NYU Prof fired because his class was too hard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of one of my classes. None of the questions in the tests matched what was covered in the lectures or textbook. It was the most interesting class but grade wise it was the worst. To this day I remember her lectures, she was brilliant. And a terrible test writer.

This guy literally wrote the textbook and had always received good reviews before. I think he was targeted became we he refused to try to make the students feel better about their lack of effort. From the article:

In the field of organic chemistry, Maitland Jones Jr. has a storied reputation. He taught the subject for decades, first at Princeton and then at New York University, and wrote an influential textbook. He received awards for his teaching, as well as recognition as one of N.Y.U.’s coolest professors.

Jones was teaching at Princeton when I went there. He was revered and, yes, his class was tough. I think he was also involved with one of the residential colleges as a faculty member.

I don't doubt the same thing could have happened today at other schools besides NYU, and perhaps even at Princeton, although I'd like to think that wouldn't be the case. Too many administrators badgering faculty members to treat students like consumers - "the customer is always right."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not know this specific situation, but I have some experience with academics and IME universities like to have professors with "hard" reputations. Nobody gets fired just because their class is too hard. I suspect there is something else going on here -- either inappropriate behavior or comments on his part, cost cutting by the university, or he was a PITA for the administration to deal with so they took this excuse to be rid of him.

That was my thought too. There is no way this was the only reason.

Same. I wonder what else went into this decision.

[Anonymous]

Jesus, it is scary how Idiocracy is turning into real life. Our doctors in the future:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of one of my classes. None of the questions in the tests matched what was covered in the lectures or textbook. It was the most interesting class but grade wise it was the worst. To this day I remember her lectures, she was brilliant. And a terrible test writer.

This guy literally wrote the textbook and had always received good reviews before. I think he was targeted became we he refused to try to make the students feel better about their lack of effort. From the article:

In the field of organic chemistry, Maitland Jones Jr. has a storied reputation. He taught the subject for decades, first at Princeton and then at New York University, and wrote an influential textbook. He received awards for his teaching, as well as recognition as one of N.Y.U.’s coolest professors.

Jones was teaching at Princeton when I went there. He was revered and, yes, his class was tough. I think he was also involved with one of the residential colleges as a faculty member.

I don't doubt the same thing could have happened today at other schools besides NYU, and perhaps even at Princeton, although I'd like to think that wouldn't be the case. Too many administrators badgering faculty members to treat students like consumers - "the customer is always right."

Princeton has rules about never giving below a C so not really comparable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If smart kids are failing at a high rate you are not doing your job as a professor.

Sorry the free ride for average white makes is over. Welcome to the world the rest of us have to live in. Either do your job or get fired.

Why doesn’t this apply to the students? Their job is to study. It’s not the job of a college professor to pass students who won’t (or can’t) learn the material. “Meeting your students where they are” ends in high school. If you can’t do university level work, you shouldn’t be in a university. Unfortunately it seems “meeting the students where they are” in HS means we have an increasing number of kids who can’t do the work. The answer is not to dumb down the university. Maybe community college can fill the gap, but there are plenty of professions who need workers that don’t have college degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

Right but med schools notice that! These kids want credit on their med school applications for an nyu orgo class (which certainly gives them a boost over an applicant with a cc orgo class) but they don’t want it to be too hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of one of my classes. None of the questions in the tests matched what was covered in the lectures or textbook. It was the most interesting class but grade wise it was the worst. To this day I remember her lectures, she was brilliant. And a terrible test writer.

That was Econ for me. The tests had nothing to do with the lectures or reading and then he would grade on a curve so whoever guessed the best received the best grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

Right but med schools notice that! These kids want credit on their med school applications for an nyu orgo class (which certainly gives them a boost over an applicant with a cc orgo class) but they don’t want it to be too hard.

That is 100% untrue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The inmates are running the asylum.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

Right but med schools notice that! These kids want credit on their med school applications for an nyu orgo class (which certainly gives them a boost over an applicant with a cc orgo class) but they don’t want it to be too hard.

That is 100% untrue.

You think med school admissions committees can’t differentiate who took their pre-reqs at Penn or Northwestern and who took them at community college? I am a huge fan of community colleges and I’m not saying it makes sense for schools to ding applicants but they absolutely do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If smart kids are failing at a high rate you are not doing your job as a professor.

Sorry the free ride for average white makes is over. Welcome to the world the rest of us have to live in. Either do your job or get fired.

Why doesn’t this apply to the students? Their job is to study. It’s not the job of a college professor to pass students who won’t (or can’t) learn the material. “Meeting your students where they are” ends in high school. If you can’t do university level work, you shouldn’t be in a university. Unfortunately it seems “meeting the students where they are” in HS means we have an increasing number of kids who can’t do the work. The answer is not to dumb down the university. Maybe community college can fill the gap, but there are plenty of professions who need workers that don’t have college degrees.

Because if you have a problem with many you are the problem.

It’s organic chem not creative writing. Either your tests make sense or not. His test didn’t make sense and questions were written badly.

There are certain classes like calculus, chem, physics, … you either teach it or you don’t, tests are not subjective. It’s pedestrian to claim these classes are different at different institutions.

He wrote badly worded tests to prove he was hard sand he got caught not going his job, bye Felicia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

Right but med schools notice that! These kids want credit on their med school applications for an nyu orgo class (which certainly gives them a boost over an applicant with a cc orgo class) but they don’t want it to be too hard.

That is 100% untrue.

You think med school admissions committees can’t differentiate who took their pre-reqs at Penn or Northwestern and who took them at community college? I am a huge fan of community colleges and I’m not saying it makes sense for schools to ding applicants but they absolutely do.

They don’t care. Just like they don’t care your calculus class was a lame HS class and a 4 on your AP exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason for "weed-out" classes in college for premeds. If these students cannot handle the rigor and stress of a difficult class, how will they handle medical school? Frankly, I wouldn't want them in the position of making life and death decisions.

Is there any actual proof of this regarding this specific class? Or is it just "it's always been done this way thinking"?

It's something that is impossible to prove. Whether its orgo, or some other class, there have always been classes where a premed student just doesn't do well on. One may argue that orgo is not directly useful in medical school, but the fact remains that many medical school classes are difficult and these premed classes show which students know how to learn a difficult topic and which don't.

Yet you can take org Chem at a community college and transfer the credit.

Right but med schools notice that! These kids want credit on their med school applications for an nyu orgo class (which certainly gives them a boost over an applicant with a cc orgo class) but they don’t want it to be too hard.

That is 100% untrue.

You think med school admissions committees can’t differentiate who took their pre-reqs at Penn or Northwestern and who took them at community college? I am a huge fan of community colleges and I’m not saying it makes sense for schools to ding applicants but they absolutely do.

They don’t care. Just like they don’t care your calculus class was a lame HS class and a 4 on your AP exam.

Maybe if you are applying to upstairs Hollywood medical college but otherwise I assure you they do notice and care.