Spiritual vs Religious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How bizarre to think they can speak for all religious people.

100% true.

That statement applies to you also, correct?

Unlike you, I actually know a lot of religious people.

So rather than answer the question, you went right to insults and assumptions?

You may not be aware of this, but you are an unpleasant person.

Now answer the question. That statement applies to you also, right?

Excuse me, but you’re insulting me, calling me unpleasant and twisting my post. Where is the insult in my post?

If you hang out with lots of religious people, by all means say so. That doesn’t seem likely, though.

Which brings us back to: you can’t attribute motives to people you don’t know. Whether that’s the “coolness” of saying you’re spiritual or peoples’ motives for attending church.

The insult is clear, the non-sequitur insinuation that I don’t know any religious people and don’t know what I am talking about. Both are very false.

You did that because you did not want to answer the question, and you still haven’t.

BTW, I am NOT the person you were debating the other points with, just someone reading who wanted to point out the irony.

It’s absolutely germane to ask whether you know religious people. You’re an atheist who is trying to draw broad conclusions about religious people. Calling this a non-sequitur is baffling and an insult in its own right.

Then, instead of responding directly to the post by saying that you do in fact know religious people, you went straight to calling someone “unpleasant”. Pat yourself on the back?

It would be helpful if you could provide some examples, from the religious people you know, about (a) how they only attend because they want community, and (b) they describe themselves as spiritual instead of religious because they know the word religious is uncool. TIA.

Do you even read the posts you respond to?

I repeat: I am not the person making the other claims, just someone who found the post quoted at the top of this one very ironic.

Does that statement apply to you also?

1. I know many Jews and Christians and none of them—not a single one—has said to me that they think the word “religious” is uncool or that they’re

2. I call myself religious.

3. Stop with the insults already, the only person you’re making look bad is yourself. I’ll put my reading comprehension up against yours any day.

OK, your turn AND the turn of the mystery atheist who posted her theories but doesn’t want to answer any questions about them.
A. Why do you think people attend church just for community when they have so many other options, like kids’ schools and sports and their own hobbies?

B. Why do you think religious people think calling themselves that is “uncool.”

C. Have you talked to multiple people (anecdotes are useless) to back up assertions A or B?

[Anonymous]

I associate this phrase with Persian/Iranian Americans who believe in some sort of higher power, but want to dissociate themselves from the horrors of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Some people I know still have an affiliation with Islam, others have “New Age” beliefs, have converted to Buddhism, are very interested in Iran’s historic faith of Zoroastrianism (although conversion is generally not possible), etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How bizarre to think they can speak for all religious people.

100% true.

That statement applies to you also, correct?

Unlike you, I actually know a lot of religious people.

So rather than answer the question, you went right to insults and assumptions?

You may not be aware of this, but you are an unpleasant person.

Now answer the question. That statement applies to you also, right?

Excuse me, but you’re insulting me, calling me unpleasant and twisting my post. Where is the insult in my post?

If you hang out with lots of religious people, by all means say so. That doesn’t seem likely, though.

Which brings us back to: you can’t attribute motives to people you don’t know. Whether that’s the “coolness” of saying you’re spiritual or peoples’ motives for attending church.

The insult is clear, the non-sequitur insinuation that I don’t know any religious people and don’t know what I am talking about. Both are very false.

You did that because you did not want to answer the question, and you still haven’t.

BTW, I am NOT the person you were debating the other points with, just someone reading who wanted to point out the irony.

It’s absolutely germane to ask whether you know religious people. You’re an atheist who is trying to draw broad conclusions about religious people. Calling this a non-sequitur is baffling and an insult in its own right.

Then, instead of responding directly to the post by saying that you do in fact know religious people, you went straight to calling someone “unpleasant”. Pat yourself on the back?

It would be helpful if you could provide some examples, from the religious people you know, about (a) how they only attend because they want community, and (b) they describe themselves as spiritual instead of religious because they know the word religious is uncool. TIA.

Do you even read the posts you respond to?

I repeat: I am not the person making the other claims, just someone who found the post quoted at the top of this one very ironic.

Does that statement apply to you also?

1. I know many Jews and Christians and none of them—not a single one—has said to me that they think the word “religious” is uncool or that they’re

2. I call myself religious.

3. Stop with the insults already, the only person you’re making look bad is yourself. I’ll put my reading comprehension up against yours any day.

OK, your turn AND the turn of the mystery atheist who posted her theories but doesn’t want to answer any questions about them.
A. Why do you think people attend church just for community when they have so many other options, like kids’ schools and sports and their own hobbies?

B. Why do you think religious people think calling themselves that is “uncool.”

C. Have you talked to multiple people (anecdotes are useless) to back up assertions A or B?

So odd the way the op never returns to the threads they create to answer questions and read responses…but another very concerned poster always chimes in to defend missing op and call those answering (missing) op’s questions rude!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How bizarre to think they can speak for all religious people.

100% true.

That statement applies to you also, correct?

Unlike you, I actually know a lot of religious people.

So rather than answer the question, you went right to insults and assumptions?

You may not be aware of this, but you are an unpleasant person.

Now answer the question. That statement applies to you also, right?

Excuse me, but you’re insulting me, calling me unpleasant and twisting my post. Where is the insult in my post?

If you hang out with lots of religious people, by all means say so. That doesn’t seem likely, though.

Which brings us back to: you can’t attribute motives to people you don’t know. Whether that’s the “coolness” of saying you’re spiritual or peoples’ motives for attending church.

The insult is clear, the non-sequitur insinuation that I don’t know any religious people and don’t know what I am talking about. Both are very false.

You did that because you did not want to answer the question, and you still haven’t.

BTW, I am NOT the person you were debating the other points with, just someone reading who wanted to point out the irony.

It’s absolutely germane to ask whether you know religious people. You’re an atheist who is trying to draw broad conclusions about religious people. Calling this a non-sequitur is baffling and an insult in its own right.

Then, instead of responding directly to the post by saying that you do in fact know religious people, you went straight to calling someone “unpleasant”. Pat yourself on the back?

It would be helpful if you could provide some examples, from the religious people you know, about (a) how they only attend because they want community, and (b) they describe themselves as spiritual instead of religious because they know the word religious is uncool. TIA.

Do you even read the posts you respond to?

I repeat: I am not the person making the other claims, just someone who found the post quoted at the top of this one very ironic.

Does that statement apply to you also?

1. I know many Jews and Christians and none of them—not a single one—has said to me that they think the word “religious” is uncool or that they’re

2. I call myself religious.

3. Stop with the insults already, the only person you’re making look bad is yourself. I’ll put my reading comprehension up against yours any day.

OK, your turn AND the turn of the mystery atheist who posted her theories but doesn’t want to answer any questions about them.
A. Why do you think people attend church just for community when they have so many other options, like kids’ schools and sports and their own hobbies?

B. Why do you think religious people think calling themselves that is “uncool.”

C. Have you talked to multiple people (anecdotes are useless) to back up assertions A or B?

So odd the way the op never returns to the threads they create to answer questions and read responses…but another very concerned poster always chimes in to defend missing op and call those answering (missing) op’s questions rude!

Yes, it’s definitely hard to understand this pattern, although it’s easy to see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How bizarre to think they can speak for all religious people.

100% true.

That statement applies to you also, correct?

Unlike you, I actually know a lot of religious people.

So rather than answer the question, you went right to insults and assumptions?

You may not be aware of this, but you are an unpleasant person.

Now answer the question. That statement applies to you also, right?

Excuse me, but you’re insulting me, calling me unpleasant and twisting my post. Where is the insult in my post?

If you hang out with lots of religious people, by all means say so. That doesn’t seem likely, though.

Which brings us back to: you can’t attribute motives to people you don’t know. Whether that’s the “coolness” of saying you’re spiritual or peoples’ motives for attending church.

The insult is clear, the non-sequitur insinuation that I don’t know any religious people and don’t know what I am talking about. Both are very false.

You did that because you did not want to answer the question, and you still haven’t.

BTW, I am NOT the person you were debating the other points with, just someone reading who wanted to point out the irony.

It’s absolutely germane to ask whether you know religious people. You’re an atheist who is trying to draw broad conclusions about religious people. Calling this a non-sequitur is baffling and an insult in its own right.

Then, instead of responding directly to the post by saying that you do in fact know religious people, you went straight to calling someone “unpleasant”. Pat yourself on the back?

It would be helpful if you could provide some examples, from the religious people you know, about (a) how they only attend because they want community, and (b) they describe themselves as spiritual instead of religious because they know the word religious is uncool. TIA.

Do you even read the posts you respond to?

I repeat: I am not the person making the other claims, just someone who found the post quoted at the top of this one very ironic.

Does that statement apply to you also?

1. I know many Jews and Christians and none of them—not a single one—has said to me that they think the word “religious” is uncool or that they’re

2. I call myself religious.

3. Stop with the insults already, the only person you’re making look bad is yourself. I’ll put my reading comprehension up against yours any day.

OK, your turn AND the turn of the mystery atheist who posted her theories but doesn’t want to answer any questions about them.
A. Why do you think people attend church just for community when they have so many other options, like kids’ schools and sports and their own hobbies?

B. Why do you think religious people think calling themselves that is “uncool.”

C. Have you talked to multiple people (anecdotes are useless) to back up assertions A or B?

So odd the way the op never returns to the threads they create to answer questions and read responses…but another very concerned poster always chimes in to defend missing op and call those answering (missing) op’s questions rude!

Yes, it’s definitely hard to understand this pattern, although it’s easy to see it.

Especially if insulting people on the DCUM religion forum is a major part of your life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How bizarre to think they can speak for all religious people.

100% true.

That statement applies to you also, correct?

Unlike you, I actually know a lot of religious people.

So rather than answer the question, you went right to insults and assumptions?

You may not be aware of this, but you are an unpleasant person.

Now answer the question. That statement applies to you also, right?

Excuse me, but you’re insulting me, calling me unpleasant and twisting my post. Where is the insult in my post?

If you hang out with lots of religious people, by all means say so. That doesn’t seem likely, though.

Which brings us back to: you can’t attribute motives to people you don’t know. Whether that’s the “coolness” of saying you’re spiritual or peoples’ motives for attending church.

The insult is clear, the non-sequitur insinuation that I don’t know any religious people and don’t know what I am talking about. Both are very false.

You did that because you did not want to answer the question, and you still haven’t.

BTW, I am NOT the person you were debating the other points with, just someone reading who wanted to point out the irony.

It’s absolutely germane to ask whether you know religious people. You’re an atheist who is trying to draw broad conclusions about religious people. Calling this a non-sequitur is baffling and an insult in its own right.

Then, instead of responding directly to the post by saying that you do in fact know religious people, you went straight to calling someone “unpleasant”. Pat yourself on the back?

It would be helpful if you could provide some examples, from the religious people you know, about (a) how they only attend because they want community, and (b) they describe themselves as spiritual instead of religious because they know the word religious is uncool. TIA.

Do you even read the posts you respond to?

I repeat: I am not the person making the other claims, just someone who found the post quoted at the top of this one very ironic.

Does that statement apply to you also?

1. I know many Jews and Christians and none of them—not a single one—has said to me that they think the word “religious” is uncool or that they’re

2. I call myself religious.

3. Stop with the insults already, the only person you’re making look bad is yourself. I’ll put my reading comprehension up against yours any day.

OK, your turn AND the turn of the mystery atheist who posted her theories but doesn’t want to answer any questions about them.
A. Why do you think people attend church just for community when they have so many other options, like kids’ schools and sports and their own hobbies?

B. Why do you think religious people think calling themselves that is “uncool.”

C. Have you talked to multiple people (anecdotes are useless) to back up assertions A or B?

So odd the way the op never returns to the threads they create to answer questions and read responses…but another very concerned poster always chimes in to defend missing op and call those answering (missing) op’s questions rude!

Yes, it’s definitely hard to understand this pattern, although it’s easy to see it.

And so easy to see when someone responds to their own post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was intrigued by this question in the other post, but wanted to get away from the guy who thought spiritually was supplanting religion because religion is "uncool."
To answer my own question, I am religious and spiritual. I am a member of a religion and believe that theology. Religion is an organized group thing with defined beliefs. Spirituality is personal and more of a feeling, less defined. I can feel spiritual (close to God or one with God's creation) through prayer (personal or communal), hiking/being in nature, meditating, seeing a beautiful work of art, just enjoying a quiet cup of tea before the rest of my house wakes up, or in many other big and small ways.

^ this makes complete sense, but what do you make of the reply above from someone who said they are religious but not spiritual? If one believes in gods (which all religions have) then believe in the divine and supernatural - which is both religious and spiritual. And if someone believes in the Holy Spirit, that per se is spiritual by definition.

At 01/29/2022 20:14 PP defined "religious but not spiritual" as adhering to religious traditions and practices while also being agnostic, because the traditions are comforting, even if she isn't sure about faith/belief in God/etc. That makes sense to me. I think there are plenty of people who celebrate Christmas and Easter or keep Passover and fast on Yom Kippur because it connects them to their family and the rituals are filled with memories of love and home, even if the spiritual connection to God isn't there for them.

Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays.

This is beautiful. Thank you. Because it is what I hear all the time from acquaintances who shop around for a church that is just right, not too religious, doesn't emphasize God too much, but fits their needs for community and fellowship.

So maybe the religious/spiritual dichotomy is too over-simplistic. What I really see, and read on this forum all the time, are people who want religion-lite, you know, something emphasizing love your fellow man, forgiveness, etc. -- but not the other "heavy stuff" like the virgin birth or bodily ascent to heaven, and they don't agree you need to believe in a certain religious figure to get into heaven.

OP here. The "This is beautiful" comment was a response to me. I'm the one who said "Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays." That's the last comment I made here.

Not sure why there are a handful of people on this thread obsessing over why I'm not responding every 2 seconds. I have a life and thought this question would be an interesting conversation for the board.

As to "cites"/"receipts" I know a lot of people in real life (because I'm a real person with real relationships and not just a message board lurker) who are agnostic about God, but belong to a religious community and consider themselves "religious," because they are active in their community, celebrate holidays, attend services, and fulfill other aspects of their religion without necessarily believing in God. Plus, there have been a couple people on this post who identified as religious agnostics.

FWIW, I am religious, believe in God, and find personal spiritual meaning in religious acts and individual reflection. I'm at services weekly. But I also have friends in my community who are agnostic. They join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals. They might also join/make friends through their kid's school or their own hobbies. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

I have friends who are spiritual but not religious and there are people on this post who have identified as such. They identify as spiritual because they believe in a higher power, but don't believe in any particular organized religion. It has nothing to do with religion being "uncool" and as far as I can tell the poster from the other post making that claim hasn't posted here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was intrigued by this question in the other post, but wanted to get away from the guy who thought spiritually was supplanting religion because religion is "uncool."
To answer my own question, I am religious and spiritual. I am a member of a religion and believe that theology. Religion is an organized group thing with defined beliefs. Spirituality is personal and more of a feeling, less defined. I can feel spiritual (close to God or one with God's creation) through prayer (personal or communal), hiking/being in nature, meditating, seeing a beautiful work of art, just enjoying a quiet cup of tea before the rest of my house wakes up, or in many other big and small ways.

^ this makes complete sense, but what do you make of the reply above from someone who said they are religious but not spiritual? If one believes in gods (which all religions have) then believe in the divine and supernatural - which is both religious and spiritual. And if someone believes in the Holy Spirit, that per se is spiritual by definition.

At 01/29/2022 20:14 PP defined "religious but not spiritual" as adhering to religious traditions and practices while also being agnostic, because the traditions are comforting, even if she isn't sure about faith/belief in God/etc. That makes sense to me. I think there are plenty of people who celebrate Christmas and Easter or keep Passover and fast on Yom Kippur because it connects them to their family and the rituals are filled with memories of love and home, even if the spiritual connection to God isn't there for them.

Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays.

This is beautiful. Thank you. Because it is what I hear all the time from acquaintances who shop around for a church that is just right, not too religious, doesn't emphasize God too much, but fits their needs for community and fellowship.

So maybe the religious/spiritual dichotomy is too over-simplistic. What I really see, and read on this forum all the time, are people who want religion-lite, you know, something emphasizing love your fellow man, forgiveness, etc. -- but not the other "heavy stuff" like the virgin birth or bodily ascent to heaven, and they don't agree you need to believe in a certain religious figure to get into heaven.

OP here. The "This is beautiful" comment was a response to me. I'm the one who said "Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays." That's the last comment I made here.

Not sure why there are a handful of people on this thread obsessing over why I'm not responding every 2 seconds. I have a life and thought this question would be an interesting conversation for the board.

As to "cites"/"receipts" I know a lot of people in real life (because I'm a real person with real relationships and not just a message board lurker) who are agnostic about God, but belong to a religious community and consider themselves "religious," because they are active in their community, celebrate holidays, attend services, and fulfill other aspects of their religion without necessarily believing in God. Plus, there have been a couple people on this post who identified as religious agnostics.

FWIW, I am religious, believe in God, and find personal spiritual meaning in religious acts and individual reflection. I'm at services weekly. But I also have friends in my community who are agnostic. They join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals. They might also join/make friends through their kid's school or their own hobbies. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

I have friends who are spiritual but not religious and there are people on this post who have identified as such. They identify as spiritual because they believe in a higher power, but don't believe in any particular organized religion. It has nothing to do with religion being "uncool" and as far as I can tell the poster from the other post making that claim hasn't posted here.

I'm still skeptical how anyone who doesn't believes the question of whether God exists can't be answered one way or the other (an agnostic) can ever be described as "religious." I know people "join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals" - but those are just agnostics who attend church, they're not really "religious since they don't believe in the supernatural. Anyway, it is a good thread. And I learned a new term "religious agnostics."

[Anonymous]

I first came across the term "spiritual" on dating websites. The guys told me they would check the "spiritual" option to optimize their swipes/dating website activity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was intrigued by this question in the other post, but wanted to get away from the guy who thought spiritually was supplanting religion because religion is "uncool."
To answer my own question, I am religious and spiritual. I am a member of a religion and believe that theology. Religion is an organized group thing with defined beliefs. Spirituality is personal and more of a feeling, less defined. I can feel spiritual (close to God or one with God's creation) through prayer (personal or communal), hiking/being in nature, meditating, seeing a beautiful work of art, just enjoying a quiet cup of tea before the rest of my house wakes up, or in many other big and small ways.

^ this makes complete sense, but what do you make of the reply above from someone who said they are religious but not spiritual? If one believes in gods (which all religions have) then believe in the divine and supernatural - which is both religious and spiritual. And if someone believes in the Holy Spirit, that per se is spiritual by definition.

At 01/29/2022 20:14 PP defined "religious but not spiritual" as adhering to religious traditions and practices while also being agnostic, because the traditions are comforting, even if she isn't sure about faith/belief in God/etc. That makes sense to me. I think there are plenty of people who celebrate Christmas and Easter or keep Passover and fast on Yom Kippur because it connects them to their family and the rituals are filled with memories of love and home, even if the spiritual connection to God isn't there for them.

Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays.

This is beautiful. Thank you. Because it is what I hear all the time from acquaintances who shop around for a church that is just right, not too religious, doesn't emphasize God too much, but fits their needs for community and fellowship.

So maybe the religious/spiritual dichotomy is too over-simplistic. What I really see, and read on this forum all the time, are people who want religion-lite, you know, something emphasizing love your fellow man, forgiveness, etc. -- but not the other "heavy stuff" like the virgin birth or bodily ascent to heaven, and they don't agree you need to believe in a certain religious figure to get into heaven.

OP here. The "This is beautiful" comment was a response to me. I'm the one who said "Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays." That's the last comment I made here.

Not sure why there are a handful of people on this thread obsessing over why I'm not responding every 2 seconds. I have a life and thought this question would be an interesting conversation for the board.

As to "cites"/"receipts" I know a lot of people in real life (because I'm a real person with real relationships and not just a message board lurker) who are agnostic about God, but belong to a religious community and consider themselves "religious," because they are active in their community, celebrate holidays, attend services, and fulfill other aspects of their religion without necessarily believing in God. Plus, there have been a couple people on this post who identified as religious agnostics.

FWIW, I am religious, believe in God, and find personal spiritual meaning in religious acts and individual reflection. I'm at services weekly. But I also have friends in my community who are agnostic. They join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals. They might also join/make friends through their kid's school or their own hobbies. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

I have friends who are spiritual but not religious and there are people on this post who have identified as such. They identify as spiritual because they believe in a higher power, but don't believe in any particular organized religion. It has nothing to do with religion being "uncool" and as far as I can tell the poster from the other post making that claim hasn't posted here.

I'm still skeptical how anyone who doesn't believes the question of whether God exists can't be answered one way or the other (an agnostic) can ever be described as "religious." I know people "join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals" - but those are just agnostics who attend church, they're not really "religious since they don't believe in the supernatural. Anyway, it is a good thread. And I learned a new term "religious agnostics."

OP here. I'm not sure, since I'm not a religious agnostic, but I've known many of them in real life and they don't seem to see it as a contradiction, even if you and I do. They explain it as having a community and sense of belonging through the holidays and rituals that they grew up with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was intrigued by this question in the other post, but wanted to get away from the guy who thought spiritually was supplanting religion because religion is "uncool."
To answer my own question, I am religious and spiritual. I am a member of a religion and believe that theology. Religion is an organized group thing with defined beliefs. Spirituality is personal and more of a feeling, less defined. I can feel spiritual (close to God or one with God's creation) through prayer (personal or communal), hiking/being in nature, meditating, seeing a beautiful work of art, just enjoying a quiet cup of tea before the rest of my house wakes up, or in many other big and small ways.

^ this makes complete sense, but what do you make of the reply above from someone who said they are religious but not spiritual? If one believes in gods (which all religions have) then believe in the divine and supernatural - which is both religious and spiritual. And if someone believes in the Holy Spirit, that per se is spiritual by definition.

At 01/29/2022 20:14 PP defined "religious but not spiritual" as adhering to religious traditions and practices while also being agnostic, because the traditions are comforting, even if she isn't sure about faith/belief in God/etc. That makes sense to me. I think there are plenty of people who celebrate Christmas and Easter or keep Passover and fast on Yom Kippur because it connects them to their family and the rituals are filled with memories of love and home, even if the spiritual connection to God isn't there for them.

Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays.

This is beautiful. Thank you. Because it is what I hear all the time from acquaintances who shop around for a church that is just right, not too religious, doesn't emphasize God too much, but fits their needs for community and fellowship.

So maybe the religious/spiritual dichotomy is too over-simplistic. What I really see, and read on this forum all the time, are people who want religion-lite, you know, something emphasizing love your fellow man, forgiveness, etc. -- but not the other "heavy stuff" like the virgin birth or bodily ascent to heaven, and they don't agree you need to believe in a certain religious figure to get into heaven.

OP here. The "This is beautiful" comment was a response to me. I'm the one who said "Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays." That's the last comment I made here.

Not sure why there are a handful of people on this thread obsessing over why I'm not responding every 2 seconds. I have a life and thought this question would be an interesting conversation for the board.

As to "cites"/"receipts" I know a lot of people in real life (because I'm a real person with real relationships and not just a message board lurker) who are agnostic about God, but belong to a religious community and consider themselves "religious," because they are active in their community, celebrate holidays, attend services, and fulfill other aspects of their religion without necessarily believing in God. Plus, there have been a couple people on this post who identified as religious agnostics.

FWIW, I am religious, believe in God, and find personal spiritual meaning in religious acts and individual reflection. I'm at services weekly. But I also have friends in my community who are agnostic. They join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals. They might also join/make friends through their kid's school or their own hobbies. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

I have friends who are spiritual but not religious and there are people on this post who have identified as such. They identify as spiritual because they believe in a higher power, but don't believe in any particular organized religion. It has nothing to do with religion being "uncool" and as far as I can tell the poster from the other post making that claim hasn't posted here.

I'm still skeptical how anyone who doesn't believes the question of whether God exists can't be answered one way or the other (an agnostic) can ever be described as "religious." I know people "join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals" - but those are just agnostics who attend church, they're not really "religious since they don't believe in the supernatural. Anyway, it is a good thread. And I learned a new term "religious agnostics."

OP here. I'm not sure, since I'm not a religious agnostic, but I've known many of them in real life and they don't seem to see it as a contradiction, even if you and I do. They explain it as having a community and sense of belonging through the holidays and rituals that they grew up with.

There are a lot of them in the Episcopal church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was intrigued by this question in the other post, but wanted to get away from the guy who thought spiritually was supplanting religion because religion is "uncool."
To answer my own question, I am religious and spiritual. I am a member of a religion and believe that theology. Religion is an organized group thing with defined beliefs. Spirituality is personal and more of a feeling, less defined. I can feel spiritual (close to God or one with God's creation) through prayer (personal or communal), hiking/being in nature, meditating, seeing a beautiful work of art, just enjoying a quiet cup of tea before the rest of my house wakes up, or in many other big and small ways.

^ this makes complete sense, but what do you make of the reply above from someone who said they are religious but not spiritual? If one believes in gods (which all religions have) then believe in the divine and supernatural - which is both religious and spiritual. And if someone believes in the Holy Spirit, that per se is spiritual by definition.

At 01/29/2022 20:14 PP defined "religious but not spiritual" as adhering to religious traditions and practices while also being agnostic, because the traditions are comforting, even if she isn't sure about faith/belief in God/etc. That makes sense to me. I think there are plenty of people who celebrate Christmas and Easter or keep Passover and fast on Yom Kippur because it connects them to their family and the rituals are filled with memories of love and home, even if the spiritual connection to God isn't there for them.

Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays.

This is beautiful. Thank you. Because it is what I hear all the time from acquaintances who shop around for a church that is just right, not too religious, doesn't emphasize God too much, but fits their needs for community and fellowship.

So maybe the religious/spiritual dichotomy is too over-simplistic. What I really see, and read on this forum all the time, are people who want religion-lite, you know, something emphasizing love your fellow man, forgiveness, etc. -- but not the other "heavy stuff" like the virgin birth or bodily ascent to heaven, and they don't agree you need to believe in a certain religious figure to get into heaven.

OP here. The "This is beautiful" comment was a response to me. I'm the one who said "Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays." That's the last comment I made here.

Not sure why there are a handful of people on this thread obsessing over why I'm not responding every 2 seconds. I have a life and thought this question would be an interesting conversation for the board.

As to "cites"/"receipts" I know a lot of people in real life (because I'm a real person with real relationships and not just a message board lurker) who are agnostic about God, but belong to a religious community and consider themselves "religious," because they are active in their community, celebrate holidays, attend services, and fulfill other aspects of their religion without necessarily believing in God. Plus, there have been a couple people on this post who identified as religious agnostics.

FWIW, I am religious, believe in God, and find personal spiritual meaning in religious acts and individual reflection. I'm at services weekly. But I also have friends in my community who are agnostic. They join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals. They might also join/make friends through their kid's school or their own hobbies. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

I have friends who are spiritual but not religious and there are people on this post who have identified as such. They identify as spiritual because they believe in a higher power, but don't believe in any particular organized religion. It has nothing to do with religion being "uncool" and as far as I can tell the poster from the other post making that claim hasn't posted here.

I'm still skeptical how anyone who doesn't believes the question of whether God exists can't be answered one way or the other (an agnostic) can ever be described as "religious." I know people "join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals" - but those are just agnostics who attend church, they're not really "religious since they don't believe in the supernatural. Anyway, it is a good thread. And I learned a new term "religious agnostics."

OP here. I'm not sure, since I'm not a religious agnostic, but I've known many of them in real life and they don't seem to see it as a contradiction, even if you and I do. They explain it as having a community and sense of belonging through the holidays and rituals that they grew up with.

There are a lot of them in the Episcopal church.

Cite? Other evidence from your wide-ranging personal experience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was intrigued by this question in the other post, but wanted to get away from the guy who thought spiritually was supplanting religion because religion is "uncool."
To answer my own question, I am religious and spiritual. I am a member of a religion and believe that theology. Religion is an organized group thing with defined beliefs. Spirituality is personal and more of a feeling, less defined. I can feel spiritual (close to God or one with God's creation) through prayer (personal or communal), hiking/being in nature, meditating, seeing a beautiful work of art, just enjoying a quiet cup of tea before the rest of my house wakes up, or in many other big and small ways.

^ this makes complete sense, but what do you make of the reply above from someone who said they are religious but not spiritual? If one believes in gods (which all religions have) then believe in the divine and supernatural - which is both religious and spiritual. And if someone believes in the Holy Spirit, that per se is spiritual by definition.

At 01/29/2022 20:14 PP defined "religious but not spiritual" as adhering to religious traditions and practices while also being agnostic, because the traditions are comforting, even if she isn't sure about faith/belief in God/etc. That makes sense to me. I think there are plenty of people who celebrate Christmas and Easter or keep Passover and fast on Yom Kippur because it connects them to their family and the rituals are filled with memories of love and home, even if the spiritual connection to God isn't there for them.

Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays.

This is beautiful. Thank you. Because it is what I hear all the time from acquaintances who shop around for a church that is just right, not too religious, doesn't emphasize God too much, but fits their needs for community and fellowship.

So maybe the religious/spiritual dichotomy is too over-simplistic. What I really see, and read on this forum all the time, are people who want religion-lite, you know, something emphasizing love your fellow man, forgiveness, etc. -- but not the other "heavy stuff" like the virgin birth or bodily ascent to heaven, and they don't agree you need to believe in a certain religious figure to get into heaven.

OP here. The "This is beautiful" comment was a response to me. I'm the one who said "Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays." That's the last comment I made here.

Not sure why there are a handful of people on this thread obsessing over why I'm not responding every 2 seconds. I have a life and thought this question would be an interesting conversation for the board.

As to "cites"/"receipts" I know a lot of people in real life (because I'm a real person with real relationships and not just a message board lurker) who are agnostic about God, but belong to a religious community and consider themselves "religious," because they are active in their community, celebrate holidays, attend services, and fulfill other aspects of their religion without necessarily believing in God. Plus, there have been a couple people on this post who identified as religious agnostics.

FWIW, I am religious, believe in God, and find personal spiritual meaning in religious acts and individual reflection. I'm at services weekly. But I also have friends in my community who are agnostic. They join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals. They might also join/make friends through their kid's school or their own hobbies. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

I have friends who are spiritual but not religious and there are people on this post who have identified as such. They identify as spiritual because they believe in a higher power, but don't believe in any particular organized religion. It has nothing to do with religion being "uncool" and as far as I can tell the poster from the other post making that claim hasn't posted here.

I'm still skeptical how anyone who doesn't believes the question of whether God exists can't be answered one way or the other (an agnostic) can ever be described as "religious." I know people "join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals" - but those are just agnostics who attend church, they're not really "religious since they don't believe in the supernatural. Anyway, it is a good thread. And I learned a new term "religious agnostics."

OP here. I'm not sure, since I'm not a religious agnostic, but I've known many of them in real life and they don't seem to see it as a contradiction, even if you and I do. They explain it as having a community and sense of belonging through the holidays and rituals that they grew up with.

There are a lot of them in the Episcopal church.

Cite? Other evidence from your wide-ranging personal experience?

OP/DP. What's your problem with personal experience? If it can't be cited from DCUM it doesn't count?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was intrigued by this question in the other post, but wanted to get away from the guy who thought spiritually was supplanting religion because religion is "uncool."
To answer my own question, I am religious and spiritual. I am a member of a religion and believe that theology. Religion is an organized group thing with defined beliefs. Spirituality is personal and more of a feeling, less defined. I can feel spiritual (close to God or one with God's creation) through prayer (personal or communal), hiking/being in nature, meditating, seeing a beautiful work of art, just enjoying a quiet cup of tea before the rest of my house wakes up, or in many other big and small ways.

^ this makes complete sense, but what do you make of the reply above from someone who said they are religious but not spiritual? If one believes in gods (which all religions have) then believe in the divine and supernatural - which is both religious and spiritual. And if someone believes in the Holy Spirit, that per se is spiritual by definition.

At 01/29/2022 20:14 PP defined "religious but not spiritual" as adhering to religious traditions and practices while also being agnostic, because the traditions are comforting, even if she isn't sure about faith/belief in God/etc. That makes sense to me. I think there are plenty of people who celebrate Christmas and Easter or keep Passover and fast on Yom Kippur because it connects them to their family and the rituals are filled with memories of love and home, even if the spiritual connection to God isn't there for them.

Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays.

This is beautiful. Thank you. Because it is what I hear all the time from acquaintances who shop around for a church that is just right, not too religious, doesn't emphasize God too much, but fits their needs for community and fellowship.

So maybe the religious/spiritual dichotomy is too over-simplistic. What I really see, and read on this forum all the time, are people who want religion-lite, you know, something emphasizing love your fellow man, forgiveness, etc. -- but not the other "heavy stuff" like the virgin birth or bodily ascent to heaven, and they don't agree you need to believe in a certain religious figure to get into heaven.

OP here. The "This is beautiful" comment was a response to me. I'm the one who said "Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays." That's the last comment I made here.

Not sure why there are a handful of people on this thread obsessing over why I'm not responding every 2 seconds. I have a life and thought this question would be an interesting conversation for the board.

As to "cites"/"receipts" I know a lot of people in real life (because I'm a real person with real relationships and not just a message board lurker) who are agnostic about God, but belong to a religious community and consider themselves "religious," because they are active in their community, celebrate holidays, attend services, and fulfill other aspects of their religion without necessarily believing in God. Plus, there have been a couple people on this post who identified as religious agnostics.

FWIW, I am religious, believe in God, and find personal spiritual meaning in religious acts and individual reflection. I'm at services weekly. But I also have friends in my community who are agnostic. They join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals. They might also join/make friends through their kid's school or their own hobbies. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

I have friends who are spiritual but not religious and there are people on this post who have identified as such. They identify as spiritual because they believe in a higher power, but don't believe in any particular organized religion. It has nothing to do with religion being "uncool" and as far as I can tell the poster from the other post making that claim hasn't posted here.

I'm still skeptical how anyone who doesn't believes the question of whether God exists can't be answered one way or the other (an agnostic) can ever be described as "religious." I know people "join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals" - but those are just agnostics who attend church, they're not really "religious since they don't believe in the supernatural. Anyway, it is a good thread. And I learned a new term "religious agnostics."

OP here. I'm not sure, since I'm not a religious agnostic, but I've known many of them in real life and they don't seem to see it as a contradiction, even if you and I do. They explain it as having a community and sense of belonging through the holidays and rituals that they grew up with.

There are a lot of them in the Episcopal church.

Cite? Other evidence from your wide-ranging personal experience?

OP/DP. What's your problem with personal experience? If it can't be cited from DCUM it doesn't count?

This was a good thread on this subject awhile back. Many posters discussing ho agnostics (and even atheists go) to church fto be part of a "spiritual community" and such. And numerous posters saying Oh, you don't have to believe in God to be welcome at these churches (Episcopal and Unitarian mostly). So it is a real thing. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/953944.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was intrigued by this question in the other post, but wanted to get away from the guy who thought spiritually was supplanting religion because religion is "uncool."
To answer my own question, I am religious and spiritual. I am a member of a religion and believe that theology. Religion is an organized group thing with defined beliefs. Spirituality is personal and more of a feeling, less defined. I can feel spiritual (close to God or one with God's creation) through prayer (personal or communal), hiking/being in nature, meditating, seeing a beautiful work of art, just enjoying a quiet cup of tea before the rest of my house wakes up, or in many other big and small ways.

^ this makes complete sense, but what do you make of the reply above from someone who said they are religious but not spiritual? If one believes in gods (which all religions have) then believe in the divine and supernatural - which is both religious and spiritual. And if someone believes in the Holy Spirit, that per se is spiritual by definition.

At 01/29/2022 20:14 PP defined "religious but not spiritual" as adhering to religious traditions and practices while also being agnostic, because the traditions are comforting, even if she isn't sure about faith/belief in God/etc. That makes sense to me. I think there are plenty of people who celebrate Christmas and Easter or keep Passover and fast on Yom Kippur because it connects them to their family and the rituals are filled with memories of love and home, even if the spiritual connection to God isn't there for them.

Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays.

This is beautiful. Thank you. Because it is what I hear all the time from acquaintances who shop around for a church that is just right, not too religious, doesn't emphasize God too much, but fits their needs for community and fellowship.

So maybe the religious/spiritual dichotomy is too over-simplistic. What I really see, and read on this forum all the time, are people who want religion-lite, you know, something emphasizing love your fellow man, forgiveness, etc. -- but not the other "heavy stuff" like the virgin birth or bodily ascent to heaven, and they don't agree you need to believe in a certain religious figure to get into heaven.

OP here. The "This is beautiful" comment was a response to me. I'm the one who said "Being religious can still be meaningful by being part of a community that will be there for you, who practice the same rituals and celebrate the same holidays." That's the last comment I made here.

Not sure why there are a handful of people on this thread obsessing over why I'm not responding every 2 seconds. I have a life and thought this question would be an interesting conversation for the board.

As to "cites"/"receipts" I know a lot of people in real life (because I'm a real person with real relationships and not just a message board lurker) who are agnostic about God, but belong to a religious community and consider themselves "religious," because they are active in their community, celebrate holidays, attend services, and fulfill other aspects of their religion without necessarily believing in God. Plus, there have been a couple people on this post who identified as religious agnostics.

FWIW, I am religious, believe in God, and find personal spiritual meaning in religious acts and individual reflection. I'm at services weekly. But I also have friends in my community who are agnostic. They join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals. They might also join/make friends through their kid's school or their own hobbies. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

I have friends who are spiritual but not religious and there are people on this post who have identified as such. They identify as spiritual because they believe in a higher power, but don't believe in any particular organized religion. It has nothing to do with religion being "uncool" and as far as I can tell the poster from the other post making that claim hasn't posted here.

I'm still skeptical how anyone who doesn't believes the question of whether God exists can't be answered one way or the other (an agnostic) can ever be described as "religious." I know people "join religious communities to make friends who have similar values and because they enjoy the rituals" - but those are just agnostics who attend church, they're not really "religious since they don't believe in the supernatural. Anyway, it is a good thread. And I learned a new term "religious agnostics."

OP here. I'm not sure, since I'm not a religious agnostic, but I've known many of them in real life and they don't seem to see it as a contradiction, even if you and I do. They explain it as having a community and sense of belonging through the holidays and rituals that they grew up with.

There are a lot of them in the Episcopal church.

Cite? Other evidence from your wide-ranging personal experience?

OP/DP. What's your problem with personal experience? If it can't be cited from DCUM it doesn't count?

This was a good thread on this subject awhile back. Many posters discussing ho agnostics (and even atheists go) to church fto be part of a "spiritual community" and such. And numerous posters saying Oh, you don't have to believe in God to be welcome at these churches (Episcopal and Unitarian mostly). So it is a real thing. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/953944.page

OP. Thanks for sharing! I'll go check it out!