COGAT Scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VQN 131 and NNAT 160. Any chance?

I would think there is a good chance based on that NNAT score.

The NNAT is barely considered at this point. The last evaluation of the AAP application process found that the NNAT carried no weight in the actual decision to include a student in AAP or not. The CogAT was nire important and GBRS were the most important. The NNAT score will help the child be in-pool and that is about it. The 131 CogAT score is close to the 132 threhold that was the "gold standard" a few years back for being in-pool and is probably more important. A high NNAT followed by a drop in the CogAT probably points to a kid who guessed well on the NNAT with the CogAT being more reflective of the child's ability. Just like a lower NNAT with a 15-20 point bump points to a child who was most likely prepped for the CogAT. In this case, the CogAT is still high, 97th or 98th percentile I think, and on the cusp of being in-pool in the past. I don't think the discrepancy will be a big deal.

The poster who metioned the Quant score is pretty on point. The committee is looking for kids who can handle the LA and the Advanced Math. Take a look at the thread where parents are asking about their kids struggling with the math in third grade. The math is accelerated in AAP and jumps a full grade level in 5th grade. The committee wants to make sure that kids are able to handle that jump so the Quant score is important. There are plenty of parents on this board who will say that the math in AAP is too slow but they tend to be the overall outliers. A good number of kids find the math challenging and some struggle with it. Finding a kid who is strong in LA but who will not be overwhelmed with the math in important. It is part of the reason why some of us think that FCPS needs and Advanced LA and Advanced Math distinction, so the kids who are strong in one of the areas has a good fit for them. Right now it feels like there is a push to jam kids who are strong in LA into LIV even if they don't have the math chops because the LA and Social Studies component of Gen Ed is too slow.


I know it is off topic but the ideal, for me, would be Advanced Math and Advanced LA. Kids who qualify for both are accepted into LIV, otherwise they attend the Advanced program in their strength. There would be fewer LIV kids but the program would be more flexible and meet more kids needs.

I'm new to this, but isn't this why we have Level III? My kid's teacher talked about recommending my son for advanced math but not going for full Level IV because the advanced LA might be too much.

Level III is once a week for an hour at schools that actually prioritize Level III services. A good number of schools do not prioritize Level III services so it rarely happens or for only 30 minutes at a time. Advanced Math is a specific program that is 5 days a week during math. It has a set curriculum and leads to kids skipping to sixth grade math in fifth grade. Advanced LA, in my ideal and totally fictional world, would work like Advanced Math. It would be 5 days a week and have a set curriculum that would allow kids who are ahead in reading and writing to continue at a pace that makes sense for them. That does not happen at this time.

I'm the PP. Thanks for this explanation. And here I was thinking it couldn't get more complicated. :-/ How do kids get selected for Advanced Math, if it's not the same as Level III? Our teacher is new to 2nd grade so she's learning some of these things as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VQN 131 and NNAT 160. Any chance?

I would think there is a good chance based on that NNAT score.

The NNAT is barely considered at this point. The last evaluation of the AAP application process found that the NNAT carried no weight in the actual decision to include a student in AAP or not. The CogAT was nire important and GBRS were the most important. The NNAT score will help the child be in-pool and that is about it. The 131 CogAT score is close to the 132 threhold that was the "gold standard" a few years back for being in-pool and is probably more important. A high NNAT followed by a drop in the CogAT probably points to a kid who guessed well on the NNAT with the CogAT being more reflective of the child's ability. Just like a lower NNAT with a 15-20 point bump points to a child who was most likely prepped for the CogAT. In this case, the CogAT is still high, 97th or 98th percentile I think, and on the cusp of being in-pool in the past. I don't think the discrepancy will be a big deal.

The poster who metioned the Quant score is pretty on point. The committee is looking for kids who can handle the LA and the Advanced Math. Take a look at the thread where parents are asking about their kids struggling with the math in third grade. The math is accelerated in AAP and jumps a full grade level in 5th grade. The committee wants to make sure that kids are able to handle that jump so the Quant score is important. There are plenty of parents on this board who will say that the math in AAP is too slow but they tend to be the overall outliers. A good number of kids find the math challenging and some struggle with it. Finding a kid who is strong in LA but who will not be overwhelmed with the math in important. It is part of the reason why some of us think that FCPS needs and Advanced LA and Advanced Math distinction, so the kids who are strong in one of the areas has a good fit for them. Right now it feels like there is a push to jam kids who are strong in LA into LIV even if they don't have the math chops because the LA and Social Studies component of Gen Ed is too slow.


I know it is off topic but the ideal, for me, would be Advanced Math and Advanced LA. Kids who qualify for both are accepted into LIV, otherwise they attend the Advanced program in their strength. There would be fewer LIV kids but the program would be more flexible and meet more kids needs.

I'm new to this, but isn't this why we have Level III? My kid's teacher talked about recommending my son for advanced math but not going for full Level IV because the advanced LA might be too much.

Level III is once a week for an hour at schools that actually prioritize Level III services. A good number of schools do not prioritize Level III services so it rarely happens or for only 30 minutes at a time. Advanced Math is a specific program that is 5 days a week during math. It has a set curriculum and leads to kids skipping to sixth grade math in fifth grade. Advanced LA, in my ideal and totally fictional world, would work like Advanced Math. It would be 5 days a week and have a set curriculum that would allow kids who are ahead in reading and writing to continue at a pace that makes sense for them. That does not happen at this time.

I'm the PP. Thanks for this explanation. And here I was thinking it couldn't get more complicated. :-/ How do kids get selected for Advanced Math, if it's not the same as Level III? Our teacher is new to 2nd grade so she's learning some of these things as well.

Advanced Math is determined by each school. Many of the Teachers have reported that their schools look for high iReady scores, Level II math pullouts before third grade, high math scores on report cards, and passing advanced on the SOL (after third grade). Advanced Math is the math curriculum used in the LIV classrooms. In third grade the kids learn grade three and some grade four concepts. In fourth grade the kids complete grade four and grade five curriculum. that sets them up for jumping into sixth grade math in fifth grade.

Not all schools start Advanced Math in third grade, some wait until fifth grade. I believe that kids who are identified for Advanced Math at Center schools may join the LIV class during the math period but I don't know if that happens at every Center school.

Level III is more a critical thinking and learning extension then a LA program. My son enjoys it but he has classmates who were in Level III but stopped attending because they were struggling to make up the missed material from the classroom when they were pulled for Level III.

[Anonymous]

Advanced math is determined in the first month of the new school year. All Level IV kids automatically get advanced math.

Other Kids are given assessment tests to see how they fare on end of year skills (so at start of third, they want to see how you'd do on what they expect kids to know by end of third grade). The local principal looks at those scores, plus prior year math grades, COGAT quant score and Iready math scores and comes up with a decision that doesn't have a firm cutoff nor is it publicized. Those kids join Level IV kids in advanced math.

In our school, this resulted in 3 out of 85 non-level IV kids being moved into advanced math. In other words, the bar is very high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Advanced math is determined in the first month of the new school year. All Level IV kids automatically get advanced math.

Other Kids are given assessment tests to see how they fare on end of year skills (so at start of third, they want to see how you'd do on what they expect kids to know by end of third grade). The local principal looks at those scores, plus prior year math grades, COGAT quant score and Iready math scores and comes up with a decision that doesn't have a firm cutoff nor is it publicized. Those kids join Level IV kids in advanced math.

In our school, this resulted in 3 out of 85 non-level IV kids being moved into advanced math. In other words, the bar is very high.

That depends on the school. We got Advanced Math notifications in the spring. Parents had to be contacted in advance because Advanced Math plays a roll in how the classes for each grade level are set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Advanced math is determined in the first month of the new school year. All Level IV kids automatically get advanced math.

Other Kids are given assessment tests to see how they fare on end of year skills (so at start of third, they want to see how you'd do on what they expect kids to know by end of third grade). The local principal looks at those scores, plus prior year math grades, COGAT quant score and Iready math scores and comes up with a decision that doesn't have a firm cutoff nor is it publicized. Those kids join Level IV kids in advanced math.

In our school, this resulted in 3 out of 85 non-level IV kids being moved into advanced math. In other words, the bar is very high.

This isn't necessarily true for every school. If a given year's Advanced Math class is small, the principal may want more students to fill it out and apply a more liberal standard.

FYI, the FCPS website links to an application form (see below) but it's not clear that all schools require it. Many kids are placed automatically based on the criteria PP mentioned above. Double check with your AART to verify the exact process.

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/academic-overview/advanced-academic-programs-aap/advanced-academic-program-aap-forms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s extremely difficult to comment on chances for admission without knowing the school. I can understand not wanting to mention your school by name but you at least need to identify as high-SES, mid-tier, or Title One.

Perhaps a weird question: how do you find out the SES of the school? Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s extremely difficult to comment on chances for admission without knowing the school. I can understand not wanting to mention your school by name but you at least need to identify as high-SES, mid-tier, or Title One.

Perhaps a weird question: how do you find out the SES of the school? Thanks!

There is a list of Title 1 schools and after that it is mainly the income of the area the school draws from.

Most folks have a good idea of what the average income in there neighborhood is. Mine is a mix of two working parents and SAHP. Average houses are between $650,000-$850,000, most are owned with only a few rentals. Under 10% FARMs rating at the school so I call it MC to UMC. I know some families are scrapping by to live in the neighborhood and a good number are comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In our school, this resulted in 3 out of 85 non-level IV kids being moved into advanced math. In other words, the bar is very high.

That is atypical, and your school is using a much higher bar than is required by the county. FCPS is okay with letting into advanced math any kid who scores around a 115 CogAT Q and who scores reasonably well on the beginning/end of year tests. My school had around 25 out of 150 kids leave for the AAP center, and they still had another 25 out of the remaining 125 kids placed in advanced math. This school was even Title I. The bar is not supposed to be that high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s extremely difficult to comment on chances for admission without knowing the school. I can understand not wanting to mention your school by name but you at least need to identify as high-SES, mid-tier, or Title One.

Perhaps a weird question: how do you find out the SES of the school? Thanks!

Pretty much every elementary in the Langley and McLean districts (with the exception of Timber Lane) will be high SES.

Elementaries that feed schools like Lake Braddock and West Springfield are likely to be mid-tier.

Does your school offer free breakfast or free lunch for all students this year? If so, it’s definitely Title I.

[Anonymous]

Again, everyone…Just saying… You can have crazy high scores and end up astonished that your kid did NOT get in. If you are in a very high income area, and also a more renowned CENTER school, it’s much more competitive. My kid didn’t get in until 5th. But on the other hand, level III and advanced math was good too! But yes, was too easy for him. He didn’t complain…I mean, more time to chill and play video games, sports, etc right?? But he breezed through everything. This is the first time I have seen him enjoying his school work (and not just enjoying his friends at school) and being more challenged. He really likes the extra challenge and is doing fantastic with the same grades he got before AAP (mostly 4s.) So i guess it was a good thing for him. But again, I was shocked when he didn’t get in for two years despite the great scores, GBRS etc. Last year, i had zero expectation and just applied on a whim like “why not, right? WIll likely get rejected again” but got in. So please parents, do NOT be disheartened if your kid doesn’t get in. I know many of my child’s very smart friends who did not get in and are great in level III and advanced math. It’s honestly not going to matter a whole lot unless you REALLY want to go to TJ eventually. I would say try your best for advanced math, though. Math is important if you reapply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s extremely difficult to comment on chances for admission without knowing the school. I can understand not wanting to mention your school by name but you at least need to identify as high-SES, mid-tier, or Title One.

Perhaps a weird question: how do you find out the SES of the school? Thanks!

Pretty much every elementary in the Langley and McLean districts (with the exception of Timber Lane) will be high SES.

Elementaries that feed schools like Lake Braddock and West Springfield are likely to be mid-tier.

Does your school offer free breakfast or free lunch for all students this year? If so, it’s definitely Title I.

Very helpful, thank you. No free lunch this year, but they did last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s extremely difficult to comment on chances for admission without knowing the school. I can understand not wanting to mention your school by name but you at least need to identify as high-SES, mid-tier, or Title One.

Perhaps a weird question: how do you find out the SES of the school? Thanks!

Pretty much every elementary in the Langley and McLean districts (with the exception of Timber Lane) will be high SES.

Elementaries that feed schools like Lake Braddock and West Springfield are likely to be mid-tier.

Does your school offer free breakfast or free lunch for all students this year? If so, it’s definitely Title I.

Very helpful, thank you. No free lunch this year, but they did last year.

All schools had free lunch last year for all students. It was a Covid thing. Look on the great schools website and you will see how many kids qualify for free an reduced meals at your school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s extremely difficult to comment on chances for admission without knowing the school. I can understand not wanting to mention your school by name but you at least need to identify as high-SES, mid-tier, or Title One.

Perhaps a weird question: how do you find out the SES of the school? Thanks!

Pretty much every elementary in the Langley and McLean districts (with the exception of Timber Lane) will be high SES.

Elementaries that feed schools like Lake Braddock and West Springfield are likely to be mid-tier.

Does your school offer free breakfast or free lunch for all students this year? If so, it’s definitely Title I.

Very helpful, thank you. No free lunch this year, but they did last year.

All schools had free lunch last year for all students. It was a Covid thing. Look on the great schools website and you will see how many kids qualify for free a reduced meals at your school.

Yes, this is correct. Everyone got free lunch last year. Only the Title I schools are still getting it this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s extremely difficult to comment on chances for admission without knowing the school. I can understand not wanting to mention your school by name but you at least need to identify as high-SES, mid-tier, or Title One.

Perhaps a weird question: how do you find out the SES of the school? Thanks!

Pretty much every elementary in the Langley and McLean districts (with the exception of Timber Lane) will be high SES.

Elementaries that feed schools like Lake Braddock and West Springfield are likely to be mid-tier.

Does your school offer free breakfast or free lunch for all students this year? If so, it’s definitely Title I.

Very helpful, thank you. No free lunch this year, but they did last year.

All schools had free lunch last year for all students. It was a Covid thing. Look on the great schools website and you will see how many kids qualify for free an reduced meals at your school.

Thanks a bunch! It says 19% on that website.

[Anonymous]

Are they looking at age percentile or grade percentile? My child is young for her grade. Her percentiles for age are 86,77, 99,95 but it’s 76,60(!),98,89 for grade level.