Why is Sales filled with such sleaze bags?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks are academically weak and need some way to make money.

A good salesman out earns most people with more impressive degrees. Even in fields with professional degrees, rainmaker big law partners are really just salesmen. The difference between a great doctor and a regular doctor usually comes down less to skill and more to their ability to sell themselves as a great doctor. I can't think of any field where this doesn't apply, even the best engineers who form start ups are successful in raising VC because they can sell themselves and their ideas.

Brings up another point - to sales, jobs are 100% about money. That's why academically strong people look down on them. Salespeople can't and don't want to understand the products they're selling at a deep level, nor understand contract terms. Just pump and sell.

Not true.

My cousin (Yale history major, Harvard MBA) is on his 5th VC-backed pre-iPO startup as Head of Enterprise Sales and Biz Dev over the last 20 years.
True he doesn’t bother with his pedigree pitch at all, but is very good with people and a problem solver. He has his pick of job offers every time a company exits, his wife is a lawyer and law professor and both have time to coach their kids’ sports. Never hear a bad word about him and I get called out for the same last name as him in my industry all the time.

And yes, he understands the tech and deep stack and customer very well. I won’t even tell you what kind of 5-year employment terms he can command.

He came from money so I’m sure a lot of this was deep networking.

Plebs don’t major in history at Yale.

Entrepreneurial family for sure. Made people a lot of money and lost people a lot of money.

Nothing to do with sales at an enterprise tech co. Works very hard, very smartly his whole life. Doubly so after his father died of cancer when he was a teen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks are academically weak and need some way to make money.

A good salesman out earns most people with more impressive degrees. Even in fields with professional degrees, rainmaker big law partners are really just salesmen. The difference between a great doctor and a regular doctor usually comes down less to skill and more to their ability to sell themselves as a great doctor. I can't think of any field where this doesn't apply, even the best engineers who form start ups are successful in raising VC because they can sell themselves and their ideas.

Brings up another point - to sales, jobs are 100% about money. That's why academically strong people look down on them. Salespeople can't and don't want to understand the products they're selling at a deep level, nor understand contract terms. Just pump and sell.

Not true.

My cousin (Yale history major, Harvard MBA) is on his 5th VC-backed pre-iPO startup as Head of Enterprise Sales and Biz Dev over the last 20 years.
True he doesn’t bother with his pedigree pitch at all, but is very good with people and a problem solver. He has his pick of job offers every time a company exits, his wife is a lawyer and law professor and both have time to coach their kids’ sports. Never hear a bad word about him and I get called out for the same last name as him in my industry all the time.

And yes, he understands the tech and deep stack and customer very well. I won’t even tell you what kind of 5-year employment terms he can command.

He came from money so I’m sure a lot of this was deep networking.

Plebs don’t major in history at Yale.

Entrepreneurial family for sure. Made people a lot of money and lost people a lot of money.

Nothing to do with sales at an enterprise tech co. Works very hard, very smartly his whole life. Doubly so after his father died of cancer when he was a teen.

How does your cousin understand so much about complex tech issues and whatever he is selling/ trying to solve for the customer (presumably also in the tech industry) as a history/ business major??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Title says it all. There is the rare 1 or 2 who have some sense of morals but the rest…scary. Do these people change in the role or does the role attract a certain type?

Same type as politicians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks are academically weak and need some way to make money.

A good salesman out earns most people with more impressive degrees. Even in fields with professional degrees, rainmaker big law partners are really just salesmen. The difference between a great doctor and a regular doctor usually comes down less to skill and more to their ability to sell themselves as a great doctor. I can't think of any field where this doesn't apply, even the best engineers who form start ups are successful in raising VC because they can sell themselves and their ideas.

Brings up another point - to sales, jobs are 100% about money. That's why academically strong people look down on them. Salespeople can't and don't want to understand the products they're selling at a deep level, nor understand contract terms. Just pump and sell.

Not true.

My cousin (Yale history major, Harvard MBA) is on his 5th VC-backed pre-iPO startup as Head of Enterprise Sales and Biz Dev over the last 20 years.
True he doesn’t bother with his pedigree pitch at all, but is very good with people and a problem solver. He has his pick of job offers every time a company exits, his wife is a lawyer and law professor and both have time to coach their kids’ sports. Never hear a bad word about him and I get called out for the same last name as him in my industry all the time.

And yes, he understands the tech and deep stack and customer very well. I won’t even tell you what kind of 5-year employment terms he can command.

He came from money so I’m sure a lot of this was deep networking.

Plebs don’t major in history at Yale.

Entrepreneurial family for sure. Made people a lot of money and lost people a lot of money.

Nothing to do with sales at an enterprise tech co. Works very hard, very smartly his whole life. Doubly so after his father died of cancer when he was a teen.

How does your cousin understand so much about complex tech issues and whatever he is selling/ trying to solve for the customer (presumably also in the tech industry) as a history/ business major??

He doesn’t. I’m 100% sure he has a world class golf game, growing up playing at the family club.

Go read Bully Market about how a sleaze bond trader was sleeping with clients at Goldman, but they wouldn’t reprimand him because of his great gold game.

With that pedigree, you know he came from money. I went to an Ivy, all the first gens study engineering or medicine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title says it all. There is the rare 1 or 2 who have some sense of morals but the rest…scary. Do these people change in the role or does the role attract a certain type?

Same type as politicians.

And they run the world. Sales people have big picture intelligence. They ask questions of small minded people like Fauci “how many people will die of … lockdown depression … millions of unvaxxed crossing the borders … avoidance of health checkups or cancer treatments … lost jobs… inhaling their own breath in masks for extended periods… taking experimental rushed vaccines ?” And the small minded non sales types say “ if we can save one life from Covid it’s worth it”. Major dum dums regarding multiple angles of reality.

[Anonymous]

I agree, until my brother got into sales straight out of college. None of us thought he'd make it far because he is WAY too honest and earnest. Well, the joke was on us, because he quickly became his company's top earner; apparently clients loved his sincerity and his utter lack of artifice. We were all shocked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree, until my brother got into sales straight out of college. None of us thought he'd make it far because he is WAY too honest and earnest. Well, the joke was on us, because he quickly became his company's top earner; apparently clients loved his sincerity and his utter lack of artifice. We were all shocked.

Ding ding ding!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree, until my brother got into sales straight out of college. None of us thought he'd make it far because he is WAY too honest and earnest. Well, the joke was on us, because he quickly became his company's top earner; apparently clients loved his sincerity and his utter lack of artifice. We were all shocked.

So you are saying he is exceptional by being sincere ? That is like proving the OPs thesis.

[Anonymous]

I will say that I know two salespeople pretty well. Both men.

They both seem intelligent enough but no one was calling them "the smartest guy I know" at any point in their lives.

One is much more sleazy than the other and though he's a nice enough guy I have a hard time enjoying his company because of the sleazy cheesy lowest common denominator aura. The less sleazy one is genuinely charismatic and witty, but quiet. Guess which one is in "buy this now!" sales and which one is in the more maintaining relationships kind of sales?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say that I know two salespeople pretty well. Both men.

They both seem intelligent enough but no one was calling them "the smartest guy I know" at any point in their lives.

One is much more sleazy than the other and though he's a nice enough guy I have a hard time enjoying his company because of the sleazy cheesy lowest common denominator aura. The less sleazy one is genuinely charismatic and witty, but quiet. Guess which one is in "buy this now!" sales and which one is in the more maintaining relationships kind of sales?

I mean part of it is the role in the company. Do you maintain existing clients (I think this is inside sales) where you keep them up to date, help with renewals, and try to expand business by offering new services or products to their existing account. Generally that is lower stakes and more just being chummy versus trying to procure new clients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks are academically weak and need some way to make money.

A good salesman out earns most people with more impressive degrees. Even in fields with professional degrees, rainmaker big law partners are really just salesmen. The difference between a great doctor and a regular doctor usually comes down less to skill and more to their ability to sell themselves as a great doctor. I can't think of any field where this doesn't apply, even the best engineers who form start ups are successful in raising VC because they can sell themselves and their ideas.

My DH Is in sales and has a bachelor's in kinesiology/exercise science from a state school. He outearns me and I have an Ivy MBA.

But you're smarter than he is, right? Who cares how much he earns? I think if you value intellect, it's hard to admire the sales skill unless you're selling something sophisticated.

NP here. All the brilliant people are master sellers. It's the ultimate intellect to combine IQ with EQ and be a master manipulator.