October waitlist data is up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is pretty common for charter schools to do marketing and advertising. Some public schools do as well.

How do you even know the money is coming out if the BASIS DC budget? Maybe it is from the BASIS network or a donation.

True. Charter schools do this kind of marketing and advertising all the time.

Here is a metro ad for Friendship Charter in DC:

But they're trying to fill seats. If more people apply, they get more revenue. That's not the case for schools which are never getting through their wait-list.

"Never" has a meaning and you don't understand it. A few short years ago BASIS moved entirely (or almost entirely) through their WL. Schools don't

Do you think BASIS is doing this to fill seats or doing this to diversify/be able to say "we're trying to diversify?" This isn't even a criticism - but I think it's extraordinary unlikely that anyone at BASIS is looking at the numbers and predicting that they are going to have excess capacity. DCPS is only going one direction as far as de-emphasizing tracking and randomizing admissions to selective high schools and there are more UMC kids in EOTP neighborhoods.

BASIS doesn't need to fill seats. They have left people on the waiting list for years now. They are trying to improve the quality of the pool.

Friendship has 14 charter schools in DC, and they definitely need to fill slots. The best Friendship Charter is Tech Prep and even it doesn't get enough lottery applications to fill all its slots for 9th grade.

They're advertising on buses to try to improve the quality of their pool? How is that going to work? You can look at their parcc scores -- the at risk kids do on average worse. The white kids on average do better. If BASIS did zero advertising and actively made it hard to apply so that the only applicants were intense, neurotic UMC parents, that would improve the average quality of their pool. (They should not do this.) Or if they could selectively reach out to ward 7 and 8 kids with high test scores. (Which they can't.) But bus advertising is not doing that.

It's a lottery. If assume an even chance at admission then the more diverse kids are in the lottery pool then the more diverse kids will enroll. Not sure why that concept is so hard for you. The bus in question goes through the heart of the neighborhoods you are asking them to target. And the kids you want them to target take busses.

Get it now?

Ok, so by quality, you did not mean academic performance. You want them to recruit more kids from groups which, when they come to BASIS, have lower test scores and leave at higher rates. That's fine. It's not such an obvious definition of quality, though.

No one who has any idea what they are talking about would suggest BASIS (or any school) advertises to "increase quality". These are pure lottery schools. They are trying to improve their diversity and reach kids from under-represented demos. Kind of offensive that you assume kids from W7 or W8 and/or minority kids will fail out of BASIS. Your logic is that BASIS should admit only kids from W2/3/6 and only those from UMC families?

You lost the thread, lady. Go eat some turkey.

Minority kids have worse parcc scores at BASIS. So do at -risk kids. It would be shocking if they didn't leave at higher rates. This is one of the complaints about the school. And this was a response to a comment which said BASIS was advertising to improve quality. I don't think they should 'just admit ' anyone - it's pure lottery. I think it would be better if they were allowed to be honest about the level of academic performance that is likely to make you successful there. You are not doing kids who are below grade level any favors to admit them and then, predictably, tell them they need to repeat a grade to stay. (And taking those kids means you're not able to take kids who would be successful.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is pretty common for charter schools to do marketing and advertising. Some public schools do as well.

How do you even know the money is coming out if the BASIS DC budget? Maybe it is from the BASIS network or a donation.

True. Charter schools do this kind of marketing and advertising all the time.

Here is a metro ad for Friendship Charter in DC:

But they're trying to fill seats. If more people apply, they get more revenue. That's not the case for schools which are never getting through their wait-list.

"Never" has a meaning and you don't understand it. A few short years ago BASIS moved entirely (or almost entirely) through their WL. Schools don't

Do you think BASIS is doing this to fill seats or doing this to diversify/be able to say "we're trying to diversify?" This isn't even a criticism - but I think it's extraordinary unlikely that anyone at BASIS is looking at the numbers and predicting that they are going to have excess capacity. DCPS is only going one direction as far as de-emphasizing tracking and randomizing admissions to selective high schools and there are more UMC kids in EOTP neighborhoods.

BASIS doesn't need to fill seats. They have left people on the waiting list for years now. They are trying to improve the quality of the pool.

Friendship has 14 charter schools in DC, and they definitely need to fill slots. The best Friendship Charter is Tech Prep and even it doesn't get enough lottery applications to fill all its slots for 9th grade.

They're advertising on buses to try to improve the quality of their pool? How is that going to work? You can look at their parcc scores -- the at risk kids do on average worse. The white kids on average do better. If BASIS did zero advertising and actively made it hard to apply so that the only applicants were intense, neurotic UMC parents, that would improve the average quality of their pool. (They should not do this.) Or if they could selectively reach out to ward 7 and 8 kids with high test scores. (Which they can't.) But bus advertising is not doing that.

It's a lottery. If assume an even chance at admission then the more diverse kids are in the lottery pool then the more diverse kids will enroll. Not sure why that concept is so hard for you. The bus in question goes through the heart of the neighborhoods you are asking them to target. And the kids you want them to target take busses.

Get it now?

Ok, so by quality, you did not mean academic performance. You want them to recruit more kids from groups which, when they come to BASIS, have lower test scores and leave at higher rates. That's fine. It's not such an obvious definition of quality, though.

No one who has any idea what they are talking about would suggest BASIS (or any school) advertises to "increase quality". These are pure lottery schools. They are trying to improve their diversity and reach kids from under-represented demos. Kind of offensive that you assume kids from W7 or W8 and/or minority kids will fail out of BASIS. Your logic is that BASIS should admit only kids from W2/3/6 and only those from UMC families?

You lost the thread, lady. Go eat some turkey.

Minority kids have worse parcc scores at BASIS. So do at -risk kids. It would be shocking if they didn't leave at higher rates. This is one of the complaints about the school. And this was a response to a comment which said BASIS was advertising to improve quality. I don't think they should 'just admit ' anyone - it's pure lottery. I think it would be better if they were allowed to be honest about the level of academic performance that is likely to make you successful there. You are not doing kids who are below grade level any favors to admit them and then, predictably, tell them they need to repeat a grade to stay. (And taking those kids means you're not able to take kids who would be successful.)

In order to get a charter from the DC Charter Board you can’t be selective. If BASIS were, they can’t operate as a charter in DC.

[Anonymous]

BASIS is extremely honest about the rigor there. There is no hiding the ball. Parents should know what they are getting their kids into. I can see how parents might think that even if their kid is not the best student going in that they might rise to the occasion with the right supports and peer group. Unfortunately the lack of good middle school options in DC, however, means some parents send kids to BASIS who don’t stand much of a chance at doing well there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what's misplaced and sad? A US city trying to run an academic powerhouse public middle school/high school without any admissions criteria beyond self-selection and lottery luck. No other major US city does this. We know kids at Latin 1, Latin Cooper, Stuart Hobson, DCI and ITS who would have been leaders of the pack in math and science at BASIS. In New York, Boston, San Fran, Chicago and Dallas these kids could've tested into a STEM magnet program. In DC, some kids who struggle with math wind up at BASIS. Meanwhile, many kids who are bored silly in math in other programs cannot enroll. The system is ridiculous.

THIS. Total BS due to the obnoxious political climate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BASIS is extremely honest about the rigor there. There is no hiding the ball. Parents should know what they are getting their kids into. I can see how parents might think that even if their kid is not the best student going in that they might rise to the occasion with the right supports and peer group. Unfortunately the lack of good middle school options in DC, however, means some parents send kids to BASIS who don’t stand much of a chance at doing well there.

But they're not honest about the quality of instruction. No secret that families of means tend to leave because too many of the teachers aren't great. The best teachers tend to leave after just 2-3 years in search of better pay and working conditions. Rigor without inspired teaching across the board is only so rigorous. My straight-A kid was often bored at BASIS, not for lack of challenge but for lack of excellent teaching. He's much better off at a private with more dynamic, hands-on and personalized instruction. In our experience, BASIS hides the ball on teacher training, support and turnover issues. Just don't look a gift horse in the mouth if you're not prepared to move and can't pay for a private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what's misplaced and sad? A US city trying to run an academic powerhouse public middle school/high school without any admissions criteria beyond self-selection and lottery luck. No other major US city does this. We know kids at Latin 1, Latin Cooper, Stuart Hobson, DCI and ITS who would have been leaders of the pack in math and science at BASIS. In New York, Boston, San Fran, Chicago and Dallas these kids could've tested into a STEM magnet program. In DC, some kids who struggle with math wind up at BASIS. Meanwhile, many kids who are bored silly in math in other programs cannot enroll. The system is ridiculous.

And so we get to the crux of your nonsensical posts and confusion. Your assessment that the way DC does lotteries is "ridiculous" may well be the case. The problem is that you are imputing into the marketing discussion your own views on how BASIS or any other school should be able to market or target kids. That's not how it actually works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is pretty common for charter schools to do marketing and advertising. Some public schools do as well.

How do you even know the money is coming out if the BASIS DC budget? Maybe it is from the BASIS network or a donation.

True. Charter schools do this kind of marketing and advertising all the time.

Here is a metro ad for Friendship Charter in DC:

But they're trying to fill seats. If more people apply, they get more revenue. That's not the case for schools which are never getting through their wait-list.

"Never" has a meaning and you don't understand it. A few short years ago BASIS moved entirely (or almost entirely) through their WL. Schools don't

Do you think BASIS is doing this to fill seats or doing this to diversify/be able to say "we're trying to diversify?" This isn't even a criticism - but I think it's extraordinary unlikely that anyone at BASIS is looking at the numbers and predicting that they are going to have excess capacity. DCPS is only going one direction as far as de-emphasizing tracking and randomizing admissions to selective high schools and there are more UMC kids in EOTP neighborhoods.

BASIS doesn't need to fill seats. They have left people on the waiting list for years now. They are trying to improve the quality of the pool.

Friendship has 14 charter schools in DC, and they definitely need to fill slots. The best Friendship Charter is Tech Prep and even it doesn't get enough lottery applications to fill all its slots for 9th grade.

They're advertising on buses to try to improve the quality of their pool? How is that going to work? You can look at their parcc scores -- the at risk kids do on average worse. The white kids on average do better. If BASIS did zero advertising and actively made it hard to apply so that the only applicants were intense, neurotic UMC parents, that would improve the average quality of their pool. (They should not do this.) Or if they could selectively reach out to ward 7 and 8 kids with high test scores. (Which they can't.) But bus advertising is not doing that.

It's a lottery. If assume an even chance at admission then the more diverse kids are in the lottery pool then the more diverse kids will enroll. Not sure why that concept is so hard for you. The bus in question goes through the heart of the neighborhoods you are asking them to target. And the kids you want them to target take busses.

Get it now?

Ok, so by quality, you did not mean academic performance. You want them to recruit more kids from groups which, when they come to BASIS, have lower test scores and leave at higher rates. That's fine. It's not such an obvious definition of quality, though.

No one who has any idea what they are talking about would suggest BASIS (or any school) advertises to "increase quality". These are pure lottery schools. They are trying to improve their diversity and reach kids from under-represented demos. Kind of offensive that you assume kids from W7 or W8 and/or minority kids will fail out of BASIS. Your logic is that BASIS should admit only kids from W2/3/6 and only those from UMC families?

You lost the thread, lady. Go eat some turkey.

Minority kids have worse parcc scores at BASIS. So do at -risk kids. It would be shocking if they didn't leave at higher rates. This is one of the complaints about the school. And this was a response to a comment which said BASIS was advertising to improve quality. I don't think they should 'just admit ' anyone - it's pure lottery. I think it would be better if they were allowed to be honest about the level of academic performance that is likely to make you successful there. You are not doing kids who are below grade level any favors to admit them and then, predictably, tell them they need to repeat a grade to stay. (And taking those kids means you're not able to take kids who would be successful.)

There are a number of things BASIS could do better. This is not one of them. BASIS is very up front about what it is and how it operates. If you attend any open houses or info sessions or speak with any parents of kids currently attending and you don't understand the rigor then that's on you. The problem with what you are suggesting with regard to admitting kids who "would be successful" is that you restrict the school to admitting mostly UMC kids who come from better ES. Kids who have not had that benefit won't look like they can succeed, but that's because they haven't ben challenged or supported. That's not what BASIS DC is or how any of their free, lottery schools work. As a society we should not be writing kids off in 5th grade.

I reject the notion that at-risk or low SES kids cannot succeed at BASIS (or any other school making significant demands). I also find it kind of offensive that, even if a lot/most of those kids can't succeed (untrue) that we should exclude all of them to protect the ones who cannot. That type of thinking is textbook systemic oppression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BASIS is extremely honest about the rigor there. There is no hiding the ball. Parents should know what they are getting their kids into. I can see how parents might think that even if their kid is not the best student going in that they might rise to the occasion with the right supports and peer group. Unfortunately the lack of good middle school options in DC, however, means some parents send kids to BASIS who don’t stand much of a chance at doing well there.

But they're not honest about the quality of instruction. No secret that families of means tend to leave because too many of the teachers aren't great. The best teachers tend to leave after just 2-3 years in search of better pay and working conditions. Rigor without inspired teaching across the board is only so rigorous. My straight-A kid was often bored at BASIS, not for lack of challenge but for lack of excellent teaching. He's much better off at a private with more dynamic, hands-on and personalized instruction. In our experience, BASIS hides the ball on teacher training, support and turnover issues. Just don't look a gift horse in the mouth if you're not prepared to move and can't pay for a private.

Lots to unpack here. I will start by observing that arguing that your private school is better than BASIS is not the hit you think it is. Kind of falls under the category of "no sh*t Sherlock." The fact that your kid was bored at the most rigorous public MS in DC is not an indictment of BASIS. The fact that private school is "more dynamic, hands-on and personalized" also not a shock. If it wasn't you should demand your money back!

Sounds like your kid is advanced. Good for you. How would your nonspecific "inspired teaching" change that? Are you looking for Robin Williams and Oh Captain My Captain moments? Seems like what you wanted was more advanced material.

BASIS is not perfect. The physical infrastructure is cr*ppy and I think the HoS can be tone deaf to his and BASIS's detriment. But you contribute very little to the discussion by arguing that BASIS isn't as good as your kid's private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what's misplaced and sad? A US city trying to run an academic powerhouse public middle school/high school without any admissions criteria beyond self-selection and lottery luck. No other major US city does this. We know kids at Latin 1, Latin Cooper, Stuart Hobson, DCI and ITS who would have been leaders of the pack in math and science at BASIS. In New York, Boston, San Fran, Chicago and Dallas these kids could've tested into a STEM magnet program. In DC, some kids who struggle with math wind up at BASIS. Meanwhile, many kids who are bored silly in math in other programs cannot enroll. The system is ridiculous.

Either:

1. You don't live in DC, or
2. Your kid didn't get into BASIS in 5th and you are still angry about it.

I'm guessing #2. I would feel the same way. What I don't understand is aiming your ire at BASIS instead of DCPS. BASIS's job is to provide what they do to all comers within the (significant) space constraints in which they operate. DCPS's job is to provide that level of rigor and opportunity to all kids in DC. BASIS didn't fail you, DCPS and Bowser did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BASIS is extremely honest about the rigor there. There is no hiding the ball. Parents should know what they are getting their kids into. I can see how parents might think that even if their kid is not the best student going in that they might rise to the occasion with the right supports and peer group. Unfortunately the lack of good middle school options in DC, however, means some parents send kids to BASIS who don’t stand much of a chance at doing well there.

+100 The problem is not BASIS being too rigorous for some kids. The problem is that there are so few decent MS options that parents are left with bad alternatives; many choose BASIS because their other options are so poor. I said it in response to another poster above; the issue here is not BASIS. The issue is DCPS provides so few decent MS options that families are forced to choose a bad fit (BASIS) for their kids out of desperation. That's not good for the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what's misplaced and sad? A US city trying to run an academic powerhouse public middle school/high school without any admissions criteria beyond self-selection and lottery luck. No other major US city does this. We know kids at Latin 1, Latin Cooper, Stuart Hobson, DCI and ITS who would have been leaders of the pack in math and science at BASIS. In New York, Boston, San Fran, Chicago and Dallas these kids could've tested into a STEM magnet program. In DC, some kids who struggle with math wind up at BASIS. Meanwhile, many kids who are bored silly in math in other programs cannot enroll. The system is ridiculous.

Either:

1. You don't live in DC, or
2. Your kid didn't get into BASIS in 5th and you are still angry about it.

I'm guessing #2. I would feel the same way. What I don't understand is aiming your ire at BASIS instead of DCPS. BASIS's job is to provide what they do to all comers within the (significant) space constraints in which they operate. DCPS's job is to provide that level of rigor and opportunity to all kids in DC. BASIS didn't fail you, DCPS and Bowser did.

I'm not hearing that the PP blamed BASIS. She blamed the system (politicians? DCPS? voters? city council?) Who cares if their kid got into BASIS or not? The argument stands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BASIS is extremely honest about the rigor there. There is no hiding the ball. Parents should know what they are getting their kids into. I can see how parents might think that even if their kid is not the best student going in that they might rise to the occasion with the right supports and peer group. Unfortunately the lack of good middle school options in DC, however, means some parents send kids to BASIS who don’t stand much of a chance at doing well there.

+100 The problem is not BASIS being too rigorous for some kids. The problem is that there are so few decent MS options that parents are left with bad alternatives; many choose BASIS because their other options are so poor. I said it in response to another poster above; the issue here is not BASIS. The issue is DCPS provides so few decent MS options that families are forced to choose a bad fit (BASIS) for their kids out of desperation. That's not good for the kids.

The issue here IS BASIS, but not entirely, not by a long shot. The rigor is overrated outside math + science. The English instruction at BASIS isn't super challenging, and the foreign language instruction is well below par. Kids who are fluent in Spanish wind up taking beginning Spanish in 8th grade. No languages taught from 5th-7th. A school without green space, much natural light or fresh air isn't a "great fit" or "good for" human beings. The desperation part makes sense though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is pretty common for charter schools to do marketing and advertising. Some public schools do as well.

How do you even know the money is coming out if the BASIS DC budget? Maybe it is from the BASIS network or a donation.

True. Charter schools do this kind of marketing and advertising all the time.

Here is a metro ad for Friendship Charter in DC:

But they're trying to fill seats. If more people apply, they get more revenue. That's not the case for schools which are never getting through their wait-list.

"Never" has a meaning and you don't understand it. A few short years ago BASIS moved entirely (or almost entirely) through their WL. Schools don't

Do you think BASIS is doing this to fill seats or doing this to diversify/be able to say "we're trying to diversify?" This isn't even a criticism - but I think it's extraordinary unlikely that anyone at BASIS is looking at the numbers and predicting that they are going to have excess capacity. DCPS is only going one direction as far as de-emphasizing tracking and randomizing admissions to selective high schools and there are more UMC kids in EOTP neighborhoods.

BASIS doesn't need to fill seats. They have left people on the waiting list for years now. They are trying to improve the quality of the pool.

Friendship has 14 charter schools in DC, and they definitely need to fill slots. The best Friendship Charter is Tech Prep and even it doesn't get enough lottery applications to fill all its slots for 9th grade.

They're advertising on buses to try to improve the quality of their pool? How is that going to work? You can look at their parcc scores -- the at risk kids do on average worse. The white kids on average do better. If BASIS did zero advertising and actively made it hard to apply so that the only applicants were intense, neurotic UMC parents, that would improve the average quality of their pool. (They should not do this.) Or if they could selectively reach out to ward 7 and 8 kids with high test scores. (Which they can't.) But bus advertising is not doing that.

It's a lottery. If assume an even chance at admission then the more diverse kids are in the lottery pool then the more diverse kids will enroll. Not sure why that concept is so hard for you. The bus in question goes through the heart of the neighborhoods you are asking them to target. And the kids you want them to target take busses.

Get it now?

Ok, so by quality, you did not mean academic performance. You want them to recruit more kids from groups which, when they come to BASIS, have lower test scores and leave at higher rates. That's fine. It's not such an obvious definition of quality, though.

No one who has any idea what they are talking about would suggest BASIS (or any school) advertises to "increase quality". These are pure lottery schools. They are trying to improve their diversity and reach kids from under-represented demos. Kind of offensive that you assume kids from W7 or W8 and/or minority kids will fail out of BASIS. Your logic is that BASIS should admit only kids from W2/3/6 and only those from UMC families?

You lost the thread, lady. Go eat some turkey.

Minority kids have worse parcc scores at BASIS. So do at -risk kids. It would be shocking if they didn't leave at higher rates. This is one of the complaints about the school. And this was a response to a comment which said BASIS was advertising to improve quality. I don't think they should 'just admit ' anyone - it's pure lottery. I think it would be better if they were allowed to be honest about the level of academic performance that is likely to make you successful there. You are not doing kids who are below grade level any favors to admit them and then, predictably, tell them they need to repeat a grade to stay. (And taking those kids means you're not able to take kids who would be successful.)

There are a number of things BASIS could do better. This is not one of them. BASIS is very up front about what it is and how it operates. If you attend any open houses or info sessions or speak with any parents of kids currently attending and you don't understand the rigor then that's on you. The problem with what you are suggesting with regard to admitting kids who "would be successful" is that you restrict the school to admitting mostly UMC kids who come from better ES. Kids who have not had that benefit won't look like they can succeed, but that's because they haven't ben challenged or supported. That's not what BASIS DC is or how any of their free, lottery schools work. As a society we should not be writing kids off in 5th grade.

I reject the notion that at-risk or low SES kids cannot succeed at BASIS (or any other school making significant demands). I also find it kind of offensive that, even if a lot/most of those kids can't succeed (untrue) that we should exclude all of them to protect the ones who cannot. That type of thinking is textbook systemic oppression.

BASIS has info on how entering students perform based on what their parcc scores are coming in - or they could if they wanted. They are not telling parents "based on previous years, your kid's likelihood of success is very low." I don't think that's their fault - they're not really able to say that. But it would be better for everyone if they were. They are taking kids they know will fail because that's how the lottery works, and they can't tell them this. It's not writing anyone off to say that there's one school in the city you will really struggle at.

[Anonymous]

Since PARCC scores took absolutely forever to be released, BASIS could not have acquired them from a student’s prior school before the school year began. BASIS does its own “baseline readiness” testing that they say is a predictor of how likely the student is to be successful at BASIS. The school also provides progress reports and baseline scores regularly so that families have a chance to do what they can to get their student up to speed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since PARCC scores took absolutely forever to be released, BASIS could not have acquired them from a student’s prior school before the school year began. BASIS does its own “baseline readiness” testing that they say is a predictor of how likely the student is to be successful at BASIS. The school also provides progress reports and baseline scores regularly so that families have a chance to do what they can to get their student up to speed.

Bingo! To paraphrase Tommy Lee Jones from the Fugitive, perhaps poster to whom you responded would care to revise her bullsh*t statement (regarding how BASIS "knows" because of PARCC scores)?

Plus, it perpetuates the idea that if a kid was not previously challenged or given the benefit of outside support, they cannot succeed and we know this because of what happened by March of 4th grade. There's also a white savoir condescension operating here that says that the UMC white folks are going to protect the poor black folk from making the wrong decision about their own kids, because they can't be trusted to go to an open house, attend an info session and do their own research. Thank the lord DCUM is here to make the decision for them.