is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think private parents underestimate how strong public kids can be and there are so many of them with perfect GPA, perfect test score, tons of ECs...etc. Free education doesn't mean they are somehow less qualified than private kids.

I agree - particularly in the DMV which has some of the most educated parents/families in the country. The run of the mill public schools (we are in Virginia) are FILLED with incredibly smart/talented kids. And the ones in the magnet schools are just crazy smart. This area just has a wealth of talent - both in public and private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: There has been a significant discrepancy between top private school GPAs and the rest of the field for a very long time. There is nothing new under the sun. I know folks will say that colleges "understand" that Sidwell or STA grade harder than a public school or another private, but the most competitive colleges will not accept candidates with a lot of Bs and C's on their transcript. Even kids with "athletic" value. Not even if standardized tests are excellent

It’s true. That freshman year learning curve at Sidwell/STA means for some colleges they won’t even look at your application. Yes I have heard they don’t even bother if your gpa is below a certain mark. I believe it. Colleges will suffer the consequences because it takes a lot more to be a successful person in life and they will see many of these Ivy grads are not getting into corporate america still because they are missing many of the other complements that come along with success - personality for one - social graces for two etc….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: There has been a significant discrepancy between top private school GPAs and the rest of the field for a very long time. There is nothing new under the sun. I know folks will say that colleges "understand" that Sidwell or STA grade harder than a public school or another private, but the most competitive colleges will not accept candidates with a lot of Bs and C's on their transcript. Even kids with "athletic" value. Not even if standardized tests are excellent

It’s true. That freshman year learning curve at Sidwell/STA means for some colleges they won’t even look at your application. Yes I have heard they don’t even bother if your gpa is below a certain mark. I believe it. Colleges will suffer the consequences because it takes a lot more to be a successful person in life and they will see many of these Ivy grads are not getting into corporate america still because they are missing many of the other complements that come along with success - personality for one - social graces for two etc….

Yes because the personality of a STA is always head and shoulders over that of a public school kid that got a 4.5. Do you even hear what you’re saying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a parent of a senior at one of the big 3. While I wont comment on deflation, I will say that looking at UC system acceptances of kids from DC area private schools vs. DC / Maryland public schools is eye opening. The public high schools have shown higher % acceptance last 2-3 years vs, DMV privates to the UC system (UC has a portal that publishes all of the data by HS).

So I do very much think that some combination of a) deflation and b) lack of APs / having eliminated AP classes and telling kids to not bother with AP testing leads to DC area private school weighted GPAs looking MUCH lower than public high schools where kids can stack on APs and get these weighted GPAs deep in to the 4+ range whereas this would be basically impossible at GDS, Sidwell, Potomac, Maret, St Albans/NCS. Dont get me started on the god-awful stupid advice my Big 3 gave sophomores, juniors and now seniors last 3 years to NOT take AP tests even in the upper level classes that are AP equivalents.

But even putting that aside, UC system doesnt accept the nomenclature that some of the Big 3 use now that AP classes are gone. For instance, an extended or honors course at our HS would not count in UC wGPA as AP level. Only a "upper level" class would count.

For all the talk of equity, these DC private schools shot themselves in the foot with large public state universities by getting rid of AP classes and practicing grade deflation at the same time

These large public universities get 100k+ applications and very clearly have a wGPA screen and in cases like U of M a wGPA plus SAT/ACT screen unless a kid is a recruited athlete or URM.

So for the 3.7-3.9 weighted GPA kid from one of these private schools odds of getting into UCLA, Berkeley, and U of M is probably lower than its ever been b/c the competition from both DC area and in-state public schools are pulling 4.6 wGPAs...

I don't think getting kids into big public Us has every been the goal or strength of elite private high schools, but, I do question where you are getting your information? Can you please provide the data for acceptances by private and public school in the DMV showing that the public schools have a higher acceptance rate to public universities. I am willing to believe this, but, am curious where you get your data. My own thought is that elite public high school students are less likely to attend public universities, so those yield algorithms may be weeding them out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: There has been a significant discrepancy between top private school GPAs and the rest of the field for a very long time. There is nothing new under the sun. I know folks will say that colleges "understand" that Sidwell or STA grade harder than a public school or another private, but the most competitive colleges will not accept candidates with a lot of Bs and C's on their transcript. Even kids with "athletic" value. Not even if standardized tests are excellent

It’s true. That freshman year learning curve at Sidwell/STA means for some colleges they won’t even look at your application. Yes I have heard they don’t even bother if your gpa is below a certain mark. I believe it. Colleges will suffer the consequences because it takes a lot more to be a successful person in life and they will see many of these Ivy grads are not getting into corporate america still because they are missing many of the other complements that come along with success - personality for one - social graces for two etc….

Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: There has been a significant discrepancy between top private school GPAs and the rest of the field for a very long time. There is nothing new under the sun. I know folks will say that colleges "understand" that Sidwell or STA grade harder than a public school or another private, but the most competitive colleges will not accept candidates with a lot of Bs and C's on their transcript. Even kids with "athletic" value. Not even if standardized tests are excellent

It’s true. That freshman year learning curve at Sidwell/STA means for some colleges they won’t even look at your application. Yes I have heard they don’t even bother if your gpa is below a certain mark. I believe it. Colleges will suffer the consequences because it takes a lot more to be a successful person in life and they will see many of these Ivy grads are not getting into corporate america still because they are missing many of the other complements that come along with success - personality for one - social graces for two etc….

This is satire, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a parent of a senior at one of the big 3. While I wont comment on deflation, I will say that looking at UC system acceptances of kids from DC area private schools vs. DC / Maryland public schools is eye opening. The public high schools have shown higher % acceptance last 2-3 years vs, DMV privates to the UC system (UC has a portal that publishes all of the data by HS).

So I do very much think that some combination of a) deflation and b) lack of APs / having eliminated AP classes and telling kids to not bother with AP testing leads to DC area private school weighted GPAs looking MUCH lower than public high schools where kids can stack on APs and get these weighted GPAs deep in to the 4+ range whereas this would be basically impossible at GDS, Sidwell, Potomac, Maret, St Albans/NCS. Dont get me started on the god-awful stupid advice my Big 3 gave sophomores, juniors and now seniors last 3 years to NOT take AP tests even in the upper level classes that are AP equivalents.

But even putting that aside, UC system doesnt accept the nomenclature that some of the Big 3 use now that AP classes are gone. For instance, an extended or honors course at our HS would not count in UC wGPA as AP level. Only a "upper level" class would count.

For all the talk of equity, these DC private schools shot themselves in the foot with large public state universities by getting rid of AP classes and practicing grade deflation at the same time

These large public universities get 100k+ applications and very clearly have a wGPA screen and in cases like U of M a wGPA plus SAT/ACT screen unless a kid is a recruited athlete or URM.

So for the 3.7-3.9 weighted GPA kid from one of these private schools odds of getting into UCLA, Berkeley, and U of M is probably lower than its ever been b/c the competition from both DC area and in-state public schools are pulling 4.6 wGPAs...

I don't think getting kids into big public Us has every been the goal or strength of elite private high schools, but, I do question where you are getting your information? Can you please provide the data for acceptances by private and public school in the DMV showing that the public schools have a higher acceptance rate to public universities. I am willing to believe this, but, am curious where you get your data. My own thought is that elite public high school students are less likely to attend public universities, so those yield algorithms may be weeding them out.

The long post you quoted literally stated that they’re drawing data from the UC portal that shows admit data by high school, to UC campus.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admissions-source-school

You can see that in 2018, 21 applied from GDS and 8 were admitted, while 20 applied from Walls and 7 were admitted.

But in 2021, 23 applied from GDS and fewer than 3 were admitted, while 20 applied from Walls and 8 were admitted.

The difference is that GDS dropped APs, and Walls did not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Threads like this are baffling. Big 3 parents who spend tens of thousands of dollars a year in tuition really have to come on to this silly website to ask basic questions about how their school’s grading systems impacts college admissions? Seriously? What on earth are you paying all that money for?

Sigh.

Here’s the deal. I’d use all caps and scream it, but that would be rude.

Every high school in America includes a detailed school profile with a student’s transcript. Among other things, the profile explains the grading system. So adcoms know exactly what a 3.5 GPA from your snooty little fancy private school means. Your kids are not being compared with 4.6 GPAs coming out of local publics. Adcoms are smart enough and experienced enough to know how to interpret the transcript of a Big 3 applicant.

My God, people, relax.

I don’t really understand why you need to be so rude, as someone with kids in both private and public. It undercuts your point quite a bit.

It is true that the school profile is sent, but it is also true that some universities and colleges widely trumpet the average incoming GPA and use it for rankings, so while they know the profile, higher GPAs will help at the schools that advertise and rely on incoming GPA. This varies by individual colleges. Also, as someone who used to sit on an admission committee for a highly ranked school, you are simply incorrect that the kids aren’t being compared. They are. But how much the school weights the school profile varies by the college.

Please provide actual proof that this is occurring. You can’t. You’re talking straight out of your uninformed a$$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Threads like this are baffling. Big 3 parents who spend tens of thousands of dollars a year in tuition really have to come on to this silly website to ask basic questions about how their school’s grading systems impacts college admissions? Seriously? What on earth are you paying all that money for?

Sigh.

Here’s the deal. I’d use all caps and scream it, but that would be rude.

Every high school in America includes a detailed school profile with a student’s transcript. Among other things, the profile explains the grading system. So adcoms know exactly what a 3.5 GPA from your snooty little fancy private school means. Your kids are not being compared with 4.6 GPAs coming out of local publics. Adcoms are smart enough and experienced enough to know how to interpret the transcript of a Big 3 applicant.

My God, people, relax.

I don’t really understand why you need to be so rude, as someone with kids in both private and public. It undercuts your point quite a bit.

It is true that the school profile is sent, but it is also true that some universities and colleges widely trumpet the average incoming GPA and use it for rankings, so while they know the profile, higher GPAs will help at the schools that advertise and rely on incoming GPA. This varies by individual colleges. Also, as someone who used to sit on an admission committee for a highly ranked school, you are simply incorrect that the kids aren’t being compared. They are. But how much the school weights the school profile varies by the college.

Please provide actual proof that this is occurring. You can’t. You’re talking straight out of your uninformed a$$.

So rude. There is no point engaging with people who show themselves to be both rude and ignorant at the same time. You’re a hopeless case and not worth the time. Go work in college admissions for four years and come back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think private parents underestimate how strong public kids can be and there are so many of them with perfect GPA, perfect test score, tons of ECs...etc. Free education doesn't mean they are somehow less qualified than private kids.

OP here. No, I don't underestimate this at all. I've had a kid graduate from public school (and another one in public now) and know just how impressive kids from public can be.
This isn't a post comparing the worth of public vs. private school kids when it comes to getting decent college spots.
Please don't turn this into a private vs. public fight because it isn't meant to be that at all.

Simply, I'm just wondering how grade deflation is playing out in admissions at the Big3 in 2023. My kid's school does not give As in many classes. There is crazy grade deflation.
She has been in multiple classes where under 3 As (of any type) are given out of 15 kids. Meanwhile these kids have 1500+ SATs (so they're bright kids). But they can't crack the A level at school.
Anyway, I have another (current kid in public) who has a 4.5 (at last check). Covid was really good for public school GPAs (for most kids). GPAs are higher than ever.
The contrast to the top 3-4 privates is now HUGE.

Also because the admissions results (so far at our school) seem to be really TERRIBLE. They're bad in comparison to other privates (that don't grade deflate as much) and to the top kids in public. So it appears that
admissions officers are taking pass on the Bs and Cs

Sounds like you should take it up with the school/teachers as that is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think private parents underestimate how strong public kids can be and there are so many of them with perfect GPA, perfect test score, tons of ECs...etc. Free education doesn't mean they are somehow less qualified than private kids.

There are brilliant kids in public school. The difference is that private school rewards the brilliant kids with As. It does not reward smart kids with As. The smart kids just get Bs. There are no weighted averages in private schools that can bring a 3.5 up to 4.0. In the top private schools there are few if any AP classes because it is assume that every class carries enough rigor to allow a kid to score on the AP.

This is not a comparison of the best students in public v. best students in private because I agree, that's silly. The very best students in public would probably be among the very best in private. This is a discussion about the kids in the second and third tier.

Most of the privates only take smart kids so they aren't going to give everyone A's or it would look bad for them.

BUT, depending on the situation too, public schools have more advantages, especially when kids can start Algebra/advanced math sooner. I wanted to switch my kid to private in MS, but all the ones I talked to wouldn't or couldn't have kids starting algebra in 6th except if we paid extra/outside class (which we already did every summer).

[Anonymous]

I think the private school kids will be better prepared for the rigor of college overall. They can relax their first year and enjoy the ride.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Threads like this are baffling. Big 3 parents who spend tens of thousands of dollars a year in tuition really have to come on to this silly website to ask basic questions about how their school’s grading systems impacts college admissions? Seriously? What on earth are you paying all that money for?

Sigh.

Here’s the deal. I’d use all caps and scream it, but that would be rude.

Every high school in America includes a detailed school profile with a student’s transcript. Among other things, the profile explains the grading system. So adcoms know exactly what a 3.5 GPA from your snooty little fancy private school means. Your kids are not being compared with 4.6 GPAs coming out of local publics. Adcoms are smart enough and experienced enough to know how to interpret the transcript of a Big 3 applicant.

My God, people, relax.

I don’t really understand why you need to be so rude, as someone with kids in both private and public. It undercuts your point quite a bit.

It is true that the school profile is sent, but it is also true that some universities and colleges widely trumpet the average incoming GPA and use it for rankings, so while they know the profile, higher GPAs will help at the schools that advertise and rely on incoming GPA. This varies by individual colleges. Also, as someone who used to sit on an admission committee for a highly ranked school, you are simply incorrect that the kids aren’t being compared. They are. But how much the school weights the school profile varies by the college.

Please provide actual proof that this is occurring. You can’t. You’re talking straight out of your uninformed a$$.

So rude. There is no point engaging with people who show themselves to be both rude and ignorant at the same time. You’re a hopeless case and not worth the time. Go work in college admissions for four years and come back.

Translation: you can’t provide any actual proof. Yours is just an opinion. You know nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the private school kids will be better prepared for the rigor of college overall. They can relax their first year and enjoy the ride.

Lol not if they’re not getting in they won’t

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Threads like this are baffling. Big 3 parents who spend tens of thousands of dollars a year in tuition really have to come on to this silly website to ask basic questions about how their school’s grading systems impacts college admissions? Seriously? What on earth are you paying all that money for?

Sigh.

Here’s the deal. I’d use all caps and scream it, but that would be rude.

Every high school in America includes a detailed school profile with a student’s transcript. Among other things, the profile explains the grading system. So adcoms know exactly what a 3.5 GPA from your snooty little fancy private school means. Your kids are not being compared with 4.6 GPAs coming out of local publics. Adcoms are smart enough and experienced enough to know how to interpret the transcript of a Big 3 applicant.

My God, people, relax.

I don’t really understand why you need to be so rude, as someone with kids in both private and public. It undercuts your point quite a bit.

It is true that the school profile is sent, but it is also true that some universities and colleges widely trumpet the average incoming GPA and use it for rankings, so while they know the profile, higher GPAs will help at the schools that advertise and rely on incoming GPA. This varies by individual colleges. Also, as someone who used to sit on an admission committee for a highly ranked school, you are simply incorrect that the kids aren’t being compared. They are. But how much the school weights the school profile varies by the college.

Please provide actual proof that this is occurring. You can’t. You’re talking straight out of your uninformed a$$.

So rude. There is no point engaging with people who show themselves to be both rude and ignorant at the same time. You’re a hopeless case and not worth the time. Go work in college admissions for four years and come back.

Translation: you can’t provide any actual proof. Yours is just an opinion. You know nothing.

Sure. You can believe that if it makes you feel better. I don’t really care how you choose to delude yourself. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️