COGAT Scores

[Anonymous]

VQN total of 102, we better start looking at trade schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Our school AART teacher said the lowest score she saw in the accepted students last year is 142. That seems unrealistic high for me.

She probably mis-spoke and meant to say 132. That number would make sense for a higher-SES school.

I doubt she mis-spoke, there are schools where a 142 would be the norm.

Which is why the test scores have become meaningless and irrelevant. Parents broke them.

I am not so sure parents broke them. My kid goes to a very high SES school (i.e. 1% of kids are free an reduced meals), and he scored right around there. All we did was some practice problems from a $5 workbook. We did not even finish the workbook because it was clear he understood. I really don’t know any of his friends who were going to test prep places and we do lots of car pools for activities, so I am looped into a lot of family schedules. I would not doubt many of his friends also scored that high. They are smart kids. There are just a lot of really smart and accomplished people around here. Intelligence is due both to heredity and environment, the latter of which means so much more than an hour of test prep. Kids in this school have a lot going for them without a lot of prep.

I am glad America will have these future leaders. Why is that a bad thing? We should celebrate their emerging capacity.

To sum: The lies we tell ourselves to justify prepping for aptitude tests.

Eh, I can fully buy that there are kids who score high with the workbooks and no prep classes. Kids whose parents have been reading to them and finding ways for them to practice math are in a better place for the CoGAT, regardless of prep. We know that higher SES families are more likely to have been reading to kids and practicing math. I know that there are parents who send their kids to prep classes but not every high score is a prep class. The work books are effective and less expensive.

I don’t buy the CoGAT as an IQ test because it is too easily influenced.

The CogAT flat out isn't an IQ test. It's an aptitude test that is somewhat correlated with IQ. The authors of the CogAT acknowledge that it's vulnerable to prepping and that prepping can inflate scores by about 15 points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school AART teacher said the lowest score she saw in the accepted students last year is 142. That seems unrealistic high for me.

She probably mis-spoke and meant to say 132. That number would make sense for a higher-SES school.

I doubt she mis-spoke, there are schools where a 142 would be the norm.

Which is why the test scores have become meaningless and irrelevant. Parents broke them.

I am not so sure parents broke them. My kid goes to a very high SES school (i.e. 1% of kids are free an reduced meals), and he scored right around there. All we did was some practice problems from a $5 workbook. We did not even finish the workbook because it was clear he understood. I really don’t know any of his friends who were going to test prep places and we do lots of car pools for activities, so I am looped into a lot of family schedules. I would not doubt many of his friends also scored that high. They are smart kids. There are just a lot of really smart and accomplished people around here. Intelligence is due both to heredity and environment, the latter of which means so much more than an hour of test prep. Kids in this school have a lot going for them without a lot of prep.

I am glad America will have these future leaders. Why is that a bad thing? We should celebrate their emerging capacity.

Buying a workbook and practicing questions is prep. When the teacher went over a sample question the day before the test, my child said most of the class reported that they’ve been studying those questions at home. I am anti-prep and my kid’s score was within the past in-pool cutoff from previous years but it will not be high enough for in-pool at this prep obsessed school. It doesn’t matter bc the scores have dropped in weight for consideration since they can’t be trusted anymore. now it’s in the hands of teachers who arbitrarily assess giftedness among a class of 25+ kids. Once upon a time the scores meant something and the guidelines for AAP acceptance were more clear-cut. Now it’s just a crapshoot who gets in and who doesn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school AART teacher said the lowest score she saw in the accepted students last year is 142. That seems unrealistic high for me.

She probably mis-spoke and meant to say 132. That number would make sense for a higher-SES school.

I doubt she mis-spoke, there are schools where a 142 would be the norm.

Which is why the test scores have become meaningless and irrelevant. Parents broke them.

I am not so sure parents broke them. My kid goes to a very high SES school (i.e. 1% of kids are free an reduced meals), and he scored right around there. All we did was some practice problems from a $5 workbook. We did not even finish the workbook because it was clear he understood. I really don’t know any of his friends who were going to test prep places and we do lots of car pools for activities, so I am looped into a lot of family schedules. I would not doubt many of his friends also scored that high. They are smart kids. There are just a lot of really smart and accomplished people around here. Intelligence is due both to heredity and environment, the latter of which means so much more than an hour of test prep. Kids in this school have a lot going for them without a lot of prep.

I am glad America will have these future leaders. Why is that a bad thing? We should celebrate their emerging capacity.

Buying a workbook and practicing questions is prep. When the teacher went over a sample question the day before the test, my child said most of the class reported that they’ve been studying those questions at home. I am anti-prep and my kid’s score was within the past in-pool cutoff from previous years but it will not be high enough for in-pool at this prep obsessed school. It doesn’t matter bc the scores have dropped in weight for consideration since they can’t be trusted anymore. now it’s in the hands of teachers who arbitrarily assess giftedness among a class of 25+ kids. Once upon a time the scores meant something and the guidelines for AAP acceptance were more clear-cut. Now it’s just a crapshoot who gets in and who doesn’t.

Unless you work for Your kid’s school and have seen the distribution, there is no way you would know if the score is above or below the cut-off. That is not public knowledge at this point. You are being hyperbolic because you misplaced your principles on your decision not to go over some workbook questions. The fact that you are in a school with so many well-prepared kids means you chose to live in a high performing school zone and pay extra for your house. You have been playing the game already. Commit to excellence all the way or get out of the game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school AART teacher said the lowest score she saw in the accepted students last year is 142. That seems unrealistic high for me.

She probably mis-spoke and meant to say 132. That number would make sense for a higher-SES school.

I doubt she mis-spoke, there are schools where a 142 would be the norm.

Which is why the test scores have become meaningless and irrelevant. Parents broke them.

I am not so sure parents broke them. My kid goes to a very high SES school (i.e. 1% of kids are free an reduced meals), and he scored right around there. All we did was some practice problems from a $5 workbook. We did not even finish the workbook because it was clear he understood. I really don’t know any of his friends who were going to test prep places and we do lots of car pools for activities, so I am looped into a lot of family schedules. I would not doubt many of his friends also scored that high. They are smart kids. There are just a lot of really smart and accomplished people around here. Intelligence is due both to heredity and environment, the latter of which means so much more than an hour of test prep. Kids in this school have a lot going for them without a lot of prep.

I am glad America will have these future leaders. Why is that a bad thing? We should celebrate their emerging capacity.

To sum: The lies we tell ourselves to justify prepping for aptitude tests.

Eh, I can fully buy that there are kids who score high with the workbooks and no prep classes. Kids whose parents have been reading to them and finding ways for them to practice math are in a better place for the CoGAT, regardless of prep. We know that higher SES families are more likely to have been reading to kids and practicing math. I know that there are parents who send their kids to prep classes but not every high score is a prep class. The work books are effective and less expensive.

I don’t buy the CoGAT as an IQ test because it is too easily influenced.

This. The CogAT is an achievement test, not an IQ test. It's scaled like an IQ test and there's a correlation between CogAT and WISC scores, but kids in higher-performing schools who've had more enrichment at home will score better, even without actual prep. FCPS absolutely did the right thing by establishing local norms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:VQN total of 102, we better start looking at trade schools.

111 over here. I think my child is just not a great test-taker. Verbal was her lowest score at barely over 100 but she’s such a strong reader and writer. I’m just hoping she gets high ratings on the GBRS.

[Anonymous]

My son said one of his friends picked “C” for everything because the test was boring and he wanted to be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school AART teacher said the lowest score she saw in the accepted students last year is 142. That seems unrealistic high for me.

She probably mis-spoke and meant to say 132. That number would make sense for a higher-SES school.

I doubt she mis-spoke, there are schools where a 142 would be the norm.

Which is why the test scores have become meaningless and irrelevant. Parents broke them.

I am not so sure parents broke them. My kid goes to a very high SES school (i.e. 1% of kids are free an reduced meals), and he scored right around there. All we did was some practice problems from a $5 workbook. We did not even finish the workbook because it was clear he understood. I really don’t know any of his friends who were going to test prep places and we do lots of car pools for activities, so I am looped into a lot of family schedules. I would not doubt many of his friends also scored that high. They are smart kids. There are just a lot of really smart and accomplished people around here. Intelligence is due both to heredity and environment, the latter of which means so much more than an hour of test prep. Kids in this school have a lot going for them without a lot of prep.

I am glad America will have these future leaders. Why is that a bad thing? We should celebrate their emerging capacity.

To sum: The lies we tell ourselves to justify prepping for aptitude tests.

Eh, I can fully buy that there are kids who score high with the workbooks and no prep classes. Kids whose parents have been reading to them and finding ways for them to practice math are in a better place for the CoGAT, regardless of prep. We know that higher SES families are more likely to have been reading to kids and practicing math. I know that there are parents who send their kids to prep classes but not every high score is a prep class. The work books are effective and less expensive.

I don’t buy the CoGAT as an IQ test because it is too easily influenced.

This. The CogAT is an achievement test, not an IQ test. It's scaled like an IQ test and there's a correlation between CogAT and WISC scores, but kids in higher-performing schools who've had more enrichment at home will score better, even without actual prep. FCPS absolutely did the right thing by establishing local norms.

I hate to tell you guys but did I an NNAT and COGAT prep books myself, as an adult, and these most certainly ARE IQ tests. There is not just a correlation - it is an extremely extremely high correlation. HAve you never taken an IQ test to not know that the problems they give you are the exact same problems?! https://www.hmhco.com/~/media/sites/home/hmh-assessments/assessments/cogat/pdf/cogat-cognitively-speaking-v6-winter-2008.pdf?la=en

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VQN total of 102, we better start looking at trade schools.

111 over here. I think my child is just not a great test-taker. Verbal was her lowest score at barely over 100 but she’s such a strong reader and writer. I’m just hoping she gets high ratings on the GBRS.

Same. Verbal super low. I wonder if the kids understood it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school AART teacher said the lowest score she saw in the accepted students last year is 142. That seems unrealistic high for me.

She probably mis-spoke and meant to say 132. That number would make sense for a higher-SES school.

I doubt she mis-spoke, there are schools where a 142 would be the norm.

Which is why the test scores have become meaningless and irrelevant. Parents broke them.

I am not so sure parents broke them. My kid goes to a very high SES school (i.e. 1% of kids are free an reduced meals), and he scored right around there. All we did was some practice problems from a $5 workbook. We did not even finish the workbook because it was clear he understood. I really don’t know any of his friends who were going to test prep places and we do lots of car pools for activities, so I am looped into a lot of family schedules. I would not doubt many of his friends also scored that high. They are smart kids. There are just a lot of really smart and accomplished people around here. Intelligence is due both to heredity and environment, the latter of which means so much more than an hour of test prep. Kids in this school have a lot going for them without a lot of prep.

I am glad America will have these future leaders. Why is that a bad thing? We should celebrate their emerging capacity.

To sum: The lies we tell ourselves to justify prepping for aptitude tests.

Eh, I can fully buy that there are kids who score high with the workbooks and no prep classes. Kids whose parents have been reading to them and finding ways for them to practice math are in a better place for the CoGAT, regardless of prep. We know that higher SES families are more likely to have been reading to kids and practicing math. I know that there are parents who send their kids to prep classes but not every high score is a prep class. The work books are effective and less expensive.

I don’t buy the CoGAT as an IQ test because it is too easily influenced.

This. The CogAT is an achievement test, not an IQ test. It's scaled like an IQ test and there's a correlation between CogAT and WISC scores, but kids in higher-performing schools who've had more enrichment at home will score better, even without actual prep. FCPS absolutely did the right thing by establishing local norms.

I hate to tell you guys but did I an NNAT and COGAT prep books myself, as an adult, and these most certainly ARE IQ tests. There is not just a correlation - it is an extremely extremely high correlation. HAve you never taken an IQ test to not know that the problems they give you are the exact same problems?! https://www.hmhco.com/~/media/sites/home/hmh-assessments/assessments/cogat/pdf/cogat-cognitively-speaking-v6-winter-2008.pdf?la=en

I hate to tell you this, but you're flat out wrong. The CogAT is absolutely not an IQ test. A simple google search for "Is the CogAT an IQ test will turn up numerous sites that explicitly state that it is not.

There is some similarity between CogAT problems and IQ problems. The CogAT certainly doesn't assess enough domains and isn't thorough enough to give an IQ. At best, it would be the cliff notes version of an IQ test, but it really isn't even that.

[Anonymous]

My daughter scored so well in NNAT but very low in CogAt NV section. I don't understand. They seems to be pretty similar. Is NNAT still relevant at this point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter scored so well in NNAT but very low in CogAt NV section. I don't understand. They seems to be pretty similar. Is NNAT still relevant at this point?

The NNAT and CogAT non-verbal are probably the least important sections for AAP admissions. My kid was similar but reversed--low NNAT, high CogAT NV--and is now at the center (admitted first round). If the quant and verbal scores are good, I wouldn't worry.

[Anonymous]

Experienced parent here. My child is in AAP and didn’t get into it until grade 5. High SES area with insane competition. Perfect GBRS’s. In Pool Cogat, 99’th percent WISC (taken a few years ago when it may have counted) and almost all 4s. Level 3, and Advanced Math. Still took 2 years to get in. So it all depends on your school, area, level of competition. There is no key. “Great GBRS! Awesome scores!” All a crap shoot. Good luck to all, though! And remember, smart kids are smart wherever they go!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter scored so well in NNAT but very low in CogAt NV section. I don't understand. They seems to be pretty similar. Is NNAT still relevant at this point?

The NNAT and CogAT non-verbal are probably the least important sections for AAP admissions. My kid was similar but reversed--low NNAT, high CogAT NV--and is now at the center (admitted first round). If the quant and verbal scores are good, I wouldn't worry.

What is a good verbal score?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Experienced parent here. My child is in AAP and didn’t get into it until grade 5. High SES area with insane competition. Perfect GBRS’s. In Pool Cogat, 99’th percent WISC (taken a few years ago when it may have counted) and almost all 4s. Level 3, and Advanced Math. Still took 2 years to get in. So it all depends on your school, area, level of competition. There is no key. “Great GBRS! Awesome scores!” All a crap shoot. Good luck to all, though! And remember, smart kids are smart wherever they go!

Good point about the area you apply from. The ES can make a huge difference.