Spiritual vs Religious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

No, because worship is, per se, religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

I would say dedicating your life to their work would be worship. Saving the planet, teaching children, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, living the commandments,

For prayer I think meditation, moving meditation are equal to a Hail Mary.

God is in everybody, everything.

I’d say “going to church” is not worship if your just sitting there because “you think it will get you to heaven” and prayer is not worship is you are praying for money or material things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

No, because worship is, per se, religious.

Worship is serving god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

I would say dedicating your life to their work would be worship. Saving the planet, teaching children, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, living the commandments,

For prayer I think meditation, moving meditation are equal to a Hail Mary.

God is in everybody, everything.

I’d say “going to church” is not worship if your just sitting there because “you think it will get you to heaven” and prayer is not worship is you are praying for money or material things.

I agree with the bolded, but those things are indicative of practicing "religion." Theism (belief in God) is not "religion." The other stuff you mentioned, like saving the planet etc., can be done by any well-intentioned but non-religious person, even atheists (who by definition are not religious).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

I would say dedicating your life to their work would be worship. Saving the planet, teaching children, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, living the commandments,

For prayer I think meditation, moving meditation are equal to a Hail Mary.

God is in everybody, everything.

I’d say “going to church” is not worship if your just sitting there because “you think it will get you to heaven” and prayer is not worship is you are praying for money or material things.

I agree with the bolded, but those things are indicative of practicing "religion." Theism (belief in God) is not "religion." The other stuff you mentioned, like saving the planet etc., can be done by any well-intentioned but non-religious person, even atheists (who by definition are not religious).

Why are we still trying to convince a handful of readers on DCUM that our definition of “religion” is the only correct one? Particularly if you’re an atheist, this exercise is beyond meaningless to those that actually call themselves “religious” or “spiritual.” And it goes without saying that, with respect to the great world of people outside DCUM who call themselves religious, this is completely pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

I would say dedicating your life to their work would be worship. Saving the planet, teaching children, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, living the commandments,

For prayer I think meditation, moving meditation are equal to a Hail Mary.

God is in everybody, everything.

I’d say “going to church” is not worship if your just sitting there because “you think it will get you to heaven” and prayer is not worship is you are praying for money or material things.

I agree with the bolded, but those things are indicative of practicing "religion." Theism (belief in God) is not "religion." The other stuff you mentioned, like saving the planet etc., can be done by any well-intentioned but non-religious person, even atheists (who by definition are not religious).

Why are we still trying to convince a handful of readers on DCUM that our definition of “religion” is the only correct one? Particularly if you’re an atheist, this exercise is beyond meaningless to those that actually call themselves “religious” or “spiritual.” And it goes without saying that, with respect to the great world of people outside DCUM who call themselves religious, this is completely pointless.

Define "religion", then we can talk. Pointless talking among people who have different definitions for what it means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

I would say dedicating your life to their work would be worship. Saving the planet, teaching children, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, living the commandments,

For prayer I think meditation, moving meditation are equal to a Hail Mary.

God is in everybody, everything.

I’d say “going to church” is not worship if your just sitting there because “you think it will get you to heaven” and prayer is not worship is you are praying for money or material things.

I agree with the bolded, but those things are indicative of practicing "religion." Theism (belief in God) is not "religion." The other stuff you mentioned, like saving the planet etc., can be done by any well-intentioned but non-religious person, even atheists (who by definition are not religious).

Why are we still trying to convince a handful of readers on DCUM that our definition of “religion” is the only correct one? Particularly if you’re an atheist, this exercise is beyond meaningless to those that actually call themselves “religious” or “spiritual.” And it goes without saying that, with respect to the great world of people outside DCUM who call themselves religious, this is completely pointless.

Define "religion", then we can talk. Pointless talking among people who have different definitions for what it means.

Religious = belonging to a religion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

I would say dedicating your life to their work would be worship. Saving the planet, teaching children, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, living the commandments,

For prayer I think meditation, moving meditation are equal to a Hail Mary.

God is in everybody, everything.

I’d say “going to church” is not worship if your just sitting there because “you think it will get you to heaven” and prayer is not worship is you are praying for money or material things.

I agree with the bolded, but those things are indicative of practicing "religion." Theism (belief in God) is not "religion." The other stuff you mentioned, like saving the planet etc., can be done by any well-intentioned but non-religious person, even atheists (who by definition are not religious).

Why are we still trying to convince a handful of readers on DCUM that our definition of “religion” is the only correct one? Particularly if you’re an atheist, this exercise is beyond meaningless to those that actually call themselves “religious” or “spiritual.” And it goes without saying that, with respect to the great world of people outside DCUM who call themselves religious, this is completely pointless.

Define "religion", then we can talk. Pointless talking among people who have different definitions for what it means.

Religious = belonging to a religion

That can't be it. What does "belonging" even mean? Many people say they belong to a certain religion but that's just "checking the box" because they were asked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

I would say dedicating your life to their work would be worship. Saving the planet, teaching children, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, living the commandments,

For prayer I think meditation, moving meditation are equal to a Hail Mary.

God is in everybody, everything.

I’d say “going to church” is not worship if your just sitting there because “you think it will get you to heaven” and prayer is not worship is you are praying for money or material things.

I agree with the bolded, but those things are indicative of practicing "religion." Theism (belief in God) is not "religion." The other stuff you mentioned, like saving the planet etc., can be done by any well-intentioned but non-religious person, even atheists (who by definition are not religious).

Why are we still trying to convince a handful of readers on DCUM that our definition of “religion” is the only correct one? Particularly if you’re an atheist, this exercise is beyond meaningless to those that actually call themselves “religious” or “spiritual.” And it goes without saying that, with respect to the great world of people outside DCUM who call themselves religious, this is completely pointless.

Define "religion", then we can talk. Pointless talking among people who have different definitions for what it means.

Religious = belonging to a religion

That can't be it. What does "belonging" even mean? Many people say they belong to a certain religion but that's just "checking the box" because they were asked.

Well that’s exactly what is wrong with religious people. Check a few boxes and think they are good to go

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

I would say dedicating your life to their work would be worship. Saving the planet, teaching children, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, living the commandments,

For prayer I think meditation, moving meditation are equal to a Hail Mary.

God is in everybody, everything.

I’d say “going to church” is not worship if your just sitting there because “you think it will get you to heaven” and prayer is not worship is you are praying for money or material things.

I agree with the bolded, but those things are indicative of practicing "religion." Theism (belief in God) is not "religion." The other stuff you mentioned, like saving the planet etc., can be done by any well-intentioned but non-religious person, even atheists (who by definition are not religious).

Why are we still trying to convince a handful of readers on DCUM that our definition of “religion” is the only correct one? Particularly if you’re an atheist, this exercise is beyond meaningless to those that actually call themselves “religious” or “spiritual.” And it goes without saying that, with respect to the great world of people outside DCUM who call themselves religious, this is completely pointless.

Define "religion", then we can talk. Pointless talking among people who have different definitions for what it means.

Religious = belonging to a religion

That can't be it. What does "belonging" even mean? Many people say they belong to a certain religion but that's just "checking the box" because they were asked.

Well that’s exactly what is wrong with religious people. Check a few boxes and think they are good to go

Way to indulge your hate in reductive stereotypes. And then you feel like a victim when people dislike atheists (although we know not all atheists are like you).

[Anonymous]

Once and for all, there is nothing wrong with believing in God, but disliking organized religion. Doesn't make anyone less of a believer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

I would say dedicating your life to their work would be worship. Saving the planet, teaching children, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, living the commandments,

For prayer I think meditation, moving meditation are equal to a Hail Mary.

God is in everybody, everything.

I’d say “going to church” is not worship if your just sitting there because “you think it will get you to heaven” and prayer is not worship is you are praying for money or material things.

I agree with the bolded, but those things are indicative of practicing "religion." Theism (belief in God) is not "religion." The other stuff you mentioned, like saving the planet etc., can be done by any well-intentioned but non-religious person, even atheists (who by definition are not religious).

Why are we still trying to convince a handful of readers on DCUM that our definition of “religion” is the only correct one? Particularly if you’re an atheist, this exercise is beyond meaningless to those that actually call themselves “religious” or “spiritual.” And it goes without saying that, with respect to the great world of people outside DCUM who call themselves religious, this is completely pointless.

Define "religion", then we can talk. Pointless talking among people who have different definitions for what it means.

Religious = belonging to a religion

That can't be it. What does "belonging" even mean? Many people say they belong to a certain religion but that's just "checking the box" because they were asked.

Well that’s exactly what is wrong with religious people. Check a few boxes and think they are good to go

Way to indulge your hate in reductive stereotypes. And then you feel like a victim when people dislike atheists (although we know not all atheists are like you).

I'm not an atheist. It's not a stereotype. It's actually part of some religions. "Accept Jesus as your savior" and it doesn't matter how sh*tty a person you are and you will go to heaven. That is actually a "religious" teaching.

If you think that is a stereotype of religious people you really don't understand how many religions there are.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Being spiritual is wanting the benefits of religion without having to do the work

It’s actually the complete opposite. Being spiritual requires that you actually think. To spend time in meditation and/or prayer. To seek. Being religious simply requires you to follow a bunch of man made rules designed specifically to control the masses.

It’s quite interesting how the core content of these “man made rules designed specifically to control the masses” is and has been largely consistent across ages, cultures, societies, geographies, etc., as far as recorded history runs. Almost as if they were inscribed in the human heart like some sort of natural law.

No. Sacred scripture was intentionally distorted to control. Distorted specifically by MEN in power to retain power and wealth. It really is that simple. The natural laws of love, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, and equality are clearly not religious laws. They transcend religious views and scripture. When we begin to wake up from the lies we’ve been conditioned to believe through fear, we see religion for what it is. A lie.

“Religion” actually is a virtue whose purpose is to render God the worship due to Him as the source of all being and the giver of all good things. This virtue gets confused with the systems that develop around the inclination to exercise it.

As for being conditioned through fear, many people exercise the virtue of religion not merely as an expression of what is due in justice to a supreme being but also out of hope for a better life both in the present and in eternity.

The conformance with natural law is itself an expression of the virtue of religion.

Can’t people render God the worship they deserve without religion?

We seriously need an agreed upon definition of religion. My understanding is that it needs two parts: belief in God, but then also some acts in furtherance of that belief like praying, going to church, etc. So the answer to your question, in my opinion, is what do you mean by "worship"?
Worship, it seems to me, fits the definition of religion, i.e. it's more than just having faith or belief in God or belief, so worship definitely suggests to me religion.

I would say dedicating your life to their work would be worship. Saving the planet, teaching children, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, living the commandments,

For prayer I think meditation, moving meditation are equal to a Hail Mary.

God is in everybody, everything.

I’d say “going to church” is not worship if your just sitting there because “you think it will get you to heaven” and prayer is not worship is you are praying for money or material things.

I agree with the bolded, but those things are indicative of practicing "religion." Theism (belief in God) is not "religion." The other stuff you mentioned, like saving the planet etc., can be done by any well-intentioned but non-religious person, even atheists (who by definition are not religious).

Why are we still trying to convince a handful of readers on DCUM that our definition of “religion” is the only correct one? Particularly if you’re an atheist, this exercise is beyond meaningless to those that actually call themselves “religious” or “spiritual.” And it goes without saying that, with respect to the great world of people outside DCUM who call themselves religious, this is completely pointless.

Define "religion", then we can talk. Pointless talking among people who have different definitions for what it means.

Religious = belonging to a religion

That can't be it. What does "belonging" even mean? Many people say they belong to a certain religion but that's just "checking the box" because they were asked.

Well that’s exactly what is wrong with religious people. Check a few boxes and think they are good to go

Way to indulge your hate in reductive stereotypes. And then you feel like a victim when people dislike atheists (although we know not all atheists are like you).

I'm not an atheist. It's not a stereotype. It's actually part of some religions. "Accept Jesus as your savior" and it doesn't matter how sh*tty a person you are and you will go to heaven. That is actually a "religious" teaching.

If you think that is a stereotype of religious people you really don't understand how many religions there are.

You really don’t understand pp’s post where she talked about “religious people” broadly, without singling out certain offenders or excusing the non-dogmatic from her sweeping condemnation.

Are you the minister who only criticizes other Christians and excuses bad behavior from everybody else?

[Anonymous]

I think "religion" is broadly defined but should be up to the individual as to whether or not their beliefs constitute membership in one.

For example, when people say "atheism is a religion" that is wrong if the atheist disagrees (as virtually all will), and when people say "Buddhism is not a religion" that is wrong if the Buddhist in question disagrees.

This is for personal discussions, of course, and not for civic criteria or tax purposes.