Why is it MCPS policy to not share discipline measures of other kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update.

As those who were skeptical that MCPS would do anything guessed, the shitshow has continued. Despite promising to "separate" my daughter from the offending child, this little girl has continued her reign of terror against my DD (and also in disrupting the class TBH). Whatever disciplinary steps they took with this little girl have utterly failed and she is not deterred.

The teacher is more responsive and of course continues to apologize that my daughter is experiencing this. I'm awaiting an update on "next steps" from the teacher and principal at the moment. But MCPS is not serious about the safety and wellbeing of its students.

Can you describe the reign of terror? If she physically striking your child? If so, is it happening in class, on the playground, etc.? My son had a bully situation where he was repeatedly punched in the stomach and knocked down by the other boy. We had a note put in his file that he was never to be put in the same class with the boy again, and they never were -- for another 5 years. So that's an easy thing for them to do. They also had additional folks on the playground for a while to monitor them, but I don't know how long that lasted, My son basically learned to keep his distance from this other boy (and 8 years later, he still does!).

I don't personally support expulsion or even long suspensions of kids this age -- it really isn't effective. But the school can and should do things to assist with the physical safety of your child. Stop focusing on what they are doing to the other child, and start focusing on what they should be doing FOR your child. You'll get a lot less resistance if you switch your focus. If the assistant principal needs to sit in the room for a few weeks to separate them, maybe that's the solution.

OP here, I described it. It started out as physical, with the punching, kicking and pushing, and now it's just menacing glares, curse words and insults when the girl thinks adults aren't looking or paying attention.

It happens wherever the girl thinks there's an opportunity. She has been sat next to the teacher as a result of her bad behavior, but she makes excuses to get up, such as washing her hands, so she can mumble curse words and insults to my daughter on the way to the sink.

Other incidents have occurred at recess or lunch, which is why the whole keeping them apart thing is futile, unless the school has someone physically keeping them apart at all times, which they don't.

I don't know what you mean by expulsion or long suspension not being effective. It would certainly be effective at providing my daughter with peace of mind and security. And that's my main focus and priority. Not in preserving the access for this child, who clearly needs strong and severe help and intervention, from continuing to harass my daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, our DS was full on assaulted, caught on cameras, ran to the bus and not a single adult intervened because it was Friday dismissal and everyone was packing their bags to jet out of the building. Unfortunately, we had to contact the police to document the assault and they encouraged us to file for a Peace Order. Victim and assailant have to appear in court and the judge decides the issue. The judge was as kind as could be to our DS, and gave a stern speech to the other families. With this, and only this, we were able to separate our DS from the aggressors for 1 year. Fill out a bullying with each incidence and reach out to the MCPS security office to ask for guidance. Just create a lot of noise and plenty of paper trails. Don't wait for the school to lead the process.

I didn't think they would result assault between kids to MCPD. That's highly unusual given that they're minors and juveniles.

What did the 1-year separation look like for you all? How did the school implement it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, our DS was full on assaulted, caught on cameras, ran to the bus and not a single adult intervened because it was Friday dismissal and everyone was packing their bags to jet out of the building. Unfortunately, we had to contact the police to document the assault and they encouraged us to file for a Peace Order. Victim and assailant have to appear in court and the judge decides the issue. The judge was as kind as could be to our DS, and gave a stern speech to the other families. With this, and only this, we were able to separate our DS from the aggressors for 1 year. Fill out a bullying with each incidence and reach out to the MCPS security office to ask for guidance. Just create a lot of noise and plenty of paper trails. Don't wait for the school to lead the process.

I didn't think they would result assault between kids to MCPD. That's highly unusual given that they're minors and juveniles.

What did the 1-year separation look like for you all? How did the school implement it?

PP here. Sorry meant to say I didn't think they would "report" assault between kids to MCPD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, our DS was full on assaulted, caught on cameras, ran to the bus and not a single adult intervened because it was Friday dismissal and everyone was packing their bags to jet out of the building. Unfortunately, we had to contact the police to document the assault and they encouraged us to file for a Peace Order. Victim and assailant have to appear in court and the judge decides the issue. The judge was as kind as could be to our DS, and gave a stern speech to the other families. With this, and only this, we were able to separate our DS from the aggressors for 1 year. Fill out a bullying with each incidence and reach out to the MCPS security office to ask for guidance. Just create a lot of noise and plenty of paper trails. Don't wait for the school to lead the process.

I didn't think they would result assault between kids to MCPD. That's highly unusual given that they're minors and juveniles.

What did the 1-year separation look like for you all? How did the school implement it?

I work in another district and had been advised to contact local PD. Very gentle process, officer came to the house to ask our child questions. It was the equivalent of having a cop document a minor car accident. We then went to juvenile services to initiate the peace order. They investigate with sensitivity to the fact that they are kids, as you mentioned. I think there might have been a back story on these 2 assailants, perhaps that we weren't privy to (FERPA). We did, btw, call a school meeting in the midst of this because we felt they were trying to go down the restorative justice path - we refused consent. I printing out a large peer-reviewed study of the impact of bullying/assault on victims and had called in the SRO assigned to our school at the time as well as cluster security head to the meeting. I needed to get their attention, not knowing if we'd get the Peace Order granted.

Then we got a court date and the judge reviewed the details for the Peace Order, and she didn't hesitate, even when the other kids' parents tried to lie that our child instigated it. The video clearly captured that is was a targeted and one-sided assault, but FYI no one will let parents see the CCTV (again, FERPA). Judge made it clear to the other children that should they even look at our DS in an intimidating manner or say/do anything, including on social media that she would initiate juvenile services discipline. School then changed the other 2 kids' schedule so that they never had classes together and were legally bound to uphold the court order. It was a total headache for them, but school did a great job of upholding it.

[Anonymous]

PP here.

*printed

I'll also add that we really hesitated contacting MCPD, but after speaking to various staff members in my district the consensus was that since it was so clear cut in terms of assault that we'd be doing the other kids somewhat of a favor since they were in Middle School. There are studies showing that many of these behaviors in that age group do not have a positive trajectory. Ultimately, better to shake them up and be clear of consequences than to 'let it go'. The students did also get 2 days of in-school suspension.

I later met a parent who was a victims' rights specialist and she told me that studies have shown that even though it's emotionally draining, letting our child speak up and confront their aggressors...it yields the best psychological result. A few months of talk therapy also helped our child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, our DS was full on assaulted, caught on cameras, ran to the bus and not a single adult intervened because it was Friday dismissal and everyone was packing their bags to jet out of the building. Unfortunately, we had to contact the police to document the assault and they encouraged us to file for a Peace Order. Victim and assailant have to appear in court and the judge decides the issue. The judge was as kind as could be to our DS, and gave a stern speech to the other families. With this, and only this, we were able to separate our DS from the aggressors for 1 year. Fill out a bullying with each incidence and reach out to the MCPS security office to ask for guidance. Just create a lot of noise and plenty of paper trails. Don't wait for the school to lead the process.

I didn't think they would result assault between kids to MCPD. That's highly unusual given that they're minors and juveniles.

What did the 1-year separation look like for you all? How did the school implement it?

I work in another district and had been advised to contact local PD. Very gentle process, officer came to the house to ask our child questions. It was the equivalent of having a cop document a minor car accident. We then went to juvenile services to initiate the peace order. They investigate with sensitivity to the fact that they are kids, as you mentioned. I think there might have been a back story on these 2 assailants, perhaps that we weren't privy to (FERPA). We did, btw, call a school meeting in the midst of this because we felt they were trying to go down the restorative justice path - we refused consent. I printing out a large peer-reviewed study of the impact of bullying/assault on victims and had called in the SRO assigned to our school at the time as well as cluster security head to the meeting. I needed to get their attention, not knowing if we'd get the Peace Order granted.

Then we got a court date and the judge reviewed the details for the Peace Order, and she didn't hesitate, even when the other kids' parents tried to lie that our child instigated it. The video clearly captured that is was a targeted and one-sided assault, but FYI no one will let parents see the CCTV (again, FERPA). Judge made it clear to the other children that should they even look at our DS in an intimidating manner or say/do anything, including on social media that she would initiate juvenile services discipline. School then changed the other 2 kids' schedule so that they never had classes together and were legally bound to uphold the court order. It was a total headache for them, but school did a great job of upholding it.

WOW! Kudos to you and thank you for sharing your experience. Hopefully our situation doesn't get to that point, but if it does, I know what to do thanks to you!

[Anonymous]

Thanks! I'm sorry your family is experiencing this, but happy to pass on our experience. Best wishes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, we had a minor conflict or issue with DD and another girl at school last week. I reached out to the teacher via email and was told they would address it and was reminded: "I will not be able to share with you how other students are being disciplined, per MCPS policy."

And it strikes me as really wrongheaded. Part of making kids feel whole when there's a conflict is knowing that consequences (hopefully just and fair ones) are being doled out for the parties involved. A victim of a crime gets to know if their assaulter is sentenced.

So how and why did MCPS get to a place where the parents of a child who's being bullied or harassed don't have the ability to reassure their child that the bully or antagonist is being appropriately punished? Who's idea was this?

because it would be illegal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, our DS was full on assaulted, caught on cameras, ran to the bus and not a single adult intervened because it was Friday dismissal and everyone was packing their bags to jet out of the building. Unfortunately, we had to contact the police to document the assault and they encouraged us to file for a Peace Order. Victim and assailant have to appear in court and the judge decides the issue. The judge was as kind as could be to our DS, and gave a stern speech to the other families. With this, and only this, we were able to separate our DS from the aggressors for 1 year. Fill out a bullying with each incidence and reach out to the MCPS security office to ask for guidance. Just create a lot of noise and plenty of paper trails. Don't wait for the school to lead the process.

I didn't think they would result assault between kids to MCPD. That's highly unusual given that they're minors and juveniles.

What did the 1-year separation look like for you all? How did the school implement it?

I work in another district and had been advised to contact local PD. Very gentle process, officer came to the house to ask our child questions. It was the equivalent of having a cop document a minor car accident. We then went to juvenile services to initiate the peace order. They investigate with sensitivity to the fact that they are kids, as you mentioned. I think there might have been a back story on these 2 assailants, perhaps that we weren't privy to (FERPA). We did, btw, call a school meeting in the midst of this because we felt they were trying to go down the restorative justice path - we refused consent. I printing out a large peer-reviewed study of the impact of bullying/assault on victims and had called in the SRO assigned to our school at the time as well as cluster security head to the meeting. I needed to get their attention, not knowing if we'd get the Peace Order granted.

Then we got a court date and the judge reviewed the details for the Peace Order, and she didn't hesitate, even when the other kids' parents tried to lie that our child instigated it. The video clearly captured that is was a targeted and one-sided assault, but FYI no one will let parents see the CCTV (again, FERPA). Judge made it clear to the other children that should they even look at our DS in an intimidating manner or say/do anything, including on social media that she would initiate juvenile services discipline. School then changed the other 2 kids' schedule so that they never had classes together and were legally bound to uphold the court order. It was a total headache for them, but school did a great job of upholding it.

DP

Good for you, PP! Glad you were able to advocate so strongly for your child and handle things. Definitely a huge hassle, but it sounds like you took the right approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, we had a minor conflict or issue with DD and another girl at school last week. I reached out to the teacher via email and was told they would address it and was reminded: "I will not be able to share with you how other students are being disciplined, per MCPS policy."

And it strikes me as really wrongheaded. Part of making kids feel whole when there's a conflict is knowing that consequences (hopefully just and fair ones) are being doled out for the parties involved. A victim of a crime gets to know if their assaulter is sentenced.

So how and why did MCPS get to a place where the parents of a child who's being bullied or harassed don't have the ability to reassure their child that the bully or antagonist is being appropriately punished? Who's idea was this?

because it would be illegal

It is crazy that this thread has gone on so long with OP and PPs asking the same question and getting the same answer - it is against federal law, which states and localities must follow to disclose the personal educational records of any student. This law - FERPA - prohibits disclosure of any student’s disciplinary actions except to other school officials with a need to know.

You can very well explain to your child that the school system said it would provide consequences but can’t reveal what they are because as a society we believe kids are you and capable of change and shouldn’t be burdened with public disclosure of their bad behavior. You can also remind you child that sometimes kids get punished but they still engage in bad behavior and that means we have to report and escalate.

File a bullying form in MCPS. If the behavior warrants a police report or peace order, then do that. You and your child should know that crimes should be reported to the police - assault, theft, sexual assault of any type, etc. No school system is capable of properly investigating or prosecuting these.

I’m sorry your kid is going through this, but you are focusing on the wrong thing - focus on the behavior and as long as it continues, keep reporting and escalating each time, especially outside the individual school to supervisory staff, Title IX coordinator (if there is a gendered component to the bullying) or to the police. What will give your kid a sense of justice is to see the behaviors stop not to know what kind of punishment was meted out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is an incredibly common and normal policy. It is also true in the vast majority of workplaces.

If your kid gets in a fight with another child at the playground, is the other parent entitled to demand that you tell them the consequences/punishment you imposed?
If a coworker insults/bullies you in the workplace, are you entitled to know exactly what consequences were imposed?

No. Because the real world doesn't operate that way. It is the responsibility if the organization to create and keep a safe environment. Nobody that was the "victim" needs to know how they do that, just that the environment is safe.

In the real world, if I commit a crime, the punishment is not kept a secret.

Also, I have no idea how you assure the victim the environment is safe without detailing the consequences for those violate the rules of said environment. Why should you believe them?

Not if you are a minor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, we had a minor conflict or issue with DD and another girl at school last week. I reached out to the teacher via email and was told they would address it and was reminded: "I will not be able to share with you how other students are being disciplined, per MCPS policy."

And it strikes me as really wrongheaded. Part of making kids feel whole when there's a conflict is knowing that consequences (hopefully just and fair ones) are being doled out for the parties involved. A victim of a crime gets to know if their assaulter is sentenced.

So how and why did MCPS get to a place where the parents of a child who's being bullied or harassed don't have the ability to reassure their child that the bully or antagonist is being appropriately punished? Who's idea was this?

It was Congress’s idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because your definition of just and fair may not be the same as the school's. They have more information about the child's situation than you do. It's possible the child was suspended due to repeated offenses. As a parent I don't think suspension really helps so I might think that's "fair." If you're the parent it sounds like you might want something severe like that but if the school instead just gave out a detention you might be creating more trouble for everyone.

It's best that you don't know.

OP here, this I can somewhat understand.

In this instance, I would be fine with lunch detention. The girl threatened and kicked my daughter. But you're right, some parents would want more and you can't leave that kind of decision up to the parents.

Which is why there should be a standard escalation that they can share:

I would expect something like this:

"Since this is the 1st offensive interaction with Mary and your daughter, we're going to pull her aside, call her parents and give her lunch detention. If the behavior persists, we'll then escalate it to in-school suspension, and if that doesn't work, then we'll look at removing her from the classroom."

Doesn't have to be those specific punishments and in that order, but that kind of specific action, escalation path and clarity would give reassurance to my daughter and other kids who are the receiving end of bad behavior at school. She would know and see that the kid who is making school uncomfortable for her won't just get away with it forever.

This will almost NEVER happen. You might be able to request that YOUR child gets moved to a different classroom, but you will not get the other child moved.

This is SO true. And 90% of the time victims are the ones that have to apply for COSA's if the bullying continues. It is such a BS system to hush the issues.

[Anonymous]

OP here, with I guess a happy ending.

After suffering through a few more incidents, and filing an official bullying report, the school officials did finally make the decision to move the bullying girl to another class.

But before they could implement that, her family pulled her out of the school and she no longer goes there. Fine by me, all's well that ends well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, with I guess a happy ending.

After suffering through a few more incidents, and filing an official bullying report, the school officials did finally make the decision to move the bullying girl to another class.

But before they could implement that, her family pulled her out of the school and she no longer goes there. Fine by me, all's well that ends well.

Thanks for the update OP. Glad to hear it's worked out well for your kid!