SRO lite coming back to MCPS as "Community Engagement Officer " CEOs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about we need to force parents to attend school with their kids when their kids are having behavior problems to let the parents deal with it?

But I'm pretty sure those parents don't care what their kids do and wouldn't bother to show up.

Then you give the parents two choices, show up or your kid is expelled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about we need to force parents to attend school with their kids when their kids are having behavior problems to let the parents deal with it?

But I'm pretty sure those parents don't care what their kids do and wouldn't bother to show up.

Then you give the parents two choices, show up or your kid is expelled.

I'm a fan of this approach. There was a case in the news where a dad sat in class with his HSer kid who was being rude and obnoxious in the class. Kid was so embarrassed he stopped acting up.

HOWEVER, there are many parents who cannot take time off to do this. IMO, those are the kids who would benefit from super small class sizes, and more wrap around services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They won't be in uniform, and MCPS/School will have a say in who the CEO for the school is.

https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1032627

About time. I think MCPS played this one right. They listened to both sides.

I just don't see the need for these unnecessary expenses.

Right, its better to have students die. Funeral costs are cheaper.

SROs have never prevented a death.

Yes they have.

No. They haven’t.

Yes they have.

OP here.. there have been a few cases where an SRO intervened. Did that prevent a death? That can't be determined since that's a reality that never happened. Causation vs correlation.

However, we can say that there have been an uptick in violence, and that the shooting incident at Macgruder was handled very very poorly by untrained staff. They did not recognize a bullet wound, and even when they did, it took a while to call the cops and put the school on lockdown. Having a cop in the school would've cut the response time down by a lot, IMO. A cop is trained to recognize and assess threats; staff are not and honestly, nor should they. They have enough to do with keeping unruly kidsin check and making sure kids are being educated. I don't want their focus to be on threat assessment. Their focus should be on educating our kids.

Leave the threat assessment and dealing with weapon related incidents to the cops. That's what they are trained for, and that's what they are paid to deal with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about we need to force parents to attend school with their kids when their kids are having behavior problems to let the parents deal with it?

Deflection to "its the parents fault and therefore it'd the parents responsibility " is immature and unhelpful.

The fault may be "patenting " but the fault may also be genetic psychiatric disorder, poverty. Ignorance etc. The fault is absolutely irrelevant.

The impact is crucial. The impact of violent students effects all other students and staffing. Mitigation of that impact is squarely and undeniably the responsibility of the Board of Education including McKnight and Wolff

This is ironic that after all the "equity" discussions to remove police from schools, they're now back in again part-time? My guess is Wolff must be especially pissed.

It's a stupid model anyway since there is no guarantee that the CEO will just happen to be on-site exactly when something happens, or they will get into trouble if something does happen and someone asks "where was the CEO?" I can't imagine the police would want to be placed in this position, so unless it's rammed down their throats, I can't see them enjoying this model.

This also means that they will need to re-negotiate the SRO MOU with all the police departments all over again? A Community Engagement Officer wouldn't be covered under the current police agreement.

Also, are CEO's spending equal time at all schools, or are they "focused" on Title I's? If the latter, again the open themselves up to criticism that it's race-biased.

I see this as yet another failed policy in the making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They won't be in uniform, and MCPS/School will have a say in who the CEO for the school is.

https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1032627

About time. I think MCPS played this one right. They listened to both sides.

I just don't see the need for these unnecessary expenses.

Right, its better to have students die. Funeral costs are cheaper.

SROs have never prevented a death.

Yes they have.

No. They haven’t.

Yes they have.

OP here.. there have been a few cases where an SRO intervened. Did that prevent a death? That can't be determined since that's a reality that never happened. Causation vs correlation.

However, we can say that there have been an uptick in violence, and that the shooting incident at Macgruder was handled very very poorly by untrained staff. They did not recognize a bullet wound, and even when they did, it took a while to call the cops and put the school on lockdown. Having a cop in the school would've cut the response time down by a lot, IMO. A cop is trained to recognize and assess threats; staff are not and honestly, nor should they. They have enough to do with keeping unruly kidsin check and making sure kids are being educated. I don't want their focus to be on threat assessment. Their focus should be on educating our kids.

Leave the threat assessment and dealing with weapon related incidents to the cops. That's what they are trained for, and that's what they are paid to deal with.

We can say COVID has an uptick in violence in the whole world and self harm in teens. We have no evidence that SROs prevent crime.

Cops are not trained to assess threat they are trained to respond to a crime.. after the fact. Cops do not prevent crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They won't be in uniform, and MCPS/School will have a say in who the CEO for the school is.

https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1032627

About time. I think MCPS played this one right. They listened to both sides.

I just don't see the need for these unnecessary expenses.

Right, its better to have students die. Funeral costs are cheaper.

SROs have never prevented a death.

Yes they have.

No. They haven’t.

Yes they have.

OP here.. there have been a few cases where an SRO intervened. Did that prevent a death? That can't be determined since that's a reality that never happened. Causation vs correlation.

However, we can say that there have been an uptick in violence, and that the shooting incident at Macgruder was handled very very poorly by untrained staff. They did not recognize a bullet wound, and even when they did, it took a while to call the cops and put the school on lockdown. Having a cop in the school would've cut the response time down by a lot, IMO. A cop is trained to recognize and assess threats; staff are not and honestly, nor should they. They have enough to do with keeping unruly kidsin check and making sure kids are being educated. I don't want their focus to be on threat assessment. Their focus should be on educating our kids.

Leave the threat assessment and dealing with weapon related incidents to the cops. That's what they are trained for, and that's what they are paid to deal with.

We can say COVID has an uptick in violence in the whole world and self harm in teens. We have no evidence that SROs prevent crime.

Cops are not trained to assess threat they are trained to respond to a crime.. after the fact. Cops do not prevent crime.

Yes, mental health issues have gone up due to covid. We are seeing that play out in our schools.

Cops are more trained to assess risk than a security guard or admin staff.

What is your solution to the uptick in violence in our schools? More kumbaya and give them a hug?

The time that is supposed to be allotted for "mental health" awareness in schools is a joke. None of the kids take it seriously. We can have more mental health workers AND CEOs. It's not either/or. It can be both, and it should be. IMO, that's a wrap around service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They won't be in uniform, and MCPS/School will have a say in who the CEO for the school is.

https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1032627

About time. I think MCPS played this one right. They listened to both sides.

I just don't see the need for these unnecessary expenses.

Right, its better to have students die. Funeral costs are cheaper.

SROs have never prevented a death.

Yes they have.

No. They haven’t.

Yes they have.

OP here.. there have been a few cases where an SRO intervened. Did that prevent a death? That can't be determined since that's a reality that never happened. Causation vs correlation.

However, we can say that there have been an uptick in violence, and that the shooting incident at Macgruder was handled very very poorly by untrained staff. They did not recognize a bullet wound, and even when they did, it took a while to call the cops and put the school on lockdown. Having a cop in the school would've cut the response time down by a lot, IMO. A cop is trained to recognize and assess threats; staff are not and honestly, nor should they. They have enough to do with keeping unruly kidsin check and making sure kids are being educated. I don't want their focus to be on threat assessment. Their focus should be on educating our kids.

Leave the threat assessment and dealing with weapon related incidents to the cops. That's what they are trained for, and that's what they are paid to deal with.

We can say COVID has an uptick in violence in the whole world and self harm in teens. We have no evidence that SROs prevent crime.

Cops are not trained to assess threat they are trained to respond to a crime.. after the fact. Cops do not prevent crime.

We overwhelming evidence that police prevent crime.

We also have evidence that SROs prevent crime. It depends on program design, adherence to policy, transparency, and accountability. Montgomery County's program was a model program, and Elrich removed the preventive effect and left the arrests. And guess what? There are still big racial disparities in the school arrests this year. Even without cops in schools.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Testing-the-School%E2%80%90to%E2%80%90Prison-Pipeline-Owens/b8d0884a5b304a29a71a2b13e2ce68cec2c9cd65

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They won't be in uniform, and MCPS/School will have a say in who the CEO for the school is.

https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1032627

About time. I think MCPS played this one right. They listened to both sides.

I just don't see the need for these unnecessary expenses.

Right, its better to have students die. Funeral costs are cheaper.

SROs have never prevented a death.

Yes they have.

No. They haven’t.

Yes they have.

OP here.. there have been a few cases where an SRO intervened. Did that prevent a death? That can't be determined since that's a reality that never happened. Causation vs correlation.

However, we can say that there have been an uptick in violence, and that the shooting incident at Macgruder was handled very very poorly by untrained staff. They did not recognize a bullet wound, and even when they did, it took a while to call the cops and put the school on lockdown. Having a cop in the school would've cut the response time down by a lot, IMO. A cop is trained to recognize and assess threats; staff are not and honestly, nor should they. They have enough to do with keeping unruly kidsin check and making sure kids are being educated. I don't want their focus to be on threat assessment. Their focus should be on educating our kids.

Leave the threat assessment and dealing with weapon related incidents to the cops. That's what they are trained for, and that's what they are paid to deal with.

We can say COVID has an uptick in violence in the whole world and self harm in teens. We have no evidence that SROs prevent crime.

Cops are not trained to assess threat they are trained to respond to a crime.. after the fact. Cops do not prevent crime.

We overwhelming evidence that police prevent crime.

We also have evidence that SROs prevent crime. It depends on program design, adherence to policy, transparency, and accountability. Montgomery County's program was a model program, and Elrich removed the preventive effect and left the arrests. And guess what? There are still big racial disparities in the school arrests this year. Even without cops in schools.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Testing-the-School%E2%80%90to%E2%80%90Prison-Pipeline-Owens/b8d0884a5b304a29a71a2b13e2ce68cec2c9cd65

The article says the opposite of what you think it says.

[Anonymous]

What's interesting about the article is that it states that the school to prison pipeline is defined as using law enforcement *instead of discipline * to deal with problems.

What's clear is Montgomery county does not use discipline at all. It uses restorative justice- an unproven method. There is no study YET to say the school to prison pipeline can also be defined as using restorative justice *instead of discipline" to deal with problems.

It's is enormously clear that restorative justice does not prevent students from further offending and from eventually ending up in worse legal trouble.

Wolff and tye rer of this board will be remembered for making vulnerable kids the test subjects for a failed experiment that resulted in long term damage.

Also. *because * schools do not use discipline effectively anymore, parents of victims will be forced to call the police directly instead of relying on SROs.

And finally- the school to prison pipeline now pulls victims into the pipeline who end up maimed and dead.
You haven't heard any updates about the Magruder victim for a reason.
And Wolff is to blame for the next one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about we need to force parents to attend school with their kids when their kids are having behavior problems to let the parents deal with it?

But I'm pretty sure those parents don't care what their kids do and wouldn't bother to show up.

Then you give the parents two choices, show up or your kid is expelled.

I hate these braindead suggestions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's interesting about the article is that it states that the school to prison pipeline is defined as using law enforcement *instead of discipline * to deal with problems.

What's clear is Montgomery county does not use discipline at all. It uses restorative justice- an unproven method. There is no study YET to say the school to prison pipeline can also be defined as using restorative justice *instead of discipline" to deal with problems.

It's is enormously clear that restorative justice does not prevent students from further offending and from eventually ending up in worse legal trouble.

Wolff and tye rer of this board will be remembered for making vulnerable kids the test subjects for a failed experiment that resulted in long term damage.

Also. *because * schools do not use discipline effectively anymore, parents of victims will be forced to call the police directly instead of relying on SROs.

And finally- the school to prison pipeline now pulls victims into the pipeline who end up maimed and dead.
You haven't heard any updates about the Magruder victim for a reason.
And Wolff is to blame for the next one.

Bring back the paddle and the switch! That'll learn em!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They won't be in uniform, and MCPS/School will have a say in who the CEO for the school is.

https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1032627

About time. I think MCPS played this one right. They listened to both sides.

I just don't see the need for these unnecessary expenses.

Right, its better to have students die. Funeral costs are cheaper.

SROs have never prevented a death.

Yes they have.

No. They haven’t.

Yes they have.

OP here.. there have been a few cases where an SRO intervened. Did that prevent a death? That can't be determined since that's a reality that never happened. Causation vs correlation.

However, we can say that there have been an uptick in violence, and that the shooting incident at Macgruder was handled very very poorly by untrained staff. They did not recognize a bullet wound, and even when they did, it took a while to call the cops and put the school on lockdown. Having a cop in the school would've cut the response time down by a lot, IMO. A cop is trained to recognize and assess threats; staff are not and honestly, nor should they. They have enough to do with keeping unruly kidsin check and making sure kids are being educated. I don't want their focus to be on threat assessment. Their focus should be on educating our kids.

Leave the threat assessment and dealing with weapon related incidents to the cops. That's what they are trained for, and that's what they are paid to deal with.

We can say COVID has an uptick in violence in the whole world and self harm in teens. We have no evidence that SROs prevent crime.

Cops are not trained to assess threat they are trained to respond to a crime.. after the fact. Cops do not prevent crime.

Yes, mental health issues have gone up due to covid. We are seeing that play out in our schools.

Cops are more trained to assess risk than a security guard or admin staff.

What is your solution to the uptick in violence in our schools? More kumbaya and give them a hug?

The time that is supposed to be allotted for "mental health" awareness in schools is a joke. None of the kids take it seriously. We can have more mental health workers AND CEOs. It's not either/or. It can be both, and it should be. IMO, that's a wrap around service.

I haven't seen any evidence that there is an uptick. I've seen people hyping this more than normal but it seems the same as every other year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat delinquents need to be removed from the school. There are a handful of kids at my dd's school that are always causing trouble.
take these kids and educate them elsewhere. plenty of empty former school buildings to set this up.

This has nothing to do with SRO's

No, but the logic is you kick them out and schools will be safer.

Who decides, based on what premise, that a kid gets kicked out? And, kicked out, what happens then?

DP, obviously MCPS leadership has to make the call. They can bring back the alternative schools.

Personally, I think kids 16+ who have numerous behaviorial issues should be sent to some type of military school paid for by the taxpayers.

They get discipline and learn a trade.

Who refers the kid to MCPS leadership? I see so many opportunities for some schools to refer few and other schools to refer many, even if the level of bad behaviors are similar.

[Anonymous]

Remember when....

[Anonymous]

Eeery.... the similar school safety threads start around same day each year