PVS October Open and Time Standards

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Coach here. For the 10 and unders what you really want to see is the kid who is very talented, maybe getting AAA times, but is not just dominating due to size. There are a lot of kids who are huge 10 year olds, very muscular etc and they can destroy the competition due to pure strength. But it’s the normal looking but super fast kid who will most likely ultimately succeed, especially if they are quite thin. These kids eventually grow and gain muscle, and that combined with their athleticism and that kind of mysterious natural feel for the water makes them unstoppable. So yes, I see that the top swimmers at 10 usually succeed IF they fit this profile. That is, if you can keep them in the sport!

Eh - I’ve seen lots of tiny kids dominate in 10&under. Look at most of the 10&under record breakers from the last several years. They are little things. It’s pretty easy to dominate in 10&under by having good technique and just swimming more than anyone else. If those kids don’t grow and stay small, they fall behind as other kids master technique and swim more. I can think of many who fit this bill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coach here. For the 10 and unders what you really want to see is the kid who is very talented, maybe getting AAA times, but is not just dominating due to size. There are a lot of kids who are huge 10 year olds, very muscular etc and they can destroy the competition due to pure strength. But it’s the normal looking but super fast kid who will most likely ultimately succeed, especially if they are quite thin. These kids eventually grow and gain muscle, and that combined with their athleticism and that kind of mysterious natural feel for the water makes them unstoppable. So yes, I see that the top swimmers at 10 usually succeed IF they fit this profile. That is, if you can keep them in the sport!

Eh - I’ve seen lots of tiny kids dominate in 10&under. Look at most of the 10&under record breakers from the last several years. They are little things. It’s pretty easy to dominate in 10&under by having good technique and just swimming more than anyone else. If those kids don’t grow and stay small, they fall behind as other kids master technique and swim more. I can think of many who fit this bill.

Lol. Well since you’ve “seen” tiny kids dominate 10&under, it must be so easy to do so?! You sounds bitter. And like you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coach here. For the 10 and unders what you really want to see is the kid who is very talented, maybe getting AAA times, but is not just dominating due to size. There are a lot of kids who are huge 10 year olds, very muscular etc and they can destroy the competition due to pure strength. But it’s the normal looking but super fast kid who will most likely ultimately succeed, especially if they are quite thin. These kids eventually grow and gain muscle, and that combined with their athleticism and that kind of mysterious natural feel for the water makes them unstoppable. So yes, I see that the top swimmers at 10 usually succeed IF they fit this profile. That is, if you can keep them in the sport!

Eh - I’ve seen lots of tiny kids dominate in 10&under. Look at most of the 10&under record breakers from the last several years. They are little things. It’s pretty easy to dominate in 10&under by having good technique and just swimming more than anyone else. If those kids don’t grow and stay small, they fall behind as other kids master technique and swim more. I can think of many who fit this bill.

Based on what I saw last week, none of the very fast 10 year olds were tiny. Not all of them were super tall, but I wouldn’t call any of them tiny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coach here. For the 10 and unders what you really want to see is the kid who is very talented, maybe getting AAA times, but is not just dominating due to size. There are a lot of kids who are huge 10 year olds, very muscular etc and they can destroy the competition due to pure strength. But it’s the normal looking but super fast kid who will most likely ultimately succeed, especially if they are quite thin. These kids eventually grow and gain muscle, and that combined with their athleticism and that kind of mysterious natural feel for the water makes them unstoppable. So yes, I see that the top swimmers at 10 usually succeed IF they fit this profile. That is, if you can keep them in the sport!

Eh - I’ve seen lots of tiny kids dominate in 10&under. Look at most of the 10&under record breakers from the last several years. They are little things. It’s pretty easy to dominate in 10&under by having good technique and just swimming more than anyone else. If those kids don’t grow and stay small, they fall behind as other kids master technique and swim more. I can think of many who fit this bill.

Lol. Well since you’ve “seen” tiny kids dominate 10&under, it must be so easy to do so?! You sounds bitter. And like you have no idea what you are talking about.

Honest question- what sounds bitter about my post? I’m honestly not at all bitter about anything I wrote. I was just writing about things I’ve noticed over the years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coach here. For the 10 and unders what you really want to see is the kid who is very talented, maybe getting AAA times, but is not just dominating due to size. There are a lot of kids who are huge 10 year olds, very muscular etc and they can destroy the competition due to pure strength. But it’s the normal looking but super fast kid who will most likely ultimately succeed, especially if they are quite thin. These kids eventually grow and gain muscle, and that combined with their athleticism and that kind of mysterious natural feel for the water makes them unstoppable. So yes, I see that the top swimmers at 10 usually succeed IF they fit this profile. That is, if you can keep them in the sport!

Eh - I’ve seen lots of tiny kids dominate in 10&under. Look at most of the 10&under record breakers from the last several years. They are little things. It’s pretty easy to dominate in 10&under by having good technique and just swimming more than anyone else. If those kids don’t grow and stay small, they fall behind as other kids master technique and swim more. I can think of many who fit this bill.

Lol. Well since you’ve “seen” tiny kids dominate 10&under, it must be so easy to do so?! You sounds bitter. And like you have no idea what you are talking about.

Honest question- what sounds bitter about my post? I’m honestly not at all bitter about anything I wrote. I was just writing about things I’ve noticed over the years.

I don't know about bitter, but you certainly sound pretty arrogant to casually dismiss the experience of a coach who likely knows a lot more about the sport and its progression than you do, simply because you have seen small kids win? Besides, I think that was the point - the smaller/thinner kids who are dominating probably will be the ones who make it big time in swimming, assuming they grow to a normal size and start weight training at some point in their teens. And what 10&under record breakers are you referring to? National age group records? I can assure you most of those kids are not small. Are you talking about a random summer swim team? That's not what's being discussed here.

It's a fact that pre-puberty, success in youth sports is largely dependent on size and speed of physical development. That can all change a lot during puberty. And yes, in swim often the bulkier kids are very strong at young ages, but sometimes become too bulky or large as they get older and it's hard to maintain a good streamline in the water. For girls, sometimes the very strong young girls hit puberty early and stop growing in height and become very curvy. Again, hard for swimming. It's easier to be slim and do weight training to put on muscle than to be larger and constantly fighting to keep slimmed down.

[Anonymous]

I’m also curious how this discussion fits into individual strokes. I’ve seen some “tiny” breaststrokers that are really good because that stroke isn’t just about strength and size. Does that hold up as a kid gets older, or do the bigger, stronger kids eventually move to the top?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Coach here. For the 10 and unders what you really want to see is the kid who is very talented, maybe getting AAA times, but is not just dominating due to size. There are a lot of kids who are huge 10 year olds, very muscular etc and they can destroy the competition due to pure strength. But it’s the normal looking but super fast kid who will most likely ultimately succeed, especially if they are quite thin. These kids eventually grow and gain muscle, and that combined with their athleticism and that kind of mysterious natural feel for the water makes them unstoppable. So yes, I see that the top swimmers at 10 usually succeed IF they fit this profile. That is, if you can keep them in the sport!

Thanks for this comment. Do you find this differs for boys and girls? I think parents get way more excited about fast 10 year olds than coaches. I have a fast 10 year old who weighs 76 pounds. He is tall, but is built like a rail. There are other 10 year olds who are 20-30 pounds heavier and you can see that just from the momentum of the dive, they are ahead at the start. I have also noticed that some young swimmers don’t have great technique, but they have the drive and ability to really churn the water and take many more strokes per lap than other kids. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.