Why is it MCPS policy to not share discipline measures of other kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not only MCPS. DS's friend was kicked in the head by another boy in 7th grade and sustained a concussion at a much talked about private. DS was with him and so got 'involved' (ie pushed the bully). DS had no idea how it was dealt with and nursed a strong sense of grievance because there was no evidence of justice being meted out. It's not enough for justice to be done but it has to be seen to be done. It doesn't have to be in all its details, just enough so others understand the system will protect them. Otherwise, as pointed out by others, the kids lose respect for the system.

THANKKKKK YOUUU!

Why is this idea so controversial and revolutionary?

Restorative Justice is a joke if it doesn't actually succeed in restoring the victim. Instead, it seems skewed to protecting and defending the kids who act out.

[Anonymous]

There's no point in arguing about whether you *should* get to know the other kid's punishment, because right now federal law prohibits it. Full stop.

But what MCPS (and everyone) needs to do is clearly communicate how they're going to keep OPs kid SAFE. Focus on making them tell you an actual PLAN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is because of privacy issues but I agree that there is some degree to which the privacy is counterproductive. My DD had significant conflict with a boy in her class last year and her perception was that there were no consequences to the boy for his behavior, which just made my DD feel like the school wasn't protecting her. Had they been able to tell her some of what they were doing, she would have at least felt like they were trying.

It is similar to how the school will call to tell you about an incident with another child but not tell you who the other child is. My kids are older now and can tell me, but in most cases by time you get to upper elementary school, the identity of the other child really matters to the context of what happened. If the school isn't going to tell me the full story, don't bother calling me.

OP here. Yes, my daughter basically believes there's no consequence for bad behavior at the school, which is heartbreaking. I asked her why she didn't tell her teacher about the incident, she said "They don't do anything about it."

I'm not expecting the discipline of the offending child to be printed on posterboard and hung in the hallways, but for the two parties involved, the victim and the offender, being transparent about the outcomes and consequences provides closure. Which is very needed for holistic and effective conflict resolution.

Instead, you get hand wavy, "The environment is safe" mumbo jumbo with no specifics that no one, not the kids or the parents, really believe.

OP I say this with the best intentions and no snark: Consider this an opportunity for your daughter to learn about how the world actually operates, as opposed to trying to change your child's immediate environment in a way that is not preparing her for the real world. Talk to her about only being able to control yourself and not others, to use her voice to speak up when she is wronged and take steps to correct. Try to redirect attention away from thinking about retribution/consequences/discipline for others.

Wow. So, if OP's daughter is assaulted, or touched inappropriately in school, this is the main message you want to send?

Sounds like the OP's daughter did use her voice to speak up. The OP is asking, now that her daughter has spoken up, what is going to be done about it? And, what can she tell her daughter is being done about it.

Even if you don't want OP to focus on retribution/consequences, the school should be able to provide a plan going forward as to what will happen the next time such an incident occurs.

PP you are responding to. I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded. As to the first part, you misunderstand what I am saying. That may be because I was unclear- your last sentence helps. It is exactly what I was attempting to say- though not a plan for what will happen to the other child, the next time something occurs. But rather that they are taking steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I think the likely issue is that the school really doesn't have plan. The kid will just have some chats with the counselor, and very likely, do the same thing again - either to the same kid, or to another kid. Just look at all the stories that have come out of MCPS in the past 5 years or so. There is not much an MCPS principal can do. Even when things get really bad, MCPS just moves kids around to other schools or shoves things under the rug - e.g. the Damascus rape case, the Magruder shooter, the Northwest murder (Jai'lyn Jones).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is because of privacy issues but I agree that there is some degree to which the privacy is counterproductive. My DD had significant conflict with a boy in her class last year and her perception was that there were no consequences to the boy for his behavior, which just made my DD feel like the school wasn't protecting her. Had they been able to tell her some of what they were doing, she would have at least felt like they were trying.

It is similar to how the school will call to tell you about an incident with another child but not tell you who the other child is. My kids are older now and can tell me, but in most cases by time you get to upper elementary school, the identity of the other child really matters to the context of what happened. If the school isn't going to tell me the full story, don't bother calling me.

OP here. Yes, my daughter basically believes there's no consequence for bad behavior at the school, which is heartbreaking. I asked her why she didn't tell her teacher about the incident, she said "They don't do anything about it."

I'm not expecting the discipline of the offending child to be printed on posterboard and hung in the hallways, but for the two parties involved, the victim and the offender, being transparent about the outcomes and consequences provides closure. Which is very needed for holistic and effective conflict resolution.

Instead, you get hand wavy, "The environment is safe" mumbo jumbo with no specifics that no one, not the kids or the parents, really believe.

OP I say this with the best intentions and no snark: Consider this an opportunity for your daughter to learn about how the world actually operates, as opposed to trying to change your child's immediate environment in a way that is not preparing her for the real world. Talk to her about only being able to control yourself and not others, to use her voice to speak up when she is wronged and take steps to correct. Try to redirect attention away from thinking about retribution/consequences/discipline for others.

Wow. So, if OP's daughter is assaulted, or touched inappropriately in school, this is the main message you want to send?

Sounds like the OP's daughter did use her voice to speak up. The OP is asking, now that her daughter has spoken up, what is going to be done about it? And, what can she tell her daughter is being done about it.

Even if you don't want OP to focus on retribution/consequences, the school should be able to provide a plan going forward as to what will happen the next time such an incident occurs.

PP you are responding to. I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded. As to the first part, you misunderstand what I am saying. That may be because I was unclear- your last sentence helps. It is exactly what I was attempting to say- though not a plan for what will happen to the other child, the next time something occurs. But rather that they are taking steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I think the likely issue is that the school really doesn't have plan. The kid will just have some chats with the counselor, and very likely, do the same thing again - either to the same kid, or to another kid. Just look at all the stories that have come out of MCPS in the past 5 years or so. There is not much an MCPS principal can do. Even when things get really bad, MCPS just moves kids around to other schools or shoves things under the rug - e.g. the Damascus rape case, the Magruder shooter, the Northwest murder (Jai'lyn Jones).

[Anonymous]

Snitches gets Stiches

[Anonymous]

Probably because MCPS would be embarrassed to admit little to no consequences will be given.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably because MCPS would be embarrassed to admit little to no consequences will be given.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably because MCPS would be embarrassed to admit little to no consequences will be given.

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[Anonymous]

How does notifying about the punishment actually help?

If the perpetrator is expelled, it's obvious even without an official notification.

If the perpetrator is suspended for a week, will that make your kid feel safe a week later?
Either the perpetrator is gone, or personally apologizes and acts different, or they aren't. The relevant info is all plainly visible.

The value of notifying about punishments is more in the deterrent effect to others. But that doesn't need specific incidents attached, only a summary of "incidents reported, categorized by their nature, and consequences"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is because of privacy issues but I agree that there is some degree to which the privacy is counterproductive. My DD had significant conflict with a boy in her class last year and her perception was that there were no consequences to the boy for his behavior, which just made my DD feel like the school wasn't protecting her. Had they been able to tell her some of what they were doing, she would have at least felt like they were trying.

It is similar to how the school will call to tell you about an incident with another child but not tell you who the other child is. My kids are older now and can tell me, but in most cases by time you get to upper elementary school, the identity of the other child really matters to the context of what happened. If the school isn't going to tell me the full story, don't bother calling me.

This situation is one of many that led us to private school.

[Anonymous]

OP here. After a vague response from the teacher on behalf of the admin team who said they were talking with the girl's family and that the teacher would try to keep the offending girl away from my daughter, I found out that the girl punched my daughter in the back during math.

So as I feared, the discipline or whatever consequences MCPS is engaging with the girl and her family are utterly failing and my daughter continues to be a punching bag for this kid who they keep in the classroom. I don't understand why this is acceptable to MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. After a vague response from the teacher on behalf of the admin team who said they were talking with the girl's family and that the teacher would try to keep the offending girl away from my daughter, I found out that the girl punched my daughter in the back during math.

So as I feared, the discipline or whatever consequences MCPS is engaging with the girl and her family are utterly failing and my daughter continues to be a punching bag for this kid who they keep in the classroom. I don't understand why this is acceptable to MCPS.

Ask for a class change. There isn't much they can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. After a vague response from the teacher on behalf of the admin team who said they were talking with the girl's family and that the teacher would try to keep the offending girl away from my daughter, I found out that the girl punched my daughter in the back during math.

So as I feared, the discipline or whatever consequences MCPS is engaging with the girl and her family are utterly failing and my daughter continues to be a punching bag for this kid who they keep in the classroom. I don't understand why this is acceptable to MCPS.

Ask for a class change. There isn't much they can do.

OP here. I should ask to move my daughter? She likes her class and she's with her cousin. They should move the offending kid.

[Anonymous]

Um, it's not "MCPS" policy. It's a federal law, signed into law by Gerald Ford in 1974. The more you know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Educational_Rights_and_Privacy_Act

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is an incredibly common and normal policy. It is also true in the vast majority of workplaces.

If your kid gets in a fight with another child at the playground, is the other parent entitled to demand that you tell them the consequences/punishment you imposed?
If a coworker insults/bullies you in the workplace, are you entitled to know exactly what consequences were imposed?

No. Because the real world doesn't operate that way. It is the responsibility if the organization to create and keep a safe environment. Nobody that was the "victim" needs to know how they do that, just that the environment is safe.

In the real world, if I commit a crime, the punishment is not kept a secret.

Also, I have no idea how you assure the victim the environment is safe without detailing the consequences for those violate the rules of said environment. Why should you believe them?

You said it was a "minor incident." And these are children.