Roe v Wade and TTC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

Oh also - that Kansas AG opinion was about a BILL, not an enacted law. Totally different scenario. Keep showing your ignorance of the legal system, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

I never "claimed authority." I never claimed they "overrule law." Stop being an idiot.

An elected official should ask the AG for an opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

Oh also - that Kansas AG opinion was about a BILL, not an enacted law. Totally different scenario. Keep showing your ignorance of the legal system, though.

Um, people ask opinions about enacted laws too. Are you even a lawyer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

I never "claimed authority." I never claimed they "overrule law." Stop being an idiot.

An elected official should ask the AG for an opinion.

You’re just engaged in nonsense now. Again, you cannot pull that on educated DC area women. We know that “just ask the AG for an opinion!” is gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

Oh also - that Kansas AG opinion was about a BILL, not an enacted law. Totally different scenario. Keep showing your ignorance of the legal system, though.

Um, people ask opinions about enacted laws too. Are you even a lawyer?

The point is, asking the AG for an opinion on a bill has zero to do with the impact of existing forced birth laws in several states. But again - I am game to hear your argument, with statutory and case citations, showing how an AG opinion would bind a local prosecutor, as applied to the facts of a hospital or doctor’s decisionmaking in several different fact patterns encompassing high risk pregnancies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

I never "claimed authority." I never claimed they "overrule law." Stop being an idiot.

An elected official should ask the AG for an opinion.

You’re just engaged in nonsense now. Again, you cannot pull that on educated DC area women. We know that “just ask the AG for an opinion!” is gaslighting.

I guess you are an AG Opinion denier. Well, the Kansas elected officials request for an AG Opinion was a mere 2 sentences long. The AG issued an opinion for ectopic pregnancies. Here is the opinion request if anyone in Missouri needs ideas. https://bit.ly/3yW6eHI

[Anonymous]

Ugh. I have family there. I can get this done myself just because you are so annoying. While you do zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

+1

Cite for each of these states banning abortion. The idiots making these laws aren’t doctors. Most aren’t women. They have no idea how it works. One of these a-holes thought you could move the ectopic pregnancy over to the uterus.

Medical decisions should be left to medical professionals. Not ignorant religious zealots.

The poster who made that stupid claim about terminating of ectopic pregnancies not being abortions is never going to answer. She will studiously ignore this thread until enough pages have passed since anyone mention ectopic pregnancies that she can pretend not to have seen the question.

I’m not that poster, but I will say that *morally,* no one with even a basic understanding of these matters thinks an ectopic pregnancy removal is equivalent to an abortion. You can call it what you like, but they are two different procedures which is why even very prolife institutions condone removal of ectopic pregnancies. I think it was mentioned before, but the principle of double effect justifies ectopic pregnancy removal (or abortion if you like).

Do you not understand that the problem is that anti abortion laws do not make these distinctions and women will die because of this? But please continue to pretend you are "pro life"

That’s dramatic. If the law doesn’t have an exception for an ectopic pregnancy it is incomplete and/or misguided. Pretty simple. But the prolife world has long recognized the legitimacy of ending ectopic pregnancies.

But the movement doesn’t care enough about allowing women to safely terminate ectopic pregnancies to write those exceptions into anti-abortion legislation. Maybe they’re just too ignorant about the issue to understand what they’re doing (in which case they shouldn’t be drafting legislation in the first place), or maybe it was intentional, because they are more worried about inadvertently opening the door further by making an exception for ectopic pregnancies than they are about the deaths and permanent injuries that will occur if women cannot safely terminate ectopic pregnancies.

Which *states* specifically, don’t allow for ectopic pregnancy removal? Because there’s been a lot of lying going on….

Name one state that has an explicit exception abortion in the case for ectopic pregnancy, and cite to the statutory provision providing the explicit exception. Go for it, I dare you. You wouldn’t want anyone to think you’re lying, right?

I asked which states prohibit ectopic pregnancy removal, and instead of citing ONE, you angrily posed another.
But challenge accepted. TEXAS, defines abortion in The Texas Health and Safety Code, Chapter 245.002. In§(1)(C) it explicitly says that "An act is not an abortion is done with the intent to: remove an ectopic pregnancy" ... an abortion explicitly not removal of a dead child or if it saves or preserves the life of the unborn child.
I now dare you to name a state that explicitly bans ectopic pregnancy. Or a pro-life organization that calls for ectopic pregnancy removal to be banned.

Cool. Now find the exception in Missouri.

Sure. The poster above cited Missouri's exception and then went on to confusedly explain how it wasn't exception -basically because it didn't explicitly mention ectopic pregnancy as an exception. But since the ENTIRE pro-life community sees it as an exception, she went on to claim that Missouri's exception wasn't really an exception because an ectopic pregnancy diagnosis is "medically subjective." um...
Ectopic pregnancies are diagnosed through a combination of HCG tests and transvaginal ultrasounds. It will show up as a mass in the ovary, tube, or cervix and HCG levels will be high enough to indicate a pregnancy. There also won't be an embryo where it is supposed to be. The tube doesn't need to have ruptured for the diagnosis to be made. Once the diagnosis is made, it is universally considered a medical emergency -yes, even in Missouri. No one will deny that the embryo is non-viable and that the woman's life and bodily health are at serious risk. Incidentally, this is why you have, and never will, see a prosecution for an ectopic pregnancy removal...even in Missouri. Or find a pro-life organization advocating to make it illegal. This is also why even the Catholic bishops have emphasized that Catholic Hospitals that don't perform abortions are permitted to perform ectopic pregnancy (and yes, it is permitted to treat with methrotrexate; practitioners, however, are not forced to do so if it violates their individual conscience).

So, practitioners are not forced to use Methotrexate to abort an ectopic pregnancy if it violates their individual conscience. Let's just hope that when a woman goes to an ER in a catholic hospital with an ectopic pregnancy, the ER doctors and the pharmacist don't refuse to prescribe a life-saving drug because of their individual conscience.

This PP is lying about Catholic hospitals. There are absolutely Catholic hospitals that prohibit the use of methotrexate. This same policy will likely be implemented in states that only permit the “removal” of an ectopic pregnancy.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21353977/

Ladies of DCUM TTC: sorry to say, but you probably should avoid forced birth states until safetly closer to the 2nd tri. And don’t go to Georgetown ER if you have abdominal pain.

This hits really close to home for me because I happened to be taken to Georgetown ER for a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. This was several years ago, but I’m grateful to report that I received a lifesaving emergency surgery. I shudder to think of anyone being refused that kind of care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Here is how the Missouri abortion ban defines abortion. How does termination of an ectopic pregnancy when you can still see flickers in the ultrasound not fall within the scope of part b?

(a) The act of using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or any other means or substance with the intent to destroy the life of an embryo or fetus in his or her mother's womb; or

(b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child;

If the definition of a living fetus is the presence of a heartbeat, then only the absence of a heartbeat will define death. So, the PP is correct. How can an ectopic be legally removed under Missouri law if the fetus still has a heartbeat?

I think I would argue that an ectopic pregnancy is not a pregnancy within the meaning of the law. Or, notwithstanding the flickers on an US, it is rssentially “dead” within the meaning of part B because it literally has no prospect for life. Absurd we have to think of these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You go to Maryland. And count yourself lucky you only have to travel that far.

This. Abortion will NOT be outlawed in Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

I never "claimed authority." I never claimed they "overrule law." Stop being an idiot.

An elected official should ask the AG for an opinion.

You’re just engaged in nonsense now. Again, you cannot pull that on educated DC area women. We know that “just ask the AG for an opinion!” is gaslighting.

I think this is a teen troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

I never "claimed authority." I never claimed they "overrule law." Stop being an idiot.

An elected official should ask the AG for an opinion.

You’re just engaged in nonsense now. Again, you cannot pull that on educated DC area women. We know that “just ask the AG for an opinion!” is gaslighting.

I guess you are an AG Opinion denier. Well, the Kansas elected officials request for an AG Opinion was a mere 2 sentences long. The AG issued an opinion for ectopic pregnancies. Here is the opinion request if anyone in Missouri needs ideas. https://bit.ly/3yW6eHI

Ok now please explain, with citations, the legal significance of a Missouri AG opinion on the actions of local prosecutors, interpretation of the law by judges, and risk assessment for hospitals and doctors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

I never "claimed authority." I never claimed they "overrule law." Stop being an idiot.

An elected official should ask the AG for an opinion.

You’re just engaged in nonsense now. Again, you cannot pull that on educated DC area women. We know that “just ask the AG for an opinion!” is gaslighting.

I think this is a teen troll.

Sadly it is not. The brightest lights of the forced-birth movement are all over the media claiming “it’s the doctor’s fault for misinterpreting the law! the AG can clear everything up!” Gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

I never "claimed authority." I never claimed they "overrule law." Stop being an idiot.

An elected official should ask the AG for an opinion.

You’re just engaged in nonsense now. Again, you cannot pull that on educated DC area women. We know that “just ask the AG for an opinion!” is gaslighting.

I think this is a teen troll.

Sadly it is not. The brightest lights of the forced-birth movement are all over the media claiming “it’s the doctor’s fault for misinterpreting the law! the AG can clear everything up!” Gaslighting.

You clearly are an AG opinion denier, and do not want something to be done, so just go wallow in your feigned ignorant misery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should also worry about an incomplete miscarriage or an eptopic pregnancy.

Agreed. At the end of the day - zero question about it - doctors will be chilled from helping women in all kinds of dire situations. I would not count on VA doctors to be prepared to help you.

I have been in prolife circles my whole life. No one thinks an ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage is an abortion. The principle of double effect.

I don't see how it's an abortion either. It can't grow into a full term baby.

My insurance classes both as abortions.

DP. Yes, it does. "Abortion" is a medical term. It is going to be applied as a medical term when interpreting the law.

I don't understand why there are people out there who feel justified in redefining a medical term and then acting indignant when the law isn't enforced according to their private definitions. That isn't the way the law works.

And they don't get that the numbers of all those abortions each year cited to rile them up are the stats gathered by the medical definition. They aren't just "the ones decent people like me wouldn't agree with." It's so bizarre.

Have you ever read a - ANY?? - law?? you sound like a high schooler. Each state has a defined statement for what constitutes abortion (or any subject matter in which they are legislating). Ectopic pregnancies are not considered an abortion for legal purposes in any state. Just because a hospital calls something one thing doesn’t mean it translates in the legal sense. Good god read a book.

Please cite to the state laws that have explicit definitions of abortion that specifically exclude termination of an ectopic pregnancy.

Missouri - An "abortion" is defined by statute as involving an embryo or fetus "IN THE WOMB" (= uterus).
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/PageSelect.aspx?section=188.015&bid=47547&hl=

Texas - "An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to: . .
remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm

Louisiana - I'm not sure if a trigger ban included a repeal of this definition of an abortion in their statutes, but at least their law used to state: "[It] is not an abortion if done with the intent to: . . . remove an ectopic pregnancy." https://legis.la.gov/legis/Law.aspx?d=965002

Missouri: part 1(b) of the definition extends to ANY termination:

“ (b) The intentional termination of the pregnancy of a mother by using or prescribing any instrument, device, medicine, drug, or other means or substance with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth or to remove a dead unborn child.”

TX and LA: have the problematic “removal” language which likely bans methotrexate and requires women to have major surgery & an organ removed, instead of a simple shot.

Oh I missed that in Missouri's - has 2 different definitions, weird! Well, then an elected official needs to request an AG Opinion asap as to whether ectopic pregnancy constitutes medical emergency where mothers life in jeopardy

No. An “AG’s opinion” does not settle what the law is and cannot address all the different factual scenarios that could arise. The Missouri AG also does not control what local prosecutors do, or who grand juries may indict.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=56.770

Stop playing dumb. Anyone who genuinely cares would request an AG Opinion. Kansas AG did. https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/582583194/ag-derek-schmidt-medical-treatment-for-ectopic-pregnancy-fetal-demise-not-abortion-so-not-affected-by-value-them-both-amendment

Or, outraged folks can do nothing and stomp their feet on DCUM like you are. That's not helpful.

Or, the state legislature can change the law.

Yes, the AG should issue opinions. No, an AG opinion cannot overrule the plain language of a law. And of course an AG that cared could issue an opinion sua sponte, but they are not.

The AG thing is 1 part ignorance, 2 parts gaslighting. AGs do not have the authority you are claiming.

I never "claimed authority." I never claimed they "overrule law." Stop being an idiot.

An elected official should ask the AG for an opinion.

You’re just engaged in nonsense now. Again, you cannot pull that on educated DC area women. We know that “just ask the AG for an opinion!” is gaslighting.

I guess you are an AG Opinion denier. Well, the Kansas elected officials request for an AG Opinion was a mere 2 sentences long. The AG issued an opinion for ectopic pregnancies. Here is the opinion request if anyone in Missouri needs ideas. https://bit.ly/3yW6eHI

Ok now please explain, with citations, the legal significance of a Missouri AG opinion on the actions of local prosecutors, interpretation of the law by judges, and risk assessment for hospitals and doctors.

No. You don't want action. You just want to argue. I'm looking for action - activists. Step aside