Go for a run if you don't get into your choice college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp here—takeaway for me—if you can’t have this tough conversation at GDS then where can you have it?

Nowhere. Individual white and Asian students are routinely and systematically discriminated against in the college admissions process; those doing so believe this unfairness is acceptable collateral damage to attain equity; even so, this is so obviously unfair to these students as to be optically hard to defend; admitting that this is going on will cause resentment that will be an obstacle to equity; so people are expected to just shut up about it.

This is true - esp. since 2020. Test optional has powered this initiative. AOs look askance at non-URM/non-recruited athlete applicants who dont submit test scores. at our DMV private, the HYPs this year were mostly recruited athletes who went TO or URM who went TO....just a fact. I'm glad they got in. But it is a zero sum game at each college. Spots not being added

[Anonymous]

How is it a zero sum game? The colleges got what they wanted. Athletes are go-getters. That’s what they want.

You didn’t get what you want. Your kid didn’t get what you told them they deserved. Is your kid still positioned to lead an interesting rewarding life? Yes, if you give them room to do that.

-parent of non-athletes who always seem to be doing some new, interesting things and are unlikely to attend T-20 schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Nobody is getting in that is under qualified academically. That is what people just can’t get.

That part!!!!!! People just convince themselves of whatever they must to sleep at night. Being underrepresented does not equal being under qualified. In fact, I would argue, most of us are overqualified but they are not prepared for that discussion! It can't be fathomed, their kid is not good enough on their own merit so they have to pull the race card.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is it a zero sum game? The colleges got what they wanted. Athletes are go-getters. That’s what they want.

You didn’t get what you want. Your kid didn’t get what you told them they deserved. Is your kid still positioned to lead an interesting rewarding life? Yes, if you give them room to do that.

-parent of non-athletes who always seem to be doing some new, interesting things and are unlikely to attend T-20 schools

It's the literal definition of zero sum. There are a fixed number of slots and the institutional priorities have changed - don't mean fencing and wrestling and volleyball recruits. Those have always been there

I am not whining about it. My kid is just fine - thanks for asking in your own sh*tty way - and in at the places (non T20) that they want to be in. They will have a great life BTW

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Thank you for your nuanced explanation. I'm more anti-affirmative action than you. I do not believe the children of today should be discriminated against because of the sins of a minority's forefathers. There are millions of people in America right now whose ancestors were nowhere near America during those benighted times, and who contribute economically and culturally to this great nation. Coming to the USA is not an implicit agreement to shoulder the guilt and shame of racist white slaveholders and Amerindian murderers, or anyone else who forced Chinese laborers to build railroads, or who interned Japanese families in concentration camps.

I greatly appreciate living here in a liberal part of the country, since it's less worse than living in a conservative part of the country, but from where I'm standing, Asians are perpetually discriminated against.

- east Asian

Well you fled your own country and came to a country that owed these people. Think of it like a lean on a house you volunteer to buy. You want the benefits of owning that house, then you need to pay off the debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is it a zero sum game? The colleges got what they wanted. Athletes are go-getters. That’s what they want.

You didn’t get what you want. Your kid didn’t get what you told them they deserved. Is your kid still positioned to lead an interesting rewarding life? Yes, if you give them room to do that.

-parent of non-athletes who always seem to be doing some new, interesting things and are unlikely to attend T-20 schools

It's the literal definition of zero sum. There are a fixed number of slots and the institutional priorities have changed - don't mean fencing and wrestling and volleyball recruits. Those have always been there

I am not whining about it. My kid is just fine - thanks for asking in your own sh*tty way - and in at the places (non T20) that they want to be in. They will have a great life BTW

That is why it's not a zero sum game, nobody lost anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Nobody is getting in that is under qualified academically. That is what people just can’t get.

That part!!!!!! People just convince themselves of whatever they must to sleep at night. Being underrepresented does not equal being under qualified. In fact, I would argue, most of us are overqualified but they are not prepared for that discussion! It can't be fathomed, their kid is not good enough on their own merit so they have to pull the race card.

People get it. Of course they do. But when students see average SATs and average GPAs for kids who get those spots, and then then see that the average SAT/GPA for URM/athletes/legacy is so much lower than the average admitted student, that's when people start arguing that the admissions are not fair. The terms "overqualified" and "underqualified" have no teeth.

[Anonymous]

This is a school that has taught students to look at the world through a prism of race (and gender, etc), and now the school is mad that students are looking at college admissions through....a prism of race?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Thank you for your nuanced explanation. I'm more anti-affirmative action than you. I do not believe the children of today should be discriminated against because of the sins of a minority's forefathers. There are millions of people in America right now whose ancestors were nowhere near America during those benighted times, and who contribute economically and culturally to this great nation. Coming to the USA is not an implicit agreement to shoulder the guilt and shame of racist white slaveholders and Amerindian murderers, or anyone else who forced Chinese laborers to build railroads, or who interned Japanese families in concentration camps.

I greatly appreciate living here in a liberal part of the country, since it's less worse than living in a conservative part of the country, but from where I'm standing, Asians are perpetually discriminated against.

- east Asian

Well you fled your own country and came to a country that owed these people. Think of it like a lean on a house you volunteer to buy. You want the benefits of owning that house, then you need to pay off the debt.

This is actually a terrible analogy. How much does each person have to contribute to pay off this debt? And what about families that are fleeing to the US who have already contributed massively to the US? What about Iraqi and Afghan and Vietnamese translators for the US military? You're telling me that those families, who have sacrified so much for the US, and rightfully seek asylum in this country are "volunteering" to buy this house?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Nobody is getting in that is under qualified academically. That is what people just can’t get.

That part!!!!!! People just convince themselves of whatever they must to sleep at night. Being underrepresented does not equal being under qualified. In fact, I would argue, most of us are overqualified but they are not prepared for that discussion! It can't be fathomed, their kid is not good enough on their own merit so they have to pull the race card.

People get it. Of course they do. But when students see average SATs and average GPAs for kids who get those spots, and then then see that the average SAT/GPA for URM/athletes/legacy is so much lower than the average admitted student, that's when people start arguing that the admissions are not fair. The terms "overqualified" and "underqualified" have no teeth.

According to the top colleges/university's in the US themselves, they are explicitly stating they are caring a lot LESS about SAT's/GPA's in general. They are turning down thousands of applicants with better than perfect grades and test scores! They are looking for much more! It's literally there on their website. And I've been in DC Privates for 6 years now and have NO idea what any other child's GPA or test scores are. So how are people so knowledgeable that grades and test scores are lower? Rhetorical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not very kind of GDS students to act with such racism. The social justice side of GDS is all fine and dandy until college decisions come out and then the true racism peaks through. I say this as a liberal, this is why we are ridiculed all the time. Liberals talk about equity etc but with something is perceived as interfering with your white privilege, it’s a problem.

The school just got done lecturing seniors about why it’s not cool to say black students are getting into college because AA and they have the audacity to hbe the following reaction:

Holder said students were talking about the meeting in the hallways after it ended. “My friends were talking about it like ‘What just happened?’ and ‘Why did we need that? It was unnecessary,’” she said.

After all these years at GDS, these students don’t know the inherit value of their rich families with elite colleges than they are born with they start off at first base yet they yell outrage when a Black student gets hit by a ball and can walk to first.

This is pathetic. I’m outraged. Why would any family want their kid at this pretentious and fake environment, yet alone pay $50K+?

I think the quotes you are including here is misleading. The article made clear that the people who organized the meeting did a poor job of explaining what incident prompted the meeting, and then started rambling about the history of affirmative action. It sounds like there was no meeting agenda provided at the start, and many students were legitimately confused about what the meeting was meant to accomplish. In the thread about the Auger Bit’s coverage of GDS teachers’ use of Chat GPT for report card comments, I shared this take from a student which I find quite thoughtful (though it doesn’t make most of the meeting organizers look good):

Freeman said at one point, Livelli said that since you don’t know what goes into people’s college processes, you can’t attribute a person’s acceptance or rejection from a college to their race. “It felt like the implication was—certainly, that’s true—but the implication was ‘You can’t act like it’s a factor at all because you don’t know,’” he said. “It seems like the outburst that caused the whole controversy was somebody acting like it was the one singular factor, which obviously doesn’t make sense—that’s wrong. But what’s equally wrong is pretending like it’s not a factor at all. It affects admission; it just felt a little disingenuous.”

Freeman added that comments from college counselors essentially told students to “discontinue” negative thoughts they had when they were faced with rejection—thoughts like “I didn’t get in, and it’s because of this.” He said they “spoke extremely euphemistically about it, which also, I didn’t like,” and added that he thought the college counselors’ comments made it seem like they didn’t regard students’ discontented feelings during the college process as valid.

“It’s understandable you would be upset that you didn’t get in. It’s not understandable that it came out that way,” he said of the comments that prompted the meeting, “but you need help working through it. And I think the decision to just be like, ‘Oh, hey, just don’t talk about it at all’ or ‘Just pretend like you’re happy when you’re not’ is definitely not the solution. To me, it feels like bottling it up like that is what’s going to lead to the hurtful outbursts, as opposed to the healthy expressions of your own disappointment.” He added that he agreed with an idea Wong shared that students should try to work through their emotions in a healthy way, by doing something like going on a run, if they feel disappointed with results they receive from colleges.

“facilitators revealed that “someone—or many people—made comments about how people of color were only getting into their ED schools or really competitive schools because of their race and affirmative action.”

The student took away “why did we need that and it was unnecessary”.

No misconstruing that. The student quoted is an elitist privileged snowflake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Nobody is getting in that is under qualified academically. That is what people just can’t get.

That part!!!!!! People just convince themselves of whatever they must to sleep at night. Being underrepresented does not equal being under qualified. In fact, I would argue, most of us are overqualified but they are not prepared for that discussion! It can't be fathomed, their kid is not good enough on their own merit so they have to pull the race card.

People get it. Of course they do. But when students see average SATs and average GPAs for kids who get those spots, and then then see that the average SAT/GPA for URM/athletes/legacy is so much lower than the average admitted student, that's when people start arguing that the admissions are not fair. The terms "overqualified" and "underqualified" have no teeth.

According to the top colleges/university's in the US themselves, they are explicitly stating they are caring a lot LESS about SAT's/GPA's in general. They are turning down thousands of applicants with better than perfect grades and test scores! They are looking for much more! It's literally there on their website. And I've been in DC Privates for 6 years now and have NO idea what any other child's GPA or test scores are. So how are people so knowledgeable that grades and test scores are lower? Rhetorical.

Colleges care less, but they are not at the point where they are conducting lotteries, are they? Grades and SATs do matter, still. Some schools actually share average GPAs and SATs. All, except GDS, share Naviance-type data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

+1

That said, Gds isn’t big on promoting pro-social behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affirmative action does boost minority students into the top schools even if they are under qualified academically. That is the point— in the service of righting systemic and historical inequity. At the same time, is still rude and antisocial to point out that any individual person may have gotten in through AA.

Im South Asian, a liberal, and feel very mixed about AA, not only because it discriminates against Asian students but also because it creates the unfair dynamic where other minorities are seen as having gotten in with lower standards, which is unfair to those who are highly qualified. I think these students need a lesson in graciousness and how to cope with disappointments rather than more indoctrination in why AA is the only way.

Nobody is getting in that is under qualified academically. That is what people just can’t get.

That part!!!!!! People just convince themselves of whatever they must to sleep at night. Being underrepresented does not equal being under qualified. In fact, I would argue, most of us are overqualified but they are not prepared for that discussion! It can't be fathomed, their kid is not good enough on their own merit so they have to pull the race card.

People get it. Of course they do. But when students see average SATs and average GPAs for kids who get those spots, and then then see that the average SAT/GPA for URM/athletes/legacy is so much lower than the average admitted student, that's when people start arguing that the admissions are not fair. The terms "overqualified" and "underqualified" have no teeth.

According to the top colleges/university's in the US themselves, they are explicitly stating they are caring a lot LESS about SAT's/GPA's in general. They are turning down thousands of applicants with better than perfect grades and test scores! They are looking for much more! It's literally there on their website. And I've been in DC Privates for 6 years now and have NO idea what any other child's GPA or test scores are. So how are people so knowledgeable that grades and test scores are lower? Rhetorical.

Colleges care less, but they are not at the point where they are conducting lotteries, are they? Grades and SATs do matter, still. Some schools actually share average GPAs and SATs. All, except GDS, share Naviance-type data.

Even if you see an admitted student has a lower GPA than your student that was rejected, does not mean that you know the ECs, interview skills, or writing strength of that student. GPAs are only one measure.

I don’t understand how SC is going to outlaw the intangibles that colleges can still use (first gen, likability, personal essays explaining hardships students overcome)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not very kind of GDS students to act with such racism. The social justice side of GDS is all fine and dandy until college decisions come out and then the true racism peaks through. I say this as a liberal, this is why we are ridiculed all the time. Liberals talk about equity etc but with something is perceived as interfering with your white privilege, it’s a problem.

The school just got done lecturing seniors about why it’s not cool to say black students are getting into college because AA and they have the audacity to hbe the following reaction:

Holder said students were talking about the meeting in the hallways after it ended. “My friends were talking about it like ‘What just happened?’ and ‘Why did we need that? It was unnecessary,’” she said.

After all these years at GDS, these students don’t know the inherit value of their rich families with elite colleges than they are born with they start off at first base yet they yell outrage when a Black student gets hit by a ball and can walk to first.

This is pathetic. I’m outraged. Why would any family want their kid at this pretentious and fake environment, yet alone pay $50K+?

I think the quotes you are including here is misleading. The article made clear that the people who organized the meeting did a poor job of explaining what incident prompted the meeting, and then started rambling about the history of affirmative action. It sounds like there was no meeting agenda provided at the start, and many students were legitimately confused about what the meeting was meant to accomplish. In the thread about the Auger Bit’s coverage of GDS teachers’ use of Chat GPT for report card comments, I shared this take from a student which I find quite thoughtful (though it doesn’t make most of the meeting organizers look good):

Freeman said at one point, Livelli said that since you don’t know what goes into people’s college processes, you can’t attribute a person’s acceptance or rejection from a college to their race. “It felt like the implication was—certainly, that’s true—but the implication was ‘You can’t act like it’s a factor at all because you don’t know,’” he said. “It seems like the outburst that caused the whole controversy was somebody acting like it was the one singular factor, which obviously doesn’t make sense—that’s wrong. But what’s equally wrong is pretending like it’s not a factor at all. It affects admission; it just felt a little disingenuous.”

Freeman added that comments from college counselors essentially told students to “discontinue” negative thoughts they had when they were faced with rejection—thoughts like “I didn’t get in, and it’s because of this.” He said they “spoke extremely euphemistically about it, which also, I didn’t like,” and added that he thought the college counselors’ comments made it seem like they didn’t regard students’ discontented feelings during the college process as valid.

“It’s understandable you would be upset that you didn’t get in. It’s not understandable that it came out that way,” he said of the comments that prompted the meeting, “but you need help working through it. And I think the decision to just be like, ‘Oh, hey, just don’t talk about it at all’ or ‘Just pretend like you’re happy when you’re not’ is definitely not the solution. To me, it feels like bottling it up like that is what’s going to lead to the hurtful outbursts, as opposed to the healthy expressions of your own disappointment.” He added that he agreed with an idea Wong shared that students should try to work through their emotions in a healthy way, by doing something like going on a run, if they feel disappointed with results they receive from colleges.

“facilitators revealed that “someone—or many people—made comments about how people of color were only getting into their ED schools or really competitive schools because of their race and affirmative action.”

The student took away “why did we need that and it was unnecessary”.

No misconstruing that. The student quoted is an elitist privileged snowflake.

Sure, that can be misconstrued. The student may have been reacting to the poorly organized meeting format or resenting the comment that all the seniors needed to do better because perhaps the student in question is not among those who would have ever made a racist statement in the first place. The article makes clear that the Administration needs to do a better job helping students deal with admissions disappointments and conveying the norms that they expect students to adhere to, but I think you are taking far too harsh a view of the students who are quoted.

I don’t have a kid in private school right now, and am turned off by many of the things I’ve heard about GDS, including how they handle APs and AP tests. But I agree with OP that the Auger Bit and students involved are really impressive. I also will commend the Administration for letting these articles go forward, seemingly without any efforts at censorship.