is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to a Big3 school with significant grade deflation. It appears that the kids are not doing well at all with college admits this year. Maybe 5 kids total got EDs so far?
I know multiple kids who were deferred or rejected at University A or B when their peers at less competitive privates and publics were admitted to University A or B.
These are really smart and hard working kids but the school is such that only 1/12 kids in some classes are granted an A.
Is the grade deflation catching up? I just wonder what admissions really thinks when all the applicants from our school have GPAs under 3.8, many quite a bit under.

Am I just worrying too soon in the admissions season or have you noticed this too?
I have an underclassman.

Yep. Big 3 getting ass whooped by public schools.

[Anonymous]

Which Big3 got only 5 ED admits? I am not seeing that on the instagram pages. I saw awesome results from many schools in this area, private and public.
I couldn’t find NCS and STA. I found the other private schools acceptances and they look pretty impressive.
Whitman, Churchill and BCC have many EDs in the top 20. The VA public ones are ok too.
Couldn’t find WJ, Wootton pages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a parent of a senior at one of the big 3. While I wont comment on deflation, I will say that looking at UC system acceptances of kids from DC area private schools vs. DC / Maryland public schools is eye opening. The public high schools have shown higher % acceptance last 2-3 years vs, DMV privates to the UC system (UC has a portal that publishes all of the data by HS).

So I do very much think that some combination of a) deflation and b) lack of APs / having eliminated AP classes and telling kids to not bother with AP testing leads to DC area private school weighted GPAs looking MUCH lower than public high schools where kids can stack on APs and get these weighted GPAs deep in to the 4+ range whereas this would be basically impossible at GDS, Sidwell, Potomac, Maret, St Albans/NCS. Dont get me started on the god-awful stupid advice my Big 3 gave sophomores, juniors and now seniors last 3 years to NOT take AP tests even in the upper level classes that are AP equivalents.

But even putting that aside, UC system doesnt accept the nomenclature that some of the Big 3 use now that AP classes are gone. For instance, an extended or honors course at our HS would not count in UC wGPA as AP level. Only a "upper level" class would count.

For all the talk of equity, these DC private schools shot themselves in the foot with large public state universities by getting rid of AP classes and practicing grade deflation at the same time

These large public universities get 100k+ applications and very clearly have a wGPA screen and in cases like U of M a wGPA plus SAT/ACT screen unless a kid is a recruited athlete or URM.

So for the 3.7-3.9 weighted GPA kid from one of these private schools odds of getting into UCLA, Berkeley, and U of M is probably lower than its ever been b/c the competition from both DC area and in-state public schools are pulling 4.6 wGPAs...

I don't think getting kids into big public Us has every been the goal or strength of elite private high schools, but, I do question where you are getting your information? Can you please provide the data for acceptances by private and public school in the DMV showing that the public schools have a higher acceptance rate to public universities. I am willing to believe this, but, am curious where you get your data. My own thought is that elite public high school students are less likely to attend public universities, so those yield algorithms may be weeding them out.

The long post you quoted literally stated that they’re drawing data from the UC portal that shows admit data by high school, to UC campus.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admissions-source-school

You can see that in 2018, 21 applied from GDS and 8 were admitted, while 20 applied from Walls and 7 were admitted.

But in 2021, 23 applied from GDS and fewer than 3 were admitted, while 20 applied from Walls and 8 were admitted.

The difference is that GDS dropped APs, and Walls did not.

Yield protection. These Cali public schools are all safety schools for the average GDS student and GDS students rarely attend. Colleges catch on eventually and stop giving spots to kids who they know will choose to attend better schools.

No , UC (please don’t refer to CA as Cali) schools do not care about yield protection. UC has a formula and if your private school doesn’t provide AP classes that can hurt. It’s pretty common in CA for smart kids to take several classes at local community colleges during high school or even do self study for AP exams. The public schools don’t always offer as many AP exams.

I think private schools AP dilemma is a catch-22 situation. They don't want to offer them because they don't want to provide another data point of comparison with public schools, but not offering APs, it makes their students not as strong as public kids. They end up relying on their school's name recognition and parents ability to pay full cost.

Maybe a problem, but just for the small minority of kids who want to settle for public universities in Cali.

That's what you get out of that? Oh brother...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a parent of a senior at one of the big 3. While I wont comment on deflation, I will say that looking at UC system acceptances of kids from DC area private schools vs. DC / Maryland public schools is eye opening. The public high schools have shown higher % acceptance last 2-3 years vs, DMV privates to the UC system (UC has a portal that publishes all of the data by HS).

So I do very much think that some combination of a) deflation and b) lack of APs / having eliminated AP classes and telling kids to not bother with AP testing leads to DC area private school weighted GPAs looking MUCH lower than public high schools where kids can stack on APs and get these weighted GPAs deep in to the 4+ range whereas this would be basically impossible at GDS, Sidwell, Potomac, Maret, St Albans/NCS. Dont get me started on the god-awful stupid advice my Big 3 gave sophomores, juniors and now seniors last 3 years to NOT take AP tests even in the upper level classes that are AP equivalents.

But even putting that aside, UC system doesnt accept the nomenclature that some of the Big 3 use now that AP classes are gone. For instance, an extended or honors course at our HS would not count in UC wGPA as AP level. Only a "upper level" class would count.

For all the talk of equity, these DC private schools shot themselves in the foot with large public state universities by getting rid of AP classes and practicing grade deflation at the same time

These large public universities get 100k+ applications and very clearly have a wGPA screen and in cases like U of M a wGPA plus SAT/ACT screen unless a kid is a recruited athlete or URM.

So for the 3.7-3.9 weighted GPA kid from one of these private schools odds of getting into UCLA, Berkeley, and U of M is probably lower than its ever been b/c the competition from both DC area and in-state public schools are pulling 4.6 wGPAs...

I don't think getting kids into big public Us has every been the goal or strength of elite private high schools, but, I do question where you are getting your information? Can you please provide the data for acceptances by private and public school in the DMV showing that the public schools have a higher acceptance rate to public universities. I am willing to believe this, but, am curious where you get your data. My own thought is that elite public high school students are less likely to attend public universities, so those yield algorithms may be weeding them out.

The long post you quoted literally stated that they’re drawing data from the UC portal that shows admit data by high school, to UC campus.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admissions-source-school

You can see that in 2018, 21 applied from GDS and 8 were admitted, while 20 applied from Walls and 7 were admitted.

But in 2021, 23 applied from GDS and fewer than 3 were admitted, while 20 applied from Walls and 8 were admitted.

The difference is that GDS dropped APs, and Walls did not.

Yield protection. These Cali public schools are all safety schools for the average GDS student and GDS students rarely attend. Colleges catch on eventually and stop giving spots to kids who they know will choose to attend better schools.

Yield protection is definitely playing a role. These big public Us are using yield algorithms. Look at the UC data for 2021. Public school kids are more likely to actually enroll (in DC & MoCo).

Since we are only looking at UC data, It’s really impossible to say that anything about public U admissions as a whole.

[Anonymous]

If all these parents are complaining about the thousands of dollars they spend aren’t helping their kids get into a T10-20 easily, move to a public school. You can’t have it both ways. The public schools have a ton of really bright kids that would easily fit in at your Big 3 school except the parents can’t afford it. The complaining your kids somehow deserve something over my kids is extremely conceited and condescending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which Big3 got only 5 ED admits? I am not seeing that on the instagram pages. I saw awesome results from many schools in this area, private and public.
I couldn’t find NCS and STA. I found the other private schools acceptances and they look pretty impressive.
Whitman, Churchill and BCC have many EDs in the top 20. The VA public ones are ok too.
Couldn’t find WJ, Wootton pages.

NCS. They are getting next to nobody in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If all these parents are complaining about the thousands of dollars they spend aren’t helping their kids get into a T10-20 easily, move to a public school. You can’t have it both ways. The public schools have a ton of really bright kids that would easily fit in at your Big 3 school except the parents can’t afford it. The complaining your kids somehow deserve something over my kids is extremely conceited and condescending.

Did you mean to respond to a different thread? This generic complaint about private school parents isn’t relevant here. Who is complaining here about UC admissions practices? Where does it say private school kid A deserves a spot over public school kid B? Do better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If all these parents are complaining about the thousands of dollars they spend aren’t helping their kids get into a T10-20 easily, move to a public school. You can’t have it both ways. The public schools have a ton of really bright kids that would easily fit in at your Big 3 school except the parents can’t afford it. The complaining your kids somehow deserve something over my kids is extremely conceited and condescending.

Did you mean to respond to a different thread? This generic complaint about private school parents isn’t relevant here. Who is complaining here about UC admissions practices? Where does it say private school kid A deserves a spot over public school kid B? Do better

LOL. But you are the one who kept talking about UC yield protection. OP wasn't asking about UC or yield protection.

- np

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If all these parents are complaining about the thousands of dollars they spend aren’t helping their kids get into a T10-20 easily, move to a public school. You can’t have it both ways. The public schools have a ton of really bright kids that would easily fit in at your Big 3 school except the parents can’t afford it. The complaining your kids somehow deserve something over my kids is extremely conceited and condescending.

Did you mean to respond to a different thread? This generic complaint about private school parents isn’t relevant here. Who is complaining here about UC admissions practices? Where does it say private school kid A deserves a spot over public school kid B? Do better

LOL. But you are the one who kept talking about UC yield protection. OP wasn't asking about UC or yield protection.

- np

Then I guess the PP should have directed their anger at those who brought up UC and yield protection rather than launch a screed against parents for doing something no one here did.

-np

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to a Big3 school with significant grade deflation. It appears that the kids are not doing well at all with college admits this year. Maybe 5 kids total got EDs so far?
I know multiple kids who were deferred or rejected at University A or B when their peers at less competitive privates and publics were admitted to University A or B.
These are really smart and hard working kids but the school is such that only 1/12 kids in some classes are granted an A.
Is the grade deflation catching up? I just wonder what admissions really thinks when all the applicants from our school have GPAs under 3.8, many quite a bit under.

Am I just worrying too soon in the admissions season or have you noticed this too?
I have an underclassman.

I think it's too early.

The pattern I have seen this year is that there were many deferrals (and some rejections) in ED across all the private schools (not just Big X but also others). Our DC went to a k-8 so we know kids at a variety of the local school. ALL admits to the most competitive schools ("top 10-15") that we know were legacy. It was even legacy for kids that got into schools more in the 30's with ED admits.

I know only one ED that wasn't a hook and that student had chosen a school significantly lower than others. They love the school, it's a great school but the student was VERY competitive stats-wise for the school. Unlike other EDs we know - this student didn't use ED to try to get into an uber competitive school (albeit still competitive school for others).

From what we've seen, I get the feeling that colleges are moving away from using ED as a way to snag full pay and are waiting for RD to determine those kids. ED seems to be heavily slanted to athletes, legacy, URM this year (I know it has always included those - but this year it seems ONLY those).

When you say “legacy”, do you mean a parent went there and maybe gives a token amount per year or that a parent went there and is spending serious money annually on the school’s alumni push?

I mean child was accepted ED to a college that their parent attended for their undergraduate degree. I don't know anything about anyone's financial contributions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to a Big3 school with significant grade deflation. It appears that the kids are not doing well at all with college admits this year. Maybe 5 kids total got EDs so far?
I know multiple kids who were deferred or rejected at University A or B when their peers at less competitive privates and publics were admitted to University A or B.
These are really smart and hard working kids but the school is such that only 1/12 kids in some classes are granted an A.
Is the grade deflation catching up? I just wonder what admissions really thinks when all the applicants from our school have GPAs under 3.8, many quite a bit under.

Am I just worrying too soon in the admissions season or have you noticed this too?
I have an underclassman.

I think it's too early.

The pattern I have seen this year is that there were many deferrals (and some rejections) in ED across all the private schools (not just Big X but also others). Our DC went to a k-8 so we know kids at a variety of the local school. ALL admits to the most competitive schools ("top 10-15") that we know were legacy. It was even legacy for kids that got into schools more in the 30's with ED admits.

I know only one ED that wasn't a hook and that student had chosen a school significantly lower than others. They love the school, it's a great school but the student was VERY competitive stats-wise for the school. Unlike other EDs we know - this student didn't use ED to try to get into an uber competitive school (albeit still competitive school for others).

From what we've seen, I get the feeling that colleges are moving away from using ED as a way to snag full pay and are waiting for RD to determine those kids. ED seems to be heavily slanted to athletes, legacy, URM this year (I know it has always included those - but this year it seems ONLY those).

I totally agree that it is too early. Frankly, I wish you would have stopped there because the anecdotal evidence you provide - which is different than what I have seen as a parent at a DC private who came from a private elementary - becomes the narrative and it simply doesn't apply universally. You can't draw reliable conclusions from anecdotal data. I could go on but will stop there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Private parent in California. I know comparatively few kids even applying to the UCs any more from private school. It’s been a steep enough decline that apparently the UC admissions people are talking about it quietly as an issue. The reality is that UC does admissions based largely on straight-up GPA and they don’t have the resources to differentiate based on high school profile. Grade inflation is significantly rewarded. That cuts against the applicants from schools that have lower max GPAs.

They have and use resources to compare students against those from their own school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which Big3 got only 5 ED admits? I am not seeing that on the instagram pages. I saw awesome results from many schools in this area, private and public.
I couldn’t find NCS and STA. I found the other private schools acceptances and they look pretty impressive.
Whitman, Churchill and BCC have many EDs in the top 20. The VA public ones are ok too.
Couldn’t find WJ, Wootton pages.

NCS. They are getting next to nobody in.

+2 If I told you the colleges where my NCS student was deferred and rejected from thus far you wouldn’t believe me. NCS is providing an excellent education to my daughter, but the fact that most girls have transcripts filled with Bs and an occasional C is killing their chances in this test optional world. The schools DO NOT CARE that NCS has phased out APs or that my DD has a 33 ACT. It has been a very rough 3 weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which Big3 got only 5 ED admits? I am not seeing that on the instagram pages. I saw awesome results from many schools in this area, private and public.
I couldn’t find NCS and STA. I found the other private schools acceptances and they look pretty impressive.
Whitman, Churchill and BCC have many EDs in the top 20. The VA public ones are ok too.
Couldn’t find WJ, Wootton pages.

NCS. They are getting next to nobody in.

+2 If I told you the colleges where my NCS student was deferred and rejected from thus far you wouldn’t believe me. NCS is providing an excellent education to my daughter, but the fact that most girls have transcripts filled with Bs and an occasional C is killing their chances in this test optional world. The schools DO NOT CARE that NCS has phased out APs or that my DD has a 33 ACT. It has been a very rough 3 weeks.

Do you think we should make a separate thread on this? I don't think the grade deflation is as bad anywhere else and I'm not sure NCS parents in younger grades know how bad it's become and I'm not sure the school cares.
I literally know 5 kids total who were accepted ANYWHERE. Rejections across the board at all schools--including at second and third tier colleges. Forget about top 30 schools. Meanwhile my daughter is in another few classes where the teachers are by design giving a B- as the average grade and a token A- to a cohort of 20 girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which Big3 got only 5 ED admits? I am not seeing that on the instagram pages. I saw awesome results from many schools in this area, private and public.
I couldn’t find NCS and STA. I found the other private schools acceptances and they look pretty impressive.
Whitman, Churchill and BCC have many EDs in the top 20. The VA public ones are ok too.
Couldn’t find WJ, Wootton pages.

NCS. They are getting next to nobody in.

+2 If I told you the colleges where my NCS student was deferred and rejected from thus far you wouldn’t believe me. NCS is providing an excellent education to my daughter, but the fact that most girls have transcripts filled with Bs and an occasional C is killing their chances in this test optional world. The schools DO NOT CARE that NCS has phased out APs or that my DD has a 33 ACT. It has been a very rough 3 weeks.

So in other words, NCS issues true grades like they used to 20-30 years ago.