PVS October Open and Time Standards

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New swim mom of a 9 year old boy here. I was looking over the times for the PVS October Open and it made me curious about the USA Swimming time standards. From just eyeballing it, the top boy in each event across all three sites usually has an AA time with just a few AAA times. There are usually just a couple AA/AAA times in each event. I'm not seeing any AAAA times over the three sites in any boys 9-10 event. I thought AAAA meant top 2%, AAA top 6% and AA top 8%. Most of the events have 150 to 200 swimmers over the three sites. It seems like most events should have at least one AAAA time, and every event should have a handful of AAA times. Are the best area swimmers not competing in these opens? Or is this just because this is early in the season? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding?

The 9-10 boy who won the 100 BK at the Alexandria site had a AAAA time that appears to be the fastest in the country for his age group so far this season. He also crushed the field, of pretty decent swimmers, in the 200 BK.

I went to USAswimming and when I pull up the month for AAAA time standards there is no such person. USAswimming has been wonky buy it pulled the 12 swimmers in the database with AAAA cuts.

Now, there are two NOVA Aquatic boys that had AAA standard for backstroke, a 9 and a 10 year old. Pretty impressive for that club. But they are like 26th ranked.

DP, that kid definitely had a AAAA time. I don’t think USA swimming has uploaded the times from this weekend yet.

As the season starts, there will be more. PVS does not have a lot of top swimmers. So far it looks like NCAP and Machine are leading the charge. But it is early and some kids have not even had their first meet yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that PVS is as strong as a league as Virginia.

I have kids who have swum in both LSCs (PVS and Virginia). This is a true statement.

I agree with you both on this statement. But what I wonder is why. For what reason?

I also agree with this statement and I think it comes down to pool space/access. A lot of Virginia teams own their own water and and have much greater flexibility, and therefore are able to offer more/better practice times, smaller groups, etc.

Not sure this is the entire reason but the PP is correct. Take NOVA for example- they are a huge gold level club. The team recently went in with the city of Richmond to convert the former Regency mall into a pool (https://www.shopregencysqmall.com/directory/nova-of-virginia-aquatics). The Virginia zone team had a pre-LC meet practice there. It's a beautiful facility over which they have full control and I give them credit on an ingenious use of space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New swim mom of a 9 year old boy here. I was looking over the times for the PVS October Open and it made me curious about the USA Swimming time standards. From just eyeballing it, the top boy in each event across all three sites usually has an AA time with just a few AAA times. There are usually just a couple AA/AAA times in each event. I'm not seeing any AAAA times over the three sites in any boys 9-10 event. I thought AAAA meant top 2%, AAA top 6% and AA top 8%. Most of the events have 150 to 200 swimmers over the three sites. It seems like most events should have at least one AAAA time, and every event should have a handful of AAA times. Are the best area swimmers not competing in these opens? Or is this just because this is early in the season? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding?

The 9-10 boy who won the 100 BK at the Alexandria site had a AAAA time that appears to be the fastest in the country for his age group so far this season. He also crushed the field, of pretty decent swimmers, in the 200 BK.

I went to USAswimming and when I pull up the month for AAAA time standards there is no such person. USAswimming has been wonky buy it pulled the 12 swimmers in the database with AAAA cuts.

Now, there are two NOVA Aquatic boys that had AAA standard for backstroke, a 9 and a 10 year old. Pretty impressive for that club. But they are like 26th ranked.

DP, that kid definitely had a AAAA time. I don’t think USA swimming has uploaded the times from this weekend yet.

As the season starts, there will be more. PVS does not have a lot of top swimmers. So far it looks like NCAP and Machine are leading the charge. But it is early and some kids have not even had their first meet yet.

PVS used to have a lot of top swimmers but it hasn't had as many in recent years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that PVS is as strong as a league as Virginia.

I have kids who have swum in both LSCs (PVS and Virginia). This is a true statement.

I agree with you both on this statement. But what I wonder is why. For what reason?

I also agree with this statement and I think it comes down to pool space/access. A lot of Virginia teams own their own water and and have much greater flexibility, and therefore are able to offer more/better practice times, smaller groups, etc.

Not sure this is the entire reason but the PP is correct. Take NOVA for example- they are a huge gold level club. The team recently went in with the city of Richmond to convert the former Regency mall into a pool (https://www.shopregencysqmall.com/directory/nova-of-virginia-aquatics). The Virginia zone team had a pre-LC meet practice there. It's a beautiful facility over which they have full control and I give them credit on an ingenious use of space.

I just looked this Richmond team up when another PP mentioned that they had two top swimmers in an age group on a stroke. WOW. Those are their pools and more than one location. That has to make a huge difference. As far as I know in this area everything is a high school pool, a county pool, or a university pool. The St. James - although has a team, also has a lot of other constraints and it is not a club only pool.

I can't imagine the advantages that would give a team. Your own pool - you could offer so much more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New swim mom of a 9 year old boy here. I was looking over the times for the PVS October Open and it made me curious about the USA Swimming time standards. From just eyeballing it, the top boy in each event across all three sites usually has an AA time with just a few AAA times. There are usually just a couple AA/AAA times in each event. I'm not seeing any AAAA times over the three sites in any boys 9-10 event. I thought AAAA meant top 2%, AAA top 6% and AA top 8%. Most of the events have 150 to 200 swimmers over the three sites. It seems like most events should have at least one AAAA time, and every event should have a handful of AAA times. Are the best area swimmers not competing in these opens? Or is this just because this is early in the season? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding?

The 9-10 boy who won the 100 BK at the Alexandria site had a AAAA time that appears to be the fastest in the country for his age group so far this season. He also crushed the field, of pretty decent swimmers, in the 200 BK.

Newer swim parent here -- how do you pull all the times for the country YTD?

Here's the kid who swam in the October Open this weekend, scroll to current season rankings and click on the number under USA: https://www.swimmingrank.com/mdva/strokes/strokes_pv/CFOILBHCO_100BK.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New swim mom of a 9 year old boy here. I was looking over the times for the PVS October Open and it made me curious about the USA Swimming time standards. From just eyeballing it, the top boy in each event across all three sites usually has an AA time with just a few AAA times. There are usually just a couple AA/AAA times in each event. I'm not seeing any AAAA times over the three sites in any boys 9-10 event. I thought AAAA meant top 2%, AAA top 6% and AA top 8%. Most of the events have 150 to 200 swimmers over the three sites. It seems like most events should have at least one AAAA time, and every event should have a handful of AAA times. Are the best area swimmers not competing in these opens? Or is this just because this is early in the season? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding?

The 9-10 boy who won the 100 BK at the Alexandria site had a AAAA time that appears to be the fastest in the country for his age group so far this season. He also crushed the field, of pretty decent swimmers, in the 200 BK.

Newer swim parent here -- how do you pull all the times for the country YTD?

Here's the kid who swam in the October Open this weekend, scroll to current season rankings and click on the number under USA: https://www.swimmingrank.com/mdva/strokes/strokes_pv/CFOILBHCO_100BK.html

Here’s another one from that same Location and meet. 9th in the country for 11-12 year old 200 meter back. I know she’s asking about 9-10 year olds, but there were definitely good swimmers at this meet.

https://www.swimmingrank.com/mdva/strokes/strokes_pv/HCEZNBRAO_200BK.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that PVS is as strong as a league as Virginia.

I have kids who have swum in both LSCs (PVS and Virginia). This is a true statement.

I agree with you both on this statement. But what I wonder is why. For what reason?

I also agree with this statement and I think it comes down to pool space/access. A lot of Virginia teams own their own water and and have much greater flexibility, and therefore are able to offer more/better practice times, smaller groups, etc.

Not sure this is the entire reason but the PP is correct. Take NOVA for example- they are a huge gold level club. The team recently went in with the city of Richmond to convert the former Regency mall into a pool (https://www.shopregencysqmall.com/directory/nova-of-virginia-aquatics). The Virginia zone team had a pre-LC meet practice there. It's a beautiful facility over which they have full control and I give them credit on an ingenious use of space.

I just looked this Richmond team up when another PP mentioned that they had two top swimmers in an age group on a stroke. WOW. Those are their pools and more than one location. That has to make a huge difference. As far as I know in this area everything is a high school pool, a county pool, or a university pool. The St. James - although has a team, also has a lot of other constraints and it is not a club only pool.

I can't imagine the advantages that would give a team. Your own pool - you could offer so much more.

This is that same Va club and looks like they have only had one meet so probably not best times. This is, for example, 9-10 boys 100 IM, pretty solid times. The top swimmer missed the AAAA by a fraction of a second and is ranked 16 in the US this season so far https://www.swimmingrank.com/mdva/va/scy_VANOVA_boys_5_10_100IM.html

The boy from PVS is phenomenal, especially in backstroke. But PVS overall has much less depth than VA, so many more VA swimmers getting AAA-AAAA times, and not just in one stroke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New swim mom of a 9 year old boy here. I was looking over the times for the PVS October Open and it made me curious about the USA Swimming time standards. From just eyeballing it, the top boy in each event across all three sites usually has an AA time with just a few AAA times. There are usually just a couple AA/AAA times in each event. I'm not seeing any AAAA times over the three sites in any boys 9-10 event. I thought AAAA meant top 2%, AAA top 6% and AA top 8%. Most of the events have 150 to 200 swimmers over the three sites. It seems like most events should have at least one AAAA time, and every event should have a handful of AAA times. Are the best area swimmers not competing in these opens? Or is this just because this is early in the season? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding?

The 9-10 boy who won the 100 BK at the Alexandria site had a AAAA time that appears to be the fastest in the country for his age group so far this season. He also crushed the field, of pretty decent swimmers, in the 200 BK.

I went to USAswimming and when I pull up the month for AAAA time standards there is no such person. USAswimming has been wonky buy it pulled the 12 swimmers in the database with AAAA cuts.

Now, there are two NOVA Aquatic boys that had AAA standard for backstroke, a 9 and a 10 year old. Pretty impressive for that club. But they are like 26th ranked.

DP, that kid definitely had a AAAA time. I don’t think USA swimming has uploaded the times from this weekend yet.

As the season starts, there will be more. PVS does not have a lot of top swimmers. So far it looks like NCAP and Machine are leading the charge. But it is early and some kids have not even had their first meet yet.

Are they?

Looking at the top ten swim times for boys in PVS:

50f: 1 from Makos, 2 from OCCS, 3 from RMSC, 1 from ASA, 1 from Machine, 1 from MSSC
100f: 1 from Makos, 1 from OCCS, 2 from RMSC, 1 from ASA, 1 from FISH, 1 from Machine, 1 from Potomac Marlins, 1 from MSSC
200f: 2 from OCCS, 3 from RMSC, 2 from ASA, 1 from FISH, 1 from MSSC, 1 from NCAP
500f: 3 from RMSC, 3 from OCCS, 2 from ASA and 1 from NCAP

50 back: 1 from ASA, 2 from RMSC, 1 from Makos, 1 from NCAP, 1 from York, 1 from Moons, and 1 from MSSC
100 back: 1 from Machine, 4 from RMSC, 2 from ASA, 1 from NCAP and 1 from FISH

50 breast: 2 from RMSC, 5 NCAP, 1 ASA, 1 machine and 1 Makos
100 breast: 3 from NCAP, 1 FISH, 1 Marlins, 1 ASA, 1 machine, 1 RMSC, and 1 Moons

50 fly: 2 from RMSC, 1 from MSSC, 2 from Moons, 1 from Makos and 1 from Machine
100 fly: 1 from Machine, 1 from YORK, 1 from MSSC, 2 from RMSC, 2 from Moons, 1 from NCAP, and 1 from FISH

100im: 1 from Machine, 2 from RMSC, 2 from FISH, 1 from ASA, 2 from NCAP, 1 from Makos and 1 from Moons.
200im: 4 from RMSC, 2 from ASA, 1 from NCAP, 1 from FISH and 1 from YORK.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t hold too much stock in whether 9 and 10 year olds can get those AAA and AAAA times. Irrelevant to future success in the pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t hold too much stock in whether 9 and 10 year olds can get those AAA and AAAA times. Irrelevant to future success in the pool.

Eh, not really. Those kids, if they stick with the sport, usually end up being at the top as teens/college swimmers as well. It’s a DCUM fantasy that the B level 9-10 year olds suddenly rise to the top at 16 years old.

[Anonymous]

Have you not heard of the “ten and under wonder” report put out by USA Swimming? Even the fastest 9/10 drop out at an astonishing rate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you not heard of the “ten and under wonder” report put out by USA Swimming? Even the fastest 9/10 drop out at an astonishing rate

Yes, swimming is a high drop out rate sport. It is an incredibly grueling and time intensive sport at the higher levels, and it can be lonely too. However, the high rate of drop out in no way indicates that achieving AAA+ times at younger ages is “irrelevant” to future success in the sport. That is laughably false.

[Anonymous]

Only 11% of the fastest 9/10 will remain that fast as an open swimmer:

[url] https://www.teamunify.com/nerams/UserFiles/File/THE%2010U%20WONDER.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you not heard of the “ten and under wonder” report put out by USA Swimming? Even the fastest 9/10 drop out at an astonishing rate

Yes, swimming is a high drop out rate sport. It is an incredibly grueling and time intensive sport at the higher levels, and it can be lonely too. However, the high rate of drop out in no way indicates that achieving AAA+ times at younger ages is “irrelevant” to future success in the sport. That is laughably false.

+1. The DCUM myth that if you are mediocre swimmer at 9-10 you will definitely overtake the kids that were at the top once you are 13. The top 9-10 swimmers are also all around good/great athletes, and not everyone likes to specialize in an individual sport, some of the attrition is attributable to that. We are also just getting into the generation of kids that focus heavily on swimming starting at 9-10. 5-10 years ago there was not this club culture of early specialization and focus, and today’s top 9-10 year olds are faster than those 5-10 years ago. I would be curious to see what the results of this study are 10 years in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also. open meets have no time standards are typically the slower swimmers.

Where are the fast swimmer swimming this time with f year

They are likely swimming off events (not their best strokes)