Peer Masking as a Reasonable Accommodation

[Anonymous]

No way this is the end of this story. Will be interesting to see. We couldn’t even get some kids to mask when it WAS state law. Now that it’s not? Should be interesting.

Signed,
A teacher (but not in one of those schools)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the full settlement: https://www.acluva.org/sites/default/files/field_documents/seaman_v._virginia_settlement_agreement_fully_executed.pdf

I can't cut and paste from it, but it makes clear that this is not some kind of right to reinstitute 100% masking based on an unsupported allegation that the child is "immunocompromised" or whatever. Kids in Virginia still have rights NOT to mask - both under Virginia law and the ADA.

Thanks for posting! It's actually very narrow in saying that the plaintiffs can request masking as an accommodation (no guarantee it will be given) and explicitly says that schools also have to accommodate kids who don't want to mask by providing an alternate placement.

Sorry - that's backwards. Why should everyone else have to seek alternative placement rather than the student "requiring" their peers be masked? THAT's the one who needs to seek alternative placement.

Also what happens if no one else in the grade wants their kids to have to mask and they all requests an alternative placement ?

Students with disabilities have certain rights that don’t apply to non-disabled students. A kid with a disability has a right to a reasonable accommodation for their disability.

Sure, but the agreement says that the school has to accommodate requests of other students to transfer if they don't want to mask. So, if enough kids do that . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the full settlement: https://www.acluva.org/sites/default/files/field_documents/seaman_v._virginia_settlement_agreement_fully_executed.pdf

I can't cut and paste from it, but it makes clear that this is not some kind of right to reinstitute 100% masking based on an unsupported allegation that the child is "immunocompromised" or whatever. Kids in Virginia still have rights NOT to mask - both under Virginia law and the ADA.

Thanks for posting! It's actually very narrow in saying that the plaintiffs can request masking as an accommodation (no guarantee it will be given) and explicitly says that schools also have to accommodate kids who don't want to mask by providing an alternate placement.

Sorry - that's backwards. Why should everyone else have to seek alternative placement rather than the student "requiring" their peers be masked? THAT's the one who needs to seek alternative placement.

Also what happens if no one else in the grade wants their kids to have to mask and they all requests an alternative placement ?

Students with disabilities have certain rights that don’t apply to non-disabled students. A kid with a disability has a right to a reasonable accommodation for their disability.

Sure, but the agreement says that the school has to accommodate requests of other students to transfer if they don't want to mask. So, if enough kids do that . . .

Seems like a great way to get out of a disruptive class or away from a bad teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nbc12.com/2022/12/12/aclu-parents-virginia-settle-lawsuit-school-masking-accommodations/

Does this mean what I think it means? That schools can require students to mask as an accommodation for others? What happens when someone filed a counter request for an accommodation that their child has a disability that makes masking difficult (such as social or speech delays)?

Is there a certain illness metric that must be met, or is the school now required to enforce universal masking if one kid makes a claim that they need an accommodation. Why now when COVID numbers are low? Will this apply to fly, RSV, etc.?

This seems like a giant can of worms and I’m sure I’ll get skewered, but I don’t want my young kids back in masks. My almost-5 year old spent nearly half his life in one and hated it. He has delays and it was a nightmare for us to get him to wear it. We are vaxxed and boosted, and masked when mandated, so no, not crazy Trumpers. But I am concerned we are opening the door to this concept of making a whole class of kids be a part of a student’s accommodation.

And FWIW I also don’t think a whole class of kids should be disrupted because one student with an IEP is having a violent meltdown. In general I think accommodations should not extend to altering the behavior of other students in class.

Speech delays have nothing to do with masking. ASD might. It's kinda sad you cannot be considerate to the child who may have health issues who otherwise may not be able to go to school. Being vaccinated and boosted helps your child not others as its not stopping transmission fully. Maybe you should homeschool.

You asset this rather confidently but we really don’t know that speech delays have nothing to do with masking. Masks may not cause delays, but they certainly don’t help them. And kids with autism/sensory issues may not like masking. But no one was worried about those kids during school closures/mask mandates. Even now, COVID is still the cause du jour for a certain segment of society who act as if it’s the only heath issue that matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if a student in your child’s class has cancer, you’re not willing to have your kid mask?

So you’re saying it should be optional, i.e. what I’m willing to do?

To some extent, but it depends. There was news about a school that asked other students to volunteer to be in a masked classroom to accommodate a student with a disability and many volunteered. Lots of different, creative ways to make reasonable accommodations work. Many of you are being very narrow-minded about it.

Voluntary and willing - great and "reasonable accommodation." Not enough willing - not reasonable accommodation.
The key is "reasonable." And "reasonable" is rather subjective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am hearing impaired and use reading of lips as part of my ability to understand people when they speak. The pandemic has made it really, really challenging because I just have no ability to understand when faces are masked.

If the schools do this, I hope they enforce clear masks so those of us with hearing issues aren't left behind.

That would certainly be one way to accommodate multiple students with different needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the full settlement: https://www.acluva.org/sites/default/files/field_documents/seaman_v._virginia_settlement_agreement_fully_executed.pdf

I can't cut and paste from it, but it makes clear that this is not some kind of right to reinstitute 100% masking based on an unsupported allegation that the child is "immunocompromised" or whatever. Kids in Virginia still have rights NOT to mask - both under Virginia law and the ADA.

Thanks for posting! It's actually very narrow in saying that the plaintiffs can request masking as an accommodation (no guarantee it will be given) and explicitly says that schools also have to accommodate kids who don't want to mask by providing an alternate placement.

Sorry - that's backwards. Why should everyone else have to seek alternative placement rather than the student "requiring" their peers be masked? THAT's the one who needs to seek alternative placement.

Also what happens if no one else in the grade wants their kids to have to mask and they all requests an alternative placement ?

Students with disabilities have certain rights that don’t apply to non-disabled students. A kid with a disability has a right to a reasonable accommodation for their disability.

Asking a classroom of other students to do something they and their parents don't want them to is not a reasonable accommodation for the one student.

So, you’ve never had to avoid nut items due to another child’s severe peanut allergy? We’ve had plenty of experience with that.

How can people grow up with kids that have never had to make a sacrifice for others’ health and well-being? Would you have your kids wear a mask in a hospital or nursing home to see a sick or elderly relative?

[Anonymous]

Anyone on this thread that thinks Youngkin did a good thing with the whole mask and vaxed.

Ask him why he sends his kids to school in MARYLAND MASKED AND VAXED!

[Anonymous]

I have had students with cancer before (they are all in remission!). They switched to homebound instruction during much of their chemotherapy, and when they were medically cleared to return to school, they wore masks, but nothing was suggested about other students wearing masks. I can't see it being required in such situations--if a student is ill enough to need everyone around them to be masked, then they are too ill to take a chance on other students not complying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have had students with cancer before (they are all in remission!). They switched to homebound instruction during much of their chemotherapy, and when they were medically cleared to return to school, they wore masks, but nothing was suggested about other students wearing masks. I can't see it being required in such situations--if a student is ill enough to need everyone around them to be masked, then they are too ill to take a chance on other students not complying.

This is the answer, an in actuality families with truly immunocompromised kids will choose this option. The only parents who will try to force all their kids’ classmates to mask are the ones who get annoyed by routine illnesses and think their kid is entitled to never have a runny nose.

I saw a post about masking today in AEM in which someone pointed out our local COVID rates are low, but someone actually responded that it’s also about flu, RSV, and other viruses.

Those of us who claimed last winter that the pro mask mandate people would try to keep us masking for non-COVID illnesses were told we were crazy, yet here we are. I knew there would be a nutty contingent who want masking every year because they don’t want a cold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone on this thread that thinks Youngkin did a good thing with the whole mask and vaxed.

Ask him why he sends his kids to school in MARYLAND MASKED AND VAXED!

This probably would have been more compelling last spring. At this point the masks have been off for months and nothing bad has happened, sooo…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if a student in your child’s class has cancer, you’re not willing to have your kid mask?

Nope. There are home based teaching options if you are that medically fragile.

Yikes. The pandemic really has broken some people, hasn't it?

This was never required before the pandemic. Masking wasn't a thing, even in cases with medically fragile people.

Yes it was. I saw people at work who were going through treatment for cancer and other illnesses masking. We masked to visit my FIL who was sick.

It wasn’t common but it happened.

That said, home bound school exists for a reason. The problem is that it sucks and doesn’t work well. Everyone has been through enough distance learning to understand why home bound is not a good program for kids who are sick. So I get why parents want to avoid it. I don’t know that I would want my kid to wear a mask or that it is reasonable to ask an entire class to wear a mask. There are kids who need to read lips and read expressions and masks hurt that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nbc12.com/2022/12/12/aclu-parents-virginia-settle-lawsuit-school-masking-accommodations/

Does this mean what I think it means? That schools can require students to mask as an accommodation for others? What happens when someone filed a counter request for an accommodation that their child has a disability that makes masking difficult (such as social or speech delays)?

Is there a certain illness metric that must be met, or is the school now required to enforce universal masking if one kid makes a claim that they need an accommodation. Why now when COVID numbers are low? Will this apply to fly, RSV, etc.?

This seems like a giant can of worms and I’m sure I’ll get skewered, but I don’t want my young kids back in masks. My almost-5 year old spent nearly half his life in one and hated it. He has delays and it was a nightmare for us to get him to wear it. We are vaxxed and boosted, and masked when mandated, so no, not crazy Trumpers. But I am concerned we are opening the door to this concept of making a whole class of kids be a part of a student’s accommodation.

And FWIW I also don’t think a whole class of kids should be disrupted because one student with an IEP is having a violent meltdown. In general I think accommodations should not extend to altering the behavior of other students in class.

Tell me you hate kids with disabilities without saying you hate kids with disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if a student in your child’s class has cancer, you’re not willing to have your kid mask?

Nice straw man you've got there.

How is this a straw man? You don't think kids get cancer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, if a student in your child’s class has cancer, you’re not willing to have your kid mask?

My child is deaf. Your child will not wear a mask so my child can read her lips. Cancer student should stay home.

How about your deaf child stays home since she can't hear? See how this works?