports" about an issue that impacts at most a handful of kids per state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a quick reality-check is probably in order here. Despite the current moral panic over trans* kids, the number of kids who 1) identify as trans; and 2) have begun any sort of medicalized gender affirming treatment; and 3) Are AMAB transitioning to female, is miniscule.

OP may be a real person or may be a troll, but if they are a real person, then their child is in an incredibly small minority assuming they've undergone a medical transition of any sort.

We're having a whole culture war freakout about the "end of women's sports" about an issue that impacts at most a handful of kids per state.

And 4)are swimmers. Even smaller grouping.

We can’t change the whole meet system for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about just two categories:

(1) biological females who have not undergone testosterone therapy.

*I understand that it is not straightforward to define what is a biological female, but some definition could be attempted

(2) open-category which can include biological males, trans-boys, trans-girls, non-binary, and even biological females if they wish to compete in the open category

And everyone can wear a bathing suit that covers their torso if they would like to

It is straightforward. Born with a vagina. You people are really crazy with all of this gender fluid, pick what you want, assigned at birth language. And then to put it on other kids is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a quick reality-check is probably in order here. Despite the current moral panic over trans* kids, the number of kids who 1) identify as trans; and 2) have begun any sort of medicalized gender affirming treatment; and 3) Are AMAB transitioning to female, is miniscule.

OP may be a real person or may be a troll, but if they are a real person, then their child is in an incredibly small minority assuming they've undergone a medical transition of any sort.

We're having a whole culture war freakout about the "end of women's sports" about an issue that impacts at most a handful of kids per state.

The number of kids is tiny but it’s the ripple effect to all the other girls competing. The girls on their own team who don’t make A meets. The girls across the league who don’t make All Stars. It’s not a large number but it matters to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a quick reality-check is probably in order here. Despite the current moral panic over trans* kids, the number of kids who 1) identify as trans; and 2) have begun any sort of medicalized gender affirming treatment; and 3) Are AMAB transitioning to female, is miniscule.

OP may be a real person or may be a troll, but if they are a real person, then their child is in an incredibly small minority assuming they've undergone a medical transition of any sort.

We're having a whole culture war freakout about the "end of women's sports" about an issue that impacts at most a handful of kids per state.

The number of kids is tiny but it’s the ripple effect to all the other girls competing. The girls on their own team who don’t make A meets. The girls across the league who don’t make All Stars. It’s not a large number but it matters to them.

Yes it could be one division and it changes things for many girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a quick reality-check is probably in order here. Despite the current moral panic over trans* kids, the number of kids who 1) identify as trans; and 2) have begun any sort of medicalized gender affirming treatment; and 3) Are AMAB transitioning to female, is miniscule.

OP may be a real person or may be a troll, but if they are a real person, then their child is in an incredibly small minority assuming they've undergone a medical transition of any sort.

We're having a whole culture war freakout about the "end of women's sports" about an issue that impacts at most a handful of kids per state.

The number of kids is tiny but it’s the ripple effect to all the other girls competing. The girls on their own team who don’t make A meets. The girls across the league who don’t make All Stars. It’s not a large number but it matters to them.

Yes it could be one division and it changes things for many girls.

This “it’s a tiny number” is gaslighting at its best. How many displaced cis females is ok? Also, OP said nothing about beginning medical transition. So we are talking about someone potentially identifying as a girl, putting on a girls suit and compass a girl. Second, If it’s such a tiny number, those very few trans girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our league, the child can swim in their chosen (for lack of a better word) gender's events, but will be scored in their biological gender's events. So your trans daughter could swim with the girls but will appear on the meet results as a boy.

Which league?

Does that work both ways? Could my trans son win events they didn't swim in? That seems really awkward.

I don't think trans men have an advantage over biological men.

The dont. They do, however, have a huge advantage over biological girls.

Trans women have a biological advantage. It is not huge but it is significant. Trans men who are not on hormones do not have an advantage, over biological women.

Compare male and female times. It's huge. A mediocre male swimmer is a phenomenal female swimmer

Yes, we have actually seen this play out. A middling male swimmer transitioned to being female and became a national champion competing against women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a quick reality-check is probably in order here. Despite the current moral panic over trans* kids, the number of kids who 1) identify as trans; and 2) have begun any sort of medicalized gender affirming treatment; and 3) Are AMAB transitioning to female, is miniscule.

OP may be a real person or may be a troll, but if they are a real person, then their child is in an incredibly small minority assuming they've undergone a medical transition of any sort.

We're having a whole culture war freakout about the "end of women's sports" about an issue that impacts at most a handful of kids per state.

Also important to note that the very small number of trans-girls are going to have a massively disproportionate impact in sports, due to their natural advantage.

As an example, intersex women (XY DSD) like Caster Semenya are very rare. And yet all three medals in the women's 800m during the Rio Olympics were won by XY DSD women. The same might have happened in Tokyo had not rules gone into effect requiring them to lower their testosterone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a quick reality-check is probably in order here. Despite the current moral panic over trans* kids, the number of kids who 1) identify as trans; and 2) have begun any sort of medicalized gender affirming treatment; and 3) Are AMAB transitioning to female, is miniscule.

OP may be a real person or may be a troll, but if they are a real person, then their child is in an incredibly small minority assuming they've undergone a medical transition of any sort.

We're having a whole culture war freakout about the "end of women's sports" about an issue that impacts at most a handful of kids per state.

I think everyone understands that right now this is a small number of people, but that is not a reason for the ramifications of it to not be addressed. A trans woman became an NCAA champion, and that alone requires the conversation to be had. At the rec level there are any number of ways to address the issue. I think it’s legitimate to want trans girls to still be able to participate in their sport, but participation in the sport and competing at the highest level against biological women are different things. Honestly, in the rec swimming setting I would be all for allowing a trans girl to swim in girls heats but get scored with the boys. In the case of an A meet if a trans girl qualified for the boys events in an A meet, mix the heats boys and girls so the numbers are still even. I don’t think trans girls should be able to reach levels of competition against girls that they couldn’t have achieved as boys, however; like Lia Thomas going from mediocre male swimmer to a women’s national champion. That’s just crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our league, the child can swim in their chosen (for lack of a better word) gender's events, but will be scored in their biological gender's events. So your trans daughter could swim with the girls but will appear on the meet results as a boy.

Sounds logical

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a quick reality-check is probably in order here. Despite the current moral panic over trans* kids, the number of kids who 1) identify as trans; and 2) have begun any sort of medicalized gender affirming treatment; and 3) Are AMAB transitioning to female, is miniscule.

OP may be a real person or may be a troll, but if they are a real person, then their child is in an incredibly small minority assuming they've undergone a medical transition of any sort.

We're having a whole culture war freakout about the "end of women's sports" about an issue that impacts at most a handful of kids per state.

Why is it ok that a handful of female athletes per state are put at an unfair competitive advantage by having to compete against someone born male? In swim, that means girls are not making finals, not medaling, etc., because they’re having to swim against someone who we normally put in a whole different category because of inherent biological advantages.