NYU Prof fired because his class was too hard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

Right but med schools notice that! These kids want credit on their med school applications for an nyu orgo class (which certainly gives them a boost over an applicant with a cc orgo class) but they don’t want it to be too hard.

That is 100% untrue.

You think med school admissions committees can’t differentiate who took their pre-reqs at Penn or Northwestern and who took them at community college? I am a huge fan of community colleges and I’m not saying it makes sense for schools to ding applicants but they absolutely do.

They don’t care. Just like they don’t care your calculus class was a lame HS class and a 4 on your AP exam.

Maybe if you are applying to upstairs Hollywood medical college but otherwise I assure you they do notice and care.

No they don’t. top universities encourage getting some of these nuisance lame classes out of the way in summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

This is not completely accurate. Some colleges and medical schools will not accept those credits. Second, if one takes it at community college because they think it’s an easy A, med schools already know this game

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

This is not completely accurate. Some colleges and medical schools will not accept those credits. Second, if one takes it at community college because they think it’s an easy A, med schools already know this game

Letter grades are not transferred.

Top universities have relationships with top med schools, some students don’t even take MCATs.

It’s like none of you ever applied to med school or know what the prices is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If smart kids are failing at a high rate you are not doing your job as a professor.

Sorry the free ride for average white makes is over. Welcome to the world the rest of us have to live in. Either do your job or get fired.

Why doesn’t this apply to the students? Their job is to study. It’s not the job of a college professor to pass students who won’t (or can’t) learn the material. “Meeting your students where they are” ends in high school. If you can’t do university level work, you shouldn’t be in a university. Unfortunately it seems “meeting the students where they are” in HS means we have an increasing number of kids who can’t do the work. The answer is not to dumb down the university. Maybe community college can fill the gap, but there are plenty of professions who need workers that don’t have college degrees.

Because if you have a problem with many you are the problem.

It’s organic chem not creative writing. Either your tests make sense or not. His test didn’t make sense and questions were written badly.

There are certain classes like calculus, chem, physics, … you either teach it or you don’t, tests are not subjective. It’s pedestrian to claim these classes are different at different institutions.

He wrote badly worded tests to prove he was hard sand he got caught not going his job, bye Felicia.

We’re you in his class? How do you know this? It was a minority of students who complained, and other students weighed in to defend him. As pp said, the professor taught at Princeton for decades and was “revered.” He literally wrote the textbook and created the modern method of teaching organic chemistry. Do you have evidence that he purposely made his tests confusing after years of teaching at NYU?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If smart kids are failing at a high rate you are not doing your job as a professor.

Sorry the free ride for average white makes is over. Welcome to the world the rest of us have to live in. Either do your job or get fired.

Why doesn’t this apply to the students? Their job is to study. It’s not the job of a college professor to pass students who won’t (or can’t) learn the material. “Meeting your students where they are” ends in high school. If you can’t do university level work, you shouldn’t be in a university. Unfortunately it seems “meeting the students where they are” in HS means we have an increasing number of kids who can’t do the work. The answer is not to dumb down the university. Maybe community college can fill the gap, but there are plenty of professions who need workers that don’t have college degrees.

Because if you have a problem with many you are the problem.

It’s organic chem not creative writing. Either your tests make sense or not. His test didn’t make sense and questions were written badly.

There are certain classes like calculus, chem, physics, … you either teach it or you don’t, tests are not subjective. It’s pedestrian to claim these classes are different at different institutions.

He wrote badly worded tests to prove he was hard sand he got caught not going his job, bye Felicia.

We’re you in his class? How do you know this? It was a minority of students who complained, and other students weighed in to defend him. As pp said, the professor taught at Princeton for decades and was “revered.” He literally wrote the textbook and created the modern method of teaching organic chemistry. Do you have evidence that he purposely made his tests confusing after years of teaching at NYU?

It’s in the findings by the university.

Princeton has a rule that nobody gets below a C. Also he’s 85 perhaps he’s not as good as once was. He paid $5000 to video has lectures and that’s his class, did he do that at Princeton?

Writing text books for your own class is what every professor does to make more money, plus a revision every year so you can’t buy used books.

Did u even go to college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The inmates are running the asylum.

This. We’re in a race to the bottom. Shame on the administration.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of one of my classes. None of the questions in the tests matched what was covered in the lectures or textbook. It was the most interesting class but grade wise it was the worst. To this day I remember her lectures, she was brilliant. And a terrible test writer.

It's definitely possible that this is what's happening, just like it's possible that the kids are complaining about tests that are appropriately difficult. It's really hard to say without having taken the class and taken the exams, so it becomes this Rorschach test that reveals whatever you already think about what's happening in colleges, but nothing else.

I’ve had experience with new teachers who haven’t yet calibrated their tests and give tests that almost no one can pass. In this case, it’s a professor who is giving the same tests he has given for decades (and allegedly tried to make them easier). Nothing has changed but the students.

It's possible, but we had an experienced professor when I was in school who taught and then had every single student fail the standardized university exam (it was a language class). The same students passed the exam after another course with a different teacher (and being exposed to the material twice, obviously), sometimes these things happen.

Similar situation but in a high school, and the case was really just that the teacher was well beyond retirement and no longer connecting with the students and the material, so he wasn't "teaching" the people in front of him (and was absent a lot). He said, but kids used to get it; must be something wrong with these kids (who were admitted to this particular class because they were the cream of the crop). Well, you used to actually teach it to the students; now you think they should just magically know what you know for some reason? Not everyone ages gracefully. When your students are all failing, it might just be time to retire.

[Anonymous]

His rate my professor is pretty bad dating back to 2017. Even his high ratings say the TAs teach all the information or you have to teach yourself from the book,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

This is not completely accurate. Some colleges and medical schools will not accept those credits. Second, if one takes it at community college because they think it’s an easy A, med schools already know this game

Letter grades are not transferred.

Top universities have relationships with top med schools, some students don’t even take MCATs.

It’s like none of you ever applied to med school or know what the prices is.

Not sure what college you attended, but I can assure you that my top 20 college did would not even accept my or go credit from my state college, much less the local community college. They noted it on my transcript in a corner but did not satisfy requirement to use for anything else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If smart kids are failing at a high rate you are not doing your job as a professor.

Sorry the free ride for average white makes is over. Welcome to the world the rest of us have to live in. Either do your job or get fired.

Why doesn’t this apply to the students? Their job is to study. It’s not the job of a college professor to pass students who won’t (or can’t) learn the material. “Meeting your students where they are” ends in high school. If you can’t do university level work, you shouldn’t be in a university. Unfortunately it seems “meeting the students where they are” in HS means we have an increasing number of kids who can’t do the work. The answer is not to dumb down the university. Maybe community college can fill the gap, but there are plenty of professions who need workers that don’t have college degrees.

Because if you have a problem with many you are the problem.

It’s organic chem not creative writing. Either your tests make sense or not. His test didn’t make sense and questions were written badly.

There are certain classes like calculus, chem, physics, … you either teach it or you don’t, tests are not subjective. It’s pedestrian to claim these classes are different at different institutions.

He wrote badly worded tests to prove he was hard sand he got caught not going his job, bye Felicia.

We’re you in his class? How do you know this? It was a minority of students who complained, and other students weighed in to defend him. As pp said, the professor taught at Princeton for decades and was “revered.” He literally wrote the textbook and created the modern method of teaching organic chemistry. Do you have evidence that he purposely made his tests confusing after years of teaching at NYU? [/quote

Why did a revered teacher of decades leave Princeton for NYU?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If smart kids are failing at a high rate you are not doing your job as a professor.

Sorry the free ride for average white makes is over. Welcome to the world the rest of us have to live in. Either do your job or get fired.

Why doesn’t this apply to the students? Their job is to study. It’s not the job of a college professor to pass students who won’t (or can’t) learn the material. “Meeting your students where they are” ends in high school. If you can’t do university level work, you shouldn’t be in a university. Unfortunately it seems “meeting the students where they are” in HS means we have an increasing number of kids who can’t do the work. The answer is not to dumb down the university. Maybe community college can fill the gap, but there are plenty of professions who need workers that don’t have college degrees.

Because if you have a problem with many you are the problem.

It’s organic chem not creative writing. Either your tests make sense or not. His test didn’t make sense and questions were written badly.

There are certain classes like calculus, chem, physics, … you either teach it or you don’t, tests are not subjective. It’s pedestrian to claim these classes are different at different institutions.

He wrote badly worded tests to prove he was hard sand he got caught not going his job, bye Felicia.

We’re you in his class? How do you know this? It was a minority of students who complained, and other students weighed in to defend him. As pp said, the professor taught at Princeton for decades and was “revered.” He literally wrote the textbook and created the modern method of teaching organic chemistry. Do you have evidence that he purposely made his tests confusing after years of teaching at NYU?

It’s in the findings by the university.

Princeton has a rule that nobody gets below a C. Also he’s 85 perhaps he’s not as good as once was. He paid $5000 to video has lectures and that’s his class, did he do that at Princeton?

Writing text books for your own class is what every professor does to make more money, plus a revision every year so you can’t buy used books.

Did u even go to college?

Did you go to college? Judging by your grammar (or lack thereof), I hope the answer is no. If you did, you are Exhibit A for the decline of the university education in the U.S.

In any case, please post a link to the university’s findings, as the conclusion you describe is not in the NYT article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If smart kids are failing at a high rate you are not doing your job as a professor.

Sorry the free ride for average white makes is over. Welcome to the world the rest of us have to live in. Either do your job or get fired.

Why doesn’t this apply to the students? Their job is to study. It’s not the job of a college professor to pass students who won’t (or can’t) learn the material. “Meeting your students where they are” ends in high school. If you can’t do university level work, you shouldn’t be in a university. Unfortunately it seems “meeting the students where they are” in HS means we have an increasing number of kids who can’t do the work. The answer is not to dumb down the university. Maybe community college can fill the gap, but there are plenty of professions who need workers that don’t have college degrees.

Because if you have a problem with many you are the problem.

It’s organic chem not creative writing. Either your tests make sense or not. His test didn’t make sense and questions were written badly.

There are certain classes like calculus, chem, physics, … you either teach it or you don’t, tests are not subjective. It’s pedestrian to claim these classes are different at different institutions.

He wrote badly worded tests to prove he was hard sand he got caught not going his job, bye Felicia.

We’re you in his class? How do you know this? It was a minority of students who complained, and other students weighed in to defend him. As pp said, the professor taught at Princeton for decades and was “revered.” He literally wrote the textbook and created the modern method of teaching organic chemistry. Do you have evidence that he purposely made his tests confusing after years of teaching at NYU? [/quote

Why did a revered teacher of decades leave Princeton for NYU?

It’s in the article. He retired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His rate my professor is pretty bad dating back to 2017. Even his high ratings say the TAs teach all the information or you have to teach yourself from the book,

His average is actually pretty middle of the road, but it’s interesting that the scores tend to be either 5 or 1. It looks like the bright students really enjoy his class and the ones who struggled really struggled. The kids who rated him 5 all said reading the textbook was key. The reviews actually back his argument that these kids don’t know how to study. They expect to be spoon fed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

This is not completely accurate. Some colleges and medical schools will not accept those credits. Second, if one takes it at community college because they think it’s an easy A, med schools already know this game

Letter grades are not transferred.

Top universities have relationships with top med schools, some students don’t even take MCATs.

It’s like none of you ever applied to med school or know what the prices is.

Not sure what college you attended, but I can assure you that my top 20 college did would not even accept my or go credit from my state college, much less the local community college. They noted it on my transcript in a corner but did not satisfy requirement to use for anything else

I went to a top ten SLAC and the head of the Econ department only reluctantly approved my request to get credit for Harvard Summer School in economics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His rate my professor is pretty bad dating back to 2017. Even his high ratings say the TAs teach all the information or you have to teach yourself from the book,

His average is actually pretty middle of the road, but it’s interesting that the scores tend to be either 5 or 1. It looks like the bright students really enjoy his class and the ones who struggled really struggled. The kids who rated him 5 all said reading the textbook was key. The reviews actually back his argument that these kids don’t know how to study. They expect to be spoon fed.

Here’s the text of the only review I found that wasn’t a 5 or 1 (it was a 3):

Just average professor but honestly doesn't deserve all the hate he's getting. Of course the subject is tough, but got mid 80s to low 90s on exams with minimal studying just by watching the lecture videos and the Zoom sessions. If you put in the work, you'll be fine.