MCPS High School 7:45am for teens is to early

[Anonymous]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25156998/
"The American Academy of Pediatrics strongly supports the efforts of school districts to optimize sleep in students and urges high schools and middle schools to aim for start times that allow students the opportunity to achieve optimal levels of sleep (8.5-9.5 hours) and to improve physical (eg, reduced obesity risk) and mental (eg, lower rates of depression) health, safety (eg, drowsy driving crashes), academic performance, and quality of life."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27040474/
"Insufficient sleep in adolescents has been shown to be associated with a wide variety of adverse outcomes, from poor mental and physical health to behavioral problems and lower academic grades. However, most high school students do not get sufficient sleep. Delaying school start times for adolescents has been proposed as a policy change to address insufficient sleep in this population and potentially to improve students' academic performance, reduce engagement in risk behaviors, and improve health. "

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34073415/
"Survey-weighted multivariate regression modeling was used to investigate associations between school start times, sleep duration, and mental health. Schools with late start times (≥8:30 a.m.) saw 32.2% (95% Confidence Interval: 29.5-35.0) of students sleeping 8 h or more relative to 23.2% (22.0-24.4) in schools with very early start times (<8:00 a.m.). For every 15 min later school start time, students' sleep duration was 4.6 (3.4-5.9) min longer. Students attending schools with very early start times had 1.10 (0.95-1.27) times the odds of attempting suicide compared to those attending schools with later start times, while students at schools with early starts (8:00-8:29 a.m.) were associated with 1.11 (0.98-1.27) times the odds." and "Schools with start times before 8:30 a.m. had 10-11% higher odds of students attempting suicide compared to schools with late start times, though these differences were not statistically significant. Student mental health should continue to be investigated when assessing the potential impacts of delayed school start times. "

But who needs science?

[Anonymous]

The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

If ES started at 7:45 and got out at 2:30, many more thousands of seats in aftercare would be needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

If ES started at 7:45 and got out at 2:30, many more thousands of seats in aftercare would be needed.

Not sure how many times you need to hear this before you get it but school is not your free daycare service. Don’t rely on school before having children. Do research. Make sure you can afford it. I’m a parent and I’m so tired of this… it makes the rest of us look bad. Most of us have shit together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

If ES started at 7:45 and got out at 2:30, many more thousands of seats in aftercare would be needed.

Except HS students provide child care so that wouldn't work if they got out later, younger kids earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

If ES started at 7:45 and got out at 2:30, many more thousands of seats in aftercare would be needed.

Not sure how many times you need to hear this before you get it but school is not your free daycare service. Don’t rely on school before having children. Do research. Make sure you can afford it. I’m a parent and I’m so tired of this… it makes the rest of us look bad. Most of us have shit together.

I think the people arguing that school needs to start later because they can't enforce a bedtime for their children shouldn't be judging other people.

[Anonymous]

The science the above poster posted is compelling. Who is on the Board of MCPS? Do they get this information?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The science the above poster posted is compelling. Who is on the Board of MCPS? Do they get this information?

There is also compelling science that supports the value of athletics, and jobs for teenagers.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it is too early. And the sky is blue. Everyone knows this, but central office won’t change it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The science the above poster posted is compelling. Who is on the Board of MCPS? Do they get this information?

If you review the previous study, MCPS doesn't disagree with the science. The main problem is that switching the order of the bus runs incurs a cost. Collapsing all school start times to the same time would require even more buses and is an even higher cost.

I think some of this cost could be alleviated with increased public bus services with more routes near the MS and HS, including possible extra morning/afternoon "express" lines closer to the school bus routes. If you are passionate about the topic, advocate to the county council. They ultimately control the funding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

If ES started at 7:45 and got out at 2:30, many more thousands of seats in aftercare would be needed.

Not sure how many times you need to hear this before you get it but school is not your free daycare service. Don’t rely on school before having children. Do research. Make sure you can afford it. I’m a parent and I’m so tired of this… it makes the rest of us look bad. Most of us have shit together.

I’m the person you’re responding to. I’m a teacher. I don’t think of my time during the school day as free child care, but I do realize schools provide a safe place for many low income younger children to be during a significant part of their parents’ working hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

If ES started at 7:45 and got out at 2:30, many more thousands of seats in aftercare would be needed.

Not sure how many times you need to hear this before you get it but school is not your free daycare service. Don’t rely on school before having children. Do research. Make sure you can afford it. I’m a parent and I’m so tired of this… it makes the rest of us look bad. Most of us have shit together.

I just do not understand this line of thinking. You either 1) Provide free or affordable aftercare through the school, 2) Only allow people to have children who have flexible jobs and/or can afford a stay at home parent or 3) Force everyone to find a nanny for the hours of 2-5? Which one should a functioning society choose?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

If ES started at 7:45 and got out at 2:30, many more thousands of seats in aftercare would be needed.

Not sure how many times you need to hear this before you get it but school is not your free daycare service. Don’t rely on school before having children. Do research. Make sure you can afford it. I’m a parent and I’m so tired of this… it makes the rest of us look bad. Most of us have shit together.

I just do not understand this line of thinking. You either 1) Provide free or affordable aftercare through the school, 2) Only allow people to have children who have flexible jobs and/or can afford a stay at home parent or 3) Force everyone to find a nanny for the hours of 2-5? Which one should a functioning society choose?

There are not enough after school care seats at most schools so it would be an issue as those after care programs struggle to get staff as its not a full time job someone can life off of. They often hire high school and college students to work them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s fine. They adjust.

No the don’t. Their circadian clock doesn’t adjust.

Mine (who slept til 11:30 today) adjusted fine, as did I as a teenager. Woke up in the dark every morning, even earlier than necessary, to have enough time to do my hair. Not ideal, but we’re all doing just fine.

No, they are tired and yes, it is not ideal. You contradicted yourself bc you know it needs to be later and you admit your kids slept till 11:30. Your time to fo your hair does not correlate to a study in the biology of teen sleep patterns.

I was only pointing out that though her body might want to sleep til 11:30, she does fine when forced to wake up much earlier. She doesn’t get home til nearly 5 pm most days. She’s cheerful and doing well in school. Her phone shuts off at 9 pm, so if yours are having trouble, maybe try that.

My kid isn’t using her phone after 9pm, is getting straight A’s in a magnet program, and has to be out the door by 6:35 to catch her bus. She’s cheerful most hours out of the day…but not from 6-8:00am. By Friday nights she’s a zombie. If we have special weekend plans that prevent her from getting caught up on her sleep, the next week is really tough. She’s physically and mentally healthy, doing well in school, and has a happy social life, but she’s tired. Is the early start time going to break her? No, she’ll survive it like we did. But is it fine? No, it’s not. A later start time would be better. It may not be feasible, but it would be better.

The entire state of CA changed HS start time to 8.30 am or later but MCPS says it is not feasible. Pathetic!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason DCOS can do that is that they do t run school buses. Unfortunately not an option in MoCo unless they switch elementary to start early, which I would support but many other don’t.

If ES started at 7:45 and got out at 2:30, many more thousands of seats in aftercare would be needed.

Except HS students provide child care so that wouldn't work if they got out later, younger kids earlier.

How are other states able to make later start times work?
Montgomery County is not unique. Same problems everywhere but in other places, they adapt and figure things out.