Go for a run if you don't get into your choice college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Thank you for your nuanced explanation. I'm more anti-affirmative action than you. I do not believe the children of today should be discriminated against because of the sins of a minority's forefathers. There are millions of people in America right now whose ancestors were nowhere near America during those benighted times, and who contribute economically and culturally to this great nation. Coming to the USA is not an implicit agreement to shoulder the guilt and shame of racist white slaveholders and Amerindian murderers, or anyone else who forced Chinese laborers to build railroads, or who interned Japanese families in concentration camps.

I greatly appreciate living here in a liberal part of the country, since it's less worse than living in a conservative part of the country, but from where I'm standing, Asians are perpetually discriminated against.

- east Asian

Well you fled your own country and came to a country that owed these people. Think of it like a lean on a house you volunteer to buy. You want the benefits of owning that house, then you need to pay off the debt.

First of all, it’s lien.

Second of all, this country was built on the free labor of East Asians too.

East Asians? Free Labor in the United States? I don’t think so. If anything East Asians hat slaves too on American soil. Two of the worst slave owners in history were Chang and Eng Bunker.

PP was talking about the railroads, dummy. And let's try to be more sophisticaed about the concept of "pay" here. Technically, railroad laborers were paid, but so were child laborers. We're talking about massive exploitation of a race.
No is is disagreeing that slavery was horrific and that its effects remain to this day, but it is a big leap to then say that because Afghan interpreters were paid by the US military, that they are therefore morally indebted to African slaves in the 1700s.

we're also talking about minuscule numbers compared to chattel slavery in the south

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when you have a CCO that purposefully withholds data and specializes in generalizations. As a parent, I would have loved to have my kids attend a teach-in about affirmative action with data, rather than assume that 1) the kids understand the real complexities of affirmative action and college admissions, and 2) not have any questions about the changing landscape of college admissions.
Of course saying that certain kids got into top schools because of race is boorish and disrespectful. But if the CCO or the 12th grade dean or even a history teacher, maybe Sue Ikenberry who teaches politics, had pre-emptively had a frank discussion about affirmative action and how it affects college admissions, this whole episode could have been avoided. For goodness sakes, Ketanji Brown Jackson was a GDS parent! The school has resources to have a compelling conversation about affirmative action and college admissions. Why not also talk about factors like full-pay, legacy, sports recruiting, first-gen, and URM status as potential "hooks" in the college process? Why not discuss the very real disparities in standardized test scores across racial categories and the challenges those numbers present for college admissions? Why not discuss the problematic umbrella of "Asian" in college admissions?
I'm not surprised that the purposeful lack of transparency in college admissions at GDS is backfiring. Kids are applying to schools with so little real guidance. Visiting one of the college counselors at GDS is like visiting the oracle at Delphi--you ask questions and hope to get a response that provides some clarity.

But wouldn’t that lead to uncomfortable discussions about factors like full-pay, legacy, sports recruiting, first-gen (really, not so much. Any GDS Dreamers? No?) and URM status (plus sib preference, of course - esp this year) as hooks in the process for admission to GDS itself?

Maybe, but GDS admissions is pretty transparent about hooks for siblings and faculty kids. Moreover, GDS is about as transparent as its peer schools when it comes to admissions for their own school. GDS is behind its peers when it comes to college counseling transparency.

The discomfort occurs when the students realize they got into GDS in the first place because of hooks, that their own school and their place in it run on exactly the same process they are encountering in college admissions. But that’s not the sort of reflection GDS encourages, it seems.

Lol the only hook GDS values in admissions is the Ivy degree behind the parents name. Now that the strategy is no longer foolproof, in terms of college matriculation, everyone is up in arms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when you have a CCO that purposefully withholds data and specializes in generalizations. As a parent, I would have loved to have my kids attend a teach-in about affirmative action with data, rather than assume that 1) the kids understand the real complexities of affirmative action and college admissions, and 2) not have any questions about the changing landscape of college admissions.
Of course saying that certain kids got into top schools because of race is boorish and disrespectful. But if the CCO or the 12th grade dean or even a history teacher, maybe Sue Ikenberry who teaches politics, had pre-emptively had a frank discussion about affirmative action and how it affects college admissions, this whole episode could have been avoided. For goodness sakes, Ketanji Brown Jackson was a GDS parent! The school has resources to have a compelling conversation about affirmative action and college admissions. Why not also talk about factors like full-pay, legacy, sports recruiting, first-gen, and URM status as potential "hooks" in the college process? Why not discuss the very real disparities in standardized test scores across racial categories and the challenges those numbers present for college admissions? Why not discuss the problematic umbrella of "Asian" in college admissions?
I'm not surprised that the purposeful lack of transparency in college admissions at GDS is backfiring. Kids are applying to schools with so little real guidance. Visiting one of the college counselors at GDS is like visiting the oracle at Delphi--you ask questions and hope to get a response that provides some clarity.

But wouldn’t that lead to uncomfortable discussions about factors like full-pay, legacy, sports recruiting, first-gen (really, not so much. Any GDS Dreamers? No?) and URM status (plus sib preference, of course - esp this year) as hooks in the process for admission to GDS itself?

Maybe, but GDS admissions is pretty transparent about hooks for siblings and faculty kids. Moreover, GDS is about as transparent as its peer schools when it comes to admissions for their own school. GDS is behind its peers when it comes to college counseling transparency.

The discomfort occurs when the students realize they got into GDS in the first place because of hooks, that their own school and their place in it run on exactly the same process they are encountering in college admissions. But that’s not the sort of reflection GDS encourages, it seems.

Are you saying kids are uncomfortable because they were bore into generational wealth? Because their family knows someone with enough pull to get them admitted? Or because their family had enough resources to provide them with the best tutors and test prep available?
Kids don’t care about that and they shouldn’t be worried about why someone else got what they are getting. They should worry about what they themselves are getting. And they should be discouraged from continuing to participate in the racist behavior that has plagued this country for so long. Let’s look for ways to fix the problem, not supporting the idea that certain groups should be kept as a permanent underclass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Thank you for your nuanced explanation. I'm more anti-affirmative action than you. I do not believe the children of today should be discriminated against because of the sins of a minority's forefathers. There are millions of people in America right now whose ancestors were nowhere near America during those benighted times, and who contribute economically and culturally to this great nation. Coming to the USA is not an implicit agreement to shoulder the guilt and shame of racist white slaveholders and Amerindian murderers, or anyone else who forced Chinese laborers to build railroads, or who interned Japanese families in concentration camps.

I greatly appreciate living here in a liberal part of the country, since it's less worse than living in a conservative part of the country, but from where I'm standing, Asians are perpetually discriminated against.

- east Asian

Well you fled your own country and came to a country that owed these people. Think of it like a lean on a house you volunteer to buy. You want the benefits of owning that house, then you need to pay off the debt.

First of all, it’s lien.

Second of all, this country was built on the free labor of East Asians too.

East Asians? Free Labor in the United States? I don’t think so. If anything East Asians hat slaves too on American soil. Two of the worst slave owners in history were Chang and Eng Bunker.

PP was talking about the railroads, dummy. And let's try to be more sophisticaed about the concept of "pay" here. Technically, railroad laborers were paid, but so were child laborers. We're talking about massive exploitation of a race.
No is is disagreeing that slavery was horrific and that its effects remain to this day, but it is a big leap to then say that because Afghan interpreters were paid by the US military, that they are therefore morally indebted to African slaves in the 1700s.

we're also talking about minuscule numbers compared to chattel slavery in the south

Stop it seriously. You're devaluing the experience of a whole people. Do you have any idea how racist you sound?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Thank you for your nuanced explanation. I'm more anti-affirmative action than you. I do not believe the children of today should be discriminated against because of the sins of a minority's forefathers. There are millions of people in America right now whose ancestors were nowhere near America during those benighted times, and who contribute economically and culturally to this great nation. Coming to the USA is not an implicit agreement to shoulder the guilt and shame of racist white slaveholders and Amerindian murderers, or anyone else who forced Chinese laborers to build railroads, or who interned Japanese families in concentration camps.

I greatly appreciate living here in a liberal part of the country, since it's less worse than living in a conservative part of the country, but from where I'm standing, Asians are perpetually discriminated against.

- east Asian

Well you fled your own country and came to a country that owed these people. Think of it like a lean on a house you volunteer to buy. You want the benefits of owning that house, then you need to pay off the debt.

First of all, it’s lien.

Second of all, this country was built on the free labor of East Asians too.

East Asians? Free Labor in the United States? I don’t think so. If anything East Asians hat slaves too on American soil. Two of the worst slave owners in history were Chang and Eng Bunker.

PP was talking about the railroads, dummy. And let's try to be more sophisticaed about the concept of "pay" here. Technically, railroad laborers were paid, but so were child laborers. We're talking about massive exploitation of a race.
No is is disagreeing that slavery was horrific and that its effects remain to this day, but it is a big leap to then say that because Afghan interpreters were paid by the US military, that they are therefore morally indebted to African slaves in the 1700s.

we're also talking about minuscule numbers compared to chattel slavery in the south

Stop it seriously. You're devaluing the experience of a whole people. Do you have any idea how racist you sound?[/quote
A whole people? Try 11,000 laborers compared to millions of slaves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This idea of competing oppression is really divisive and I would like to ask you to stop.

I agree, but if you are going to go there, don’t try to to minimize what happened to a specific group of people because you want to assimilate into the dominant group within the system of white supremacy at the expense of the group who has been mistreated the most.

[Anonymous]

This comparative victimhood, Oppression Olympics has to stop. Talking about "who has ben mistreated the most" is the wrong way to think about all the horrible things that have happened in this country's history. Are you even a GDS parent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t it statistically true that all things being equal, a URM applicant has a higher likelihood of admission at a competitive college than a white or Asian applicant?

So if you are a private college counselor sitting down with a URM family, wouldn’t it be accurate to explain the URM designation works to their advantage and, if anything, lean into it and join URM organizations, pursue URM programs and scholarships, etc.?

That’s very different from saying a person was admitted ONLY based on URM status, but surely it would be weird to explain to students that URM status is not a beneficial factor.

If it’s not a beneficial factor, then there wouldn’t be a need to fight for affirmative action to stay and place.

So let’s eliminate school zoning, paid college consultants, test prep centers, and multiple testing opportunities. If we lived in this utopia of merit we wouldn’t need any of it. Tests should be randomly administered with no opportunity for review or to see the correct scores and only the essays written on test day are admissible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Thank you for your nuanced explanation. I'm more anti-affirmative action than you. I do not believe the children of today should be discriminated against because of the sins of a minority's forefathers. There are millions of people in America right now whose ancestors were nowhere near America during those benighted times, and who contribute economically and culturally to this great nation. Coming to the USA is not an implicit agreement to shoulder the guilt and shame of racist white slaveholders and Amerindian murderers, or anyone else who forced Chinese laborers to build railroads, or who interned Japanese families in concentration camps.

I greatly appreciate living here in a liberal part of the country, since it's less worse than living in a conservative part of the country, but from where I'm standing, Asians are perpetually discriminated against.

- east Asian

Well you fled your own country and came to a country that owed these people. Think of it like a lean on a house you volunteer to buy. You want the benefits of owning that house, then you need to pay off the debt.

First of all, it’s lien.

Second of all, this country was built on the free labor of East Asians too.

East Asians? Free Labor in the United States? I don’t think so. If anything East Asians hat slaves too on American soil. Two of the worst slave owners in history were Chang and Eng Bunker.

PP was talking about the railroads, dummy. And let's try to be more sophisticaed about the concept of "pay" here. Technically, railroad laborers were paid, but so were child laborers. We're talking about massive exploitation of a race.
No is is disagreeing that slavery was horrific and that its effects remain to this day, but it is a big leap to then say that because Afghan interpreters were paid by the US military, that they are therefore morally indebted to African slaves in the 1700s.

we're also talking about minuscule numbers compared to chattel slavery in the south

Stop it seriously. You're devaluing the experience of a whole people. Do you have any idea how racist you sound?

Not allowing the poster to change the narrative is racist, as long as it isn’t going along with the code of white supremacy. We understand what you are trying to say.

[Anonymous]

*I'm not the person posting about the railroad workers and haven't posted anything else related to the discussion other than asking you to top criticizing the experience of others who have been oppressed. It's not a competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Thank you for your nuanced explanation. I'm more anti-affirmative action than you. I do not believe the children of today should be discriminated against because of the sins of a minority's forefathers. There are millions of people in America right now whose ancestors were nowhere near America during those benighted times, and who contribute economically and culturally to this great nation. Coming to the USA is not an implicit agreement to shoulder the guilt and shame of racist white slaveholders and Amerindian murderers, or anyone else who forced Chinese laborers to build railroads, or who interned Japanese families in concentration camps.

I greatly appreciate living here in a liberal part of the country, since it's less worse than living in a conservative part of the country, but from where I'm standing, Asians are perpetually discriminated against.

- east Asian

Well you fled your own country and came to a country that owed these people. Think of it like a lean on a house you volunteer to buy. You want the benefits of owning that house, then you need to pay off the debt.

First of all, it’s lien.

Second of all, this country was built on the free labor of East Asians too.

East Asians? Free Labor in the United States? I don’t think so. If anything East Asians hat slaves too on American soil. Two of the worst slave owners in history were Chang and Eng Bunker.

PP was talking about the railroads, dummy. And let's try to be more sophisticaed about the concept of "pay" here. Technically, railroad laborers were paid, but so were child laborers. We're talking about massive exploitation of a race.
No is is disagreeing that slavery was horrific and that its effects remain to this day, but it is a big leap to then say that because Afghan interpreters were paid by the US military, that they are therefore morally indebted to African slaves in the 1700s.

we're also talking about minuscule numbers compared to chattel slavery in the south

Stop it seriously. You're devaluing the experience of a whole people. Do you have any idea how racist you sound?

Not allowing the poster to change the narrative is racist, as long as it isn’t going along with the code of white supremacy. We understand what you are trying to say.

You sound like a disgusting person and I hope you aren't a real GDS parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t it statistically true that all things being equal, a URM applicant has a higher likelihood of admission at a competitive college than a white or Asian applicant?

So if you are a private college counselor sitting down with a URM family, wouldn’t it be accurate to explain the URM designation works to their advantage and, if anything, lean into it and join URM organizations, pursue URM programs and scholarships, etc.?

That’s very different from saying a person was admitted ONLY based on URM status, but surely it would be weird to explain to students that URM status is not a beneficial factor.

If it’s not a beneficial factor, then there wouldn’t be a need to fight for affirmative action to stay and place.

So let’s eliminate school zoning, paid college consultants, test prep centers, and multiple testing opportunities. If we lived in this utopia of merit we wouldn’t need any of it. Tests should be randomly administered with no opportunity for review or to see the correct scores and only the essays written on test day are admissible.

I wouldn’t say that. The better way to handle the situation would be to make it so more people are able to access these resources. They shouldn’t be withheld from certain kids due to systemic racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp here—takeaway for me—if you can’t have this tough conversation at GDS then where can you have it?

Nowhere. Individual white and Asian students are routinely and systematically discriminated against in the college admissions process; those doing so believe this unfairness is acceptable collateral damage to attain equity; even so, this is so obviously unfair to these students as to be optically hard to defend; admitting that this is going on will cause resentment that will be an obstacle to equity; so people are expected to just shut up about it.

I would fight tooth and nail for the white and Asian kids who it seems are getting the short end of the stick, if we did the same for all the other groups who made an impact on the construction of the United States. We have groups that built this country with free labor for hundreds of years, have been a permanent underclass for hundreds of years, there have been no provisions put in place to pay them back for their suffering. Then, we pay people reparations for unfortunate incidents that happened in Germany and Japan.
Now, some of you expect us to feel sorry for you because you think kids belonging to socioeconomic groups that you have systematically oppressed for longer that a half century, don’t have anywhere near the resources you have, and are still underrepresented, we’re able to get a spot at a school you would have liked to have? This is unreal.

You can’t pay back the people who suffered. They are all long dead.

Japanese repatriations were paid to people directly affected. The US doesn’t pay Holocaust reparations. Germany did. To actual victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp here—takeaway for me—if you can’t have this tough conversation at GDS then where can you have it?

Nowhere. Individual white and Asian students are routinely and systematically discriminated against in the college admissions process; those doing so believe this unfairness is acceptable collateral damage to attain equity; even so, this is so obviously unfair to these students as to be optically hard to defend; admitting that this is going on will cause resentment that will be an obstacle to equity; so people are expected to just shut up about it.

I would fight tooth and nail for the white and Asian kids who it seems are getting the short end of the stick, if we did the same for all the other groups who made an impact on the construction of the United States. We have groups that built this country with free labor for hundreds of years, have been a permanent underclass for hundreds of years, there have been no provisions put in place to pay them back for their suffering. Then, we pay people reparations for unfortunate incidents that happened in Germany and Japan.
Now, some of you expect us to feel sorry for you because you think kids belonging to socioeconomic groups that you have systematically oppressed for longer that a half century, don’t have anywhere near the resources you have, and are still underrepresented, we’re able to get a spot at a school you would have liked to have? This is unreal.

“Unfortunate incidents” — WTAF?

[Anonymous]

What an asinine circlejerk. If you go to GDS you’re already 100 steps ahead of kids at Coolidge or Anascotia.