Is everyone just stunned that we’ve stepped back 50 years in time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for. I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs. I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution. I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall. But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.

Liberals ARE the majority, they just can’t get it together and the GOP exploits all of the loopholes. Most of the rest of the Western World is horrified by what’s happening here.

No, they aren’t. Taken as a whole, the country falls somewhere just right of center.

NP. Abortion rights supporters are the majority. And there are other majorities out there that would challenge any lazy left-right or liberal-conservative dichotomy. But many powerful careers depend on avoiding those majorities-in-waiting.

DP, you’re moving the goal posts. PP made a comment that liberals make a majority, not abortion rights supporters. Indeed, there are both liberals and moderates (including moderates on the right) that support some access to abortion.

Abortion rights supporters are a clear majority. Even more than a third of Republicans oppose overturning Roe.
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/19/1099844097/abortion-polling-roe-v-wade-supreme-court-draft-opinion

[Anonymous]

Just got back from visiting relatives in Europe and am still stunned. Apparently I have more rights and privileges with my EU passport than I do with my US passport. I just want some of the basic benefits that other civilized countries offer--and I'd like to not have to worry about my country coming apart at the seams. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that we are just too big and too diverse politically to survive as a unified country.

[Anonymous]

this really is a human rights issue and it is appalling to me that states can take away American citizens human rights because they think that particular medical care that can be NECESSARY is icky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for. I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs. I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution. I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall. But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.

I’m not shocked at all. But it’s fundamentally anti American to believe that you should impose Christianity on us. It’s literally Amendment numero uno.

Sincerely believing that abortion is infanticide and opposing it for that reason isn't imposing Christianity on anyone, stop making false equivalencies. I know non religious folk, and non Christians that are anti-abortion. There is nothing anti-American about being opposed to abortion on the grounds that one sincerely believes that it is infanticide - according to that perspective banning abortion has nothing to do with violating ones rights any more than banning murder does. If you are unable to empathize with or understand this perspective even if you think its fully wrong, and you have distilled all anti-abortion folks into only Southern, fundamentalist Christians who are literally out to violate women's rights because they get off on that, it is sad but it is not surprising given how divided this country is. Folks on the right do the same thing - view pro abortion folks as blood thirsty / heathen baby killers when in reality most pro abortion folks sincerely believe that it isn't killing a child and it is just a medical procedure and therefore not allowing it is a major rights violation. My point is, have some empathy and understanding for folks from different backgrounds with different life experiences -- although it is easy to fall into the nihilist view that half of your country men are evil and out to get you and trample on your rights, this isn't the actual reality. Most folks on both sides are good human beings who believe what they believe sincerely.

ake this from a fellow pro-choice person who possibly just has different life views / experiences than you -

now do capital punishment

is that not state sponsored murder?

Oh, you feel differently about that because of the "worth" of the person, right?

Sit all the way down, hypocrite

[Anonymous]

Case in point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for. I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs. I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution. I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall. But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.

I’m not shocked at all. But it’s fundamentally anti American to believe that you should impose Christianity on us. It’s literally Amendment numero uno.

Sincerely believing that abortion is infanticide and opposing it for that reason isn't imposing Christianity on anyone, stop making false equivalencies. I know non religious folk, and non Christians that are anti-abortion. There is nothing anti-American about being opposed to abortion on the grounds that one sincerely believes that it is infanticide - according to that perspective banning abortion has nothing to do with violating ones rights any more than banning murder does. If you are unable to empathize with or understand this perspective even if you think its fully wrong, and you have distilled all anti-abortion folks into only Southern, fundamentalist Christians who are literally out to violate women's rights because they get off on that, it is sad but it is not surprising given how divided this country is. Folks on the right do the same thing - view pro abortion folks as blood thirsty / heathen baby killers when in reality most pro abortion folks sincerely believe that it isn't killing a child and it is just a medical procedure and therefore not allowing it is a major rights violation. My point is, have some empathy and understanding for folks from different backgrounds with different life experiences -- although it is easy to fall into the nihilist view that half of your country men are evil and out to get you and trample on your rights, this isn't the actual reality. Most folks on both sides are good human beings who believe what they believe sincerely.

ake this from a fellow pro-choice person who possibly just has different life views / experiences than you -

You must have missed the case about the praying football coach pp. Now prayer is allowed at school events and participants can be forced to pray, as this coach's players were, or deal with the consequences. This is definitely imposing Christianity or other religions in public school. And we still have more decisions to come. Yipppee, American Taliban!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for. I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs. I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution. I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall. But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.

Liberals ARE the majority, they just can’t get it together and the GOP exploits all of the loopholes. Most of the rest of the Western World is horrified by what’s happening here.

No, they aren’t. Taken as a whole, the country falls somewhere just right of center.

There's economically liberal/conservative and socially liberal/conservative. According to Forbes (hardly a leftist publication) and based on a Gallup poll, "all age groups have become increasingly socially liberal over the past 20 years." This is backed up by polls on attitudes toward abortion, gun control, gay marriage, and other hot-button issues of our day. (Look them up if you don't believe me--I'm not going to do the work for you).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/24/more-americans-now-socially-liberal-than-conservative-for-first-time-poll-finds/?sh=a1cf9d948d87

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for. I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs. I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution. I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall. But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.

I’m not shocked at all. But it’s fundamentally anti American to believe that you should impose Christianity on us. It’s literally Amendment numero uno.

Sincerely believing that abortion is infanticide and opposing it for that reason isn't imposing Christianity on anyone, stop making false equivalencies. I know non religious folk, and non Christians that are anti-abortion. There is nothing anti-American about being opposed to abortion on the grounds that one sincerely believes that it is infanticide - according to that perspective banning abortion has nothing to do with violating ones rights any more than banning murder does. If you are unable to empathize with or understand this perspective even if you think its fully wrong, and you have distilled all anti-abortion folks into only Southern, fundamentalist Christians who are literally out to violate women's rights because they get off on that, it is sad but it is not surprising given how divided this country is. Folks on the right do the same thing - view pro abortion folks as blood thirsty / heathen baby killers when in reality most pro abortion folks sincerely believe that it isn't killing a child and it is just a medical procedure and therefore not allowing it is a major rights violation. My point is, have some empathy and understanding for folks from different backgrounds with different life experiences -- although it is easy to fall into the nihilist view that half of your country men are evil and out to get you and trample on your rights, this isn't the actual reality. Most folks on both sides are good human beings who believe what they believe sincerely.

ake this from a fellow pro-choice person who possibly just has different life views / experiences than you -

+1. Very well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for. I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs. I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution. I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall. But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.

I’m not shocked at all. But it’s fundamentally anti American to believe that you should impose Christianity on us. It’s literally Amendment numero uno.

Sincerely believing that abortion is infanticide and opposing it for that reason isn't imposing Christianity on anyone, stop making false equivalencies. I know non religious folk, and non Christians that are anti-abortion. There is nothing anti-American about being opposed to abortion on the grounds that one sincerely believes that it is infanticide - according to that perspective banning abortion has nothing to do with violating ones rights any more than banning murder does. If you are unable to empathize with or understand this perspective even if you think its fully wrong, and you have distilled all anti-abortion folks into only Southern, fundamentalist Christians who are literally out to violate women's rights because they get off on that, it is sad but it is not surprising given how divided this country is. Folks on the right do the same thing - view pro abortion folks as blood thirsty / heathen baby killers when in reality most pro abortion folks sincerely believe that it isn't killing a child and it is just a medical procedure and therefore not allowing it is a major rights violation. My point is, have some empathy and understanding for folks from different backgrounds with different life experiences -- although it is easy to fall into the nihilist view that half of your country men are evil and out to get you and trample on your rights, this isn't the actual reality. Most folks on both sides are good human beings who believe what they believe sincerely.

ake this from a fellow pro-choice person who possibly just has different life views / experiences than you -

You must have missed the case about the praying football coach pp. Now prayer is allowed at school events and participants can be forced to pray, as this coach's players were, or deal with the consequences. This is definitely imposing Christianity or other religions in public school. And we still have more decisions to come. Yipppee, American Taliban!

we know exactly what would have happened had that coach been Muslim

[Anonymous]

What about religion in schools now? Are you for that too?

[Anonymous]

I'm completely shocked. As someone who grew up Muslim and is no longer religious, I've always know that separation between Christianity and state was a farce, but at least the symbolically we believed it. Now it's obvious that it's all BS. I look normal, but I am so goddamn, mother effing angry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for. I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs. I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution. I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall. But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.

I’m not shocked at all. But it’s fundamentally anti American to believe that you should impose Christianity on us. It’s literally Amendment numero uno.

Sincerely believing that abortion is infanticide and opposing it for that reason isn't imposing Christianity on anyone, stop making false equivalencies. I know non religious folk, and non Christians that are anti-abortion. There is nothing anti-American about being opposed to abortion on the grounds that one sincerely believes that it is infanticide - according to that perspective banning abortion has nothing to do with violating ones rights any more than banning murder does. If you are unable to empathize with or understand this perspective even if you think its fully wrong, and you have distilled all anti-abortion folks into only Southern, fundamentalist Christians who are literally out to violate women's rights because they get off on that, it is sad but it is not surprising given how divided this country is. Folks on the right do the same thing - view pro abortion folks as blood thirsty / heathen baby killers when in reality most pro abortion folks sincerely believe that it isn't killing a child and it is just a medical procedure and therefore not allowing it is a major rights violation. My point is, have some empathy and understanding for folks from different backgrounds with different life experiences -- although it is easy to fall into the nihilist view that half of your country men are evil and out to get you and trample on your rights, this isn't the actual reality. Most folks on both sides are good human beings who believe what they believe sincerely.

ake this from a fellow pro-choice person who possibly just has different life views / experiences than you -

You must have missed the case about the praying football coach pp. Now prayer is allowed at school events and participants can be forced to pray, as this coach's players were, or deal with the consequences. This is definitely imposing Christianity or other religions in public school. And we still have more decisions to come. Yipppee, American Taliban!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for. I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs. I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution. I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall. But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.

I’m not shocked at all. But it’s fundamentally anti American to believe that you should impose Christianity on us. It’s literally Amendment numero uno.

Sincerely believing that abortion is infanticide and opposing it for that reason isn't imposing Christianity on anyone, stop making false equivalencies. I know non religious folk, and non Christians that are anti-abortion. There is nothing anti-American about being opposed to abortion on the grounds that one sincerely believes that it is infanticide - according to that perspective banning abortion has nothing to do with violating ones rights any more than banning murder does. If you are unable to empathize with or understand this perspective even if you think its fully wrong, and you have distilled all anti-abortion folks into only Southern, fundamentalist Christians who are literally out to violate women's rights because they get off on that, it is sad but it is not surprising given how divided this country is. Folks on the right do the same thing - view pro abortion folks as blood thirsty / heathen baby killers when in reality most pro abortion folks sincerely believe that it isn't killing a child and it is just a medical procedure and therefore not allowing it is a major rights violation. My point is, have some empathy and understanding for folks from different backgrounds with different life experiences -- although it is easy to fall into the nihilist view that half of your country men are evil and out to get you and trample on your rights, this isn't the actual reality. Most folks on both sides are good human beings who believe what they believe sincerely.

ake this from a fellow pro-choice person who possibly just has different life views / experiences than you -

I guess “different life views / experiences” means “has sucked enough right wing kool aid not to scratch the surface.”

If one is sincerely opposed to abortion because one wrongly believes it is the same thing as infanticide, the rest of us are entitled to ask why then do they not give a **it about prenatal care or the environment. Why do they not strenuously and vocally support birth control? Why do they weaken the public schools? Why do they not want businesses to have to pay their workers enough money to live on?

If you remotely scratch the surface of literally any forced birther’s opinion, you find misogyny. That’s it. That’s all it is. Most of that comes from Christianist beliefs, but even more people cling fast to their belief that women are less than and deserve pain and deserve to be controlled and punished. That’s it.

And it is not nihilism to understand that forced birthers - whatever darling, adorable reasoning you want to supply for them - are trampling on women’s rights, because they ARE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for. I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs. I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution. I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall. But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.

I’m not shocked at all. But it’s fundamentally anti American to believe that you should impose Christianity on us. It’s literally Amendment numero uno.

Sincerely believing that abortion is infanticide and opposing it for that reason isn't imposing Christianity on anyone, stop making false equivalencies. I know non religious folk, and non Christians that are anti-abortion. There is nothing anti-American about being opposed to abortion on the grounds that one sincerely believes that it is infanticide - according to that perspective banning abortion has nothing to do with violating ones rights any more than banning murder does. If you are unable to empathize with or understand this perspective even if you think its fully wrong, and you have distilled all anti-abortion folks into only Southern, fundamentalist Christians who are literally out to violate women's rights because they get off on that, it is sad but it is not surprising given how divided this country is. Folks on the right do the same thing - view pro abortion folks as blood thirsty / heathen baby killers when in reality most pro abortion folks sincerely believe that it isn't killing a child and it is just a medical procedure and therefore not allowing it is a major rights violation. My point is, have some empathy and understanding for folks from different backgrounds with different life experiences -- although it is easy to fall into the nihilist view that half of your country men are evil and out to get you and trample on your rights, this isn't the actual reality. Most folks on both sides are good human beings who believe what they believe sincerely.

ake this from a fellow pro-choice person who possibly just has different life views / experiences than you -

You must have missed the case about the praying football coach pp. Now prayer is allowed at school events and participants can be forced to pray, as this coach's players were, or deal with the consequences. This is definitely imposing Christianity or other religions in public school. And we still have more decisions to come. Yipppee, American Taliban!

This is fair and true but “misogynistic white Christian nationalism” doesn’t really have the same shorter syllabic punch of “American Taliban.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for. I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs. I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution. I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall. But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.

I’m not shocked at all. But it’s fundamentally anti American to believe that you should impose Christianity on us. It’s literally Amendment numero uno.

Sincerely believing that abortion is infanticide and opposing it for that reason isn't imposing Christianity on anyone, stop making false equivalencies. I know non religious folk, and non Christians that are anti-abortion. There is nothing anti-American about being opposed to abortion on the grounds that one sincerely believes that it is infanticide - according to that perspective banning abortion has nothing to do with violating ones rights any more than banning murder does. If you are unable to empathize with or understand this perspective even if you think its fully wrong, and you have distilled all anti-abortion folks into only Southern, fundamentalist Christians who are literally out to violate women's rights because they get off on that, it is sad but it is not surprising given how divided this country is. Folks on the right do the same thing - view pro abortion folks as blood thirsty / heathen baby killers when in reality most pro abortion folks sincerely believe that it isn't killing a child and it is just a medical procedure and therefore not allowing it is a major rights violation. My point is, have some empathy and understanding for folks from different backgrounds with different life experiences -- although it is easy to fall into the nihilist view that half of your country men are evil and out to get you and trample on your rights, this isn't the actual reality. Most folks on both sides are good human beings who believe what they believe sincerely.

ake this from a fellow pro-choice person who possibly just has different life views / experiences than you -

The Supreme Court didn’t rule that abortion is murder or even that it is wrong. They may believe that but the ruling is that no Constitutionally protected rights are involved so states are free to ban it or allow it or regulate it as they see fit.