Roe v Wade and TTC

[Anonymous]

This is heartbreaking OP. I am a mother of 3 young girls and am honestly starting to seriously want to move to another country. The negatives in the US are just starting to add up fast, guns, crazy inequality, expensive education...and on and on, the US is just disappointing me, its very sad where we are headed. Does anyone else (Assuming you would have the chance/access/resources) to move to another country, are you now thinking about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

[Anonymous]

Why has no-one mentioned CVS yet?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/chorionic-villus-sampling/about/pac-20393533

This can be carried at 10 to 11 weeks to identify some genetic conditions. There is some risk of miscarriage though, and it wouldn't find every problem.

I was pregnant at age 39 though, and I wasn't offered CVS, so I don't know if it's used regularly in the USA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Here is how the Missouri abortion ban defines abortion. How does termination of an ectopic pregnancy when you can still see flickers in the ultrasound not fall within the scope of part b?

(a) The act of using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or any other means or substance with the intent to destroy the life of an embryo or fetus in his or her mother's womb; or

(b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child;

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Here is how the Missouri abortion ban defines abortion. How does termination of an ectopic pregnancy when you can still see flickers in the ultrasound not fall within the scope of part b?

(a) The act of using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or any other means or substance with the intent to destroy the life of an embryo or fetus in his or her mother's womb; or

(b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child;

If the definition of a living fetus is the presence of a heartbeat, then only the absence of a heartbeat will define death. So, the PP is correct. How can an ectopic be legally removed under Missouri law if the fetus still has a heartbeat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

+1

Cite for each of these states banning abortion. The idiots making these laws aren’t doctors. Most aren’t women. They have no idea how it works. One of these a-holes thought you could move the ectopic pregnancy over to the uterus.

Medical decisions should be left to medical professionals. Not ignorant religious zealots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

+1

Cite for each of these states banning abortion. The idiots making these laws aren’t doctors. Most aren’t women. They have no idea how it works. One of these a-holes thought you could move the ectopic pregnancy over to the uterus.

Medical decisions should be left to medical professionals. Not ignorant religious zealots.

The poster who made that stupid claim about terminating of ectopic pregnancies not being abortions is never going to answer. She will studiously ignore this thread until enough pages have passed since anyone mention ectopic pregnancies that she can pretend not to have seen the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

+1

Cite for each of these states banning abortion. The idiots making these laws aren’t doctors. Most aren’t women. They have no idea how it works. One of these a-holes thought you could move the ectopic pregnancy over to the uterus.

Medical decisions should be left to medical professionals. Not ignorant religious zealots.

The poster who made that stupid claim about terminating of ectopic pregnancies not being abortions is never going to answer. She will studiously ignore this thread until enough pages have passed since anyone mention ectopic pregnancies that she can pretend not to have seen the question.

I’m not that poster, but I will say that *morally,* no one with even a basic understanding of these matters thinks an ectopic pregnancy removal is equivalent to an abortion. You can call it what you like, but they are two different procedures which is why even very prolife institutions condone removal of ectopic pregnancies. I think it was mentioned before, but the principle of double effect justifies ectopic pregnancy removal (or abortion if you like).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

+1

Cite for each of these states banning abortion. The idiots making these laws aren’t doctors. Most aren’t women. They have no idea how it works. One of these a-holes thought you could move the ectopic pregnancy over to the uterus.

Medical decisions should be left to medical professionals. Not ignorant religious zealots.

The poster who made that stupid claim about terminating of ectopic pregnancies not being abortions is never going to answer. She will studiously ignore this thread until enough pages have passed since anyone mention ectopic pregnancies that she can pretend not to have seen the question.

I’m not that poster, but I will say that *morally,* no one with even a basic understanding of these matters thinks an ectopic pregnancy removal is equivalent to an abortion. You can call it what you like, but they are two different procedures which is why even very prolife institutions condone removal of ectopic pregnancies. I think it was mentioned before, but the principle of double effect justifies ectopic pregnancy removal (or abortion if you like).

Do you not understand that the problem is that anti abortion laws do not make these distinctions and women will die because of this? But please continue to pretend you are "pro life"

[Anonymous]

You do the tests as early as possible so you know at 13 -14 weeks if something is very off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in Virginia. While I would hope we don't get something like this I can't help but wonder what happens to me if we find out at 20 weeks of a gross abnormality?

I already know my insurance, military, will not cover abortions for medical reasons. So that's 20K.

That said, not having the option to terminate? Awful. I'm already down about TTC. I've had multiple pregnancy losses so I might be at risk for this situation. This just sucks.

Is a D&C or D&E really $20k? That doesn't sound right.

I agree that this sucks, though.

Can you have a D&C at 20 weeks? I think you have to deliver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

+1

Cite for each of these states banning abortion. The idiots making these laws aren’t doctors. Most aren’t women. They have no idea how it works. One of these a-holes thought you could move the ectopic pregnancy over to the uterus.

Medical decisions should be left to medical professionals. Not ignorant religious zealots.

The poster who made that stupid claim about terminating of ectopic pregnancies not being abortions is never going to answer. She will studiously ignore this thread until enough pages have passed since anyone mention ectopic pregnancies that she can pretend not to have seen the question.

They will spout this nonsense until they or one of their daughters dies..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

+1

Cite for each of these states banning abortion. The idiots making these laws aren’t doctors. Most aren’t women. They have no idea how it works. One of these a-holes thought you could move the ectopic pregnancy over to the uterus.

Medical decisions should be left to medical professionals. Not ignorant religious zealots.

The poster who made that stupid claim about terminating of ectopic pregnancies not being abortions is never going to answer. She will studiously ignore this thread until enough pages have passed since anyone mention ectopic pregnancies that she can pretend not to have seen the question.

I’m not that poster, but I will say that *morally,* no one with even a basic understanding of these matters thinks an ectopic pregnancy removal is equivalent to an abortion. You can call it what you like, but they are two different procedures which is why even very prolife institutions condone removal of ectopic pregnancies. I think it was mentioned before, but the principle of double effect justifies ectopic pregnancy removal (or abortion if you like).

Do you not understand that the problem is that anti abortion laws do not make these distinctions and women will die because of this? But please continue to pretend you are "pro life"

That’s dramatic. If the law doesn’t have an exception for an ectopic pregnancy it is incomplete and/or misguided. Pretty simple. But the prolife world has long recognized the legitimacy of ending ectopic pregnancies.