This is exactly right. As I have thought about this issue as a liberal and former female college swimmer, I think that (1) I agree that in a lot of ways binary gender identity and roles burden all of us and I could get onboard with adopting gender-neutral pronouns for everyone; but (2) in a world in which everyone is unconstrained by their birth sex and gender is more fluid and unimportant, do we have two divisions in sports at all? If we don’t preserve female sports in that world, we’ll be back to having virtually no opportunities for female. |
I don't think trans men have an advantage over biological men. |
Why are you hedging. Seems like a foregone conclusion. |
You are missing the point. PP is pointing out the odd result of winning without head-to-head racing. It is a bit of an issue as a lot of the older kids can moderate their effort to maximize points based on who’s in the pool with them. A 16 yr old who can easily get second in backstroke but has no chance of winning May conserve energy for their next race. Having someone swimming with the other gender but scoring with yours will throw a wrinkle in this. May be the best outcome, but it is worth considering. |
Everything seems strange until it isn’t. This happens all the time in some official USA swimming club meets, as a pp has said. The results are reported broken out by age and gender, but the heats are run together. Swimmers learn to swim their own race, knowing that their competitors might not be in the same heat. Yes, a swimmer can win an event and not have gone head to head with the second place swimmer. This happens pretty often in the younger age groups and less often in the older ones. I’ve never heard anyone comment or complain about this, not even the kids. I think that rec swimmers and their parents get more enjoyment and pleasure from winning a heat than club swimmers and their parents, who see most meets as a way to get times to qualify for bigger meets down the line. This isn’t a criticism of rec swimming - their meets serve a different purpose than club meets, so it makes sense that having a traditional heat format and winner is more important to them. Swimmers in club meets never “moderate their efforts” unless they are swimming a prelim/final format, because they care about their times much more than points. I would consider it a minor issue that is less important than trimming the timeline so that the meet is a reasonable length, or allowing swimmers to swim with their gender identity. |
The comments above are I in response to the suggestion that trans kids swim with one gender and be scored with another, not the blended heats idea. And I’m not thinking of heat winners at B meets but the single heat at A meets where all swimmers are traditionally swimming against each other, can see the competition, and points are on the line that dictate the outcome of the meet. |
USA swimming events also are run like an “A” meet unless it’s one that has prelims and finals, in which case I don’t think there is a recreational swim equivalent for those. And some of them are still run as mixed heats. I get your concern, but rec swim is not a unicorn that has to have separate heats for boys and girls. Plenty of club meets run mixed heats and still declare a club the winner at the end based on points. I agree that rec swim is more fun for parents to watch with the traditional format, but since competitive swim meets make it work, I’m sure rec swim can as well. If swimmers are paying attention, they can see their competition swim, and would likely have similar times and be in the same heat as them anyway. |
You don’t sound very familiar with A meet at a dual meet format. Do you have a HS or college swimmer (I do and I was one- which means I’m also very familiar with club meets). So A meats run one heat of boys and one heat of girls. If you mix genders you have two heats 3 scoring entries per team per event. A trans girl swimmer would have to fill a male slot in the entries and then you could race them based on time, the fastest heat would usually be all the boys and the first heat girls (but you’d have a few exceptions especially at teams without a lot of year round swimmers) |
I don’t really see a problem with letting swimmers wear whatever bathing suit they want, but having them swim in the category of their genetic sex. It is the most fair option given the choices that we have. |
This isn’t rocket science. Enter the kids and their seed times. Run the mixed gender/age heats. Calculate the scores at the end depending on time. The times supercede the order of heat finishes. Accept thanks from parents for a shortened meet. |
The dont. They do, however, have a huge advantage over biological girls. |
Your 16 year old has surpassed puberty. He would have a great advantage over any 16 year old girl. It's biology and physics - not politics. I would just BET he wants to swim against girls. Why not?? He WILL take a scholarship spot, a medal spot etc from a very much deserving girl who has worked hard her whole life. |
Those with more knowledge of swimming can correct me, but I believe there is some slight advantage in moving through the water from wearing a bathing suit that covers the torso, versus one that does not. So a trans girl swimming in the boy's heat but wearing a women's bathing suit might gain some advantage that way. |
I don’t think you know how nvsl ‘a’ meets work. USA seimming meeting are not run like ‘a’ meets. In an a meet each team gets to enter 3 boys and 3 girls in each age group event. They are assigned lanes by team, not by time. So there is not a way to accommodate’ a biological boy who wants to swim in the girls event. It’s definitely not shortening the meet. The meet is just 1 heat of everything. B meets vary much more. |
How about just two categories:
(1) biological females who have not undergone testosterone therapy. *I understand that it is not straightforward to define what is a biological female, but some definition could be attempted (2) open-category which can include biological males, trans-boys, trans-girls, non-binary, and even biological females if they wish to compete in the open category And everyone can wear a bathing suit that covers their torso if they would like to |