POLL: Do you feel pressure to be religious?

[Anonymous]

I was raised Catholic but consider myself agnostic. My Jewish boss seems more into Christmas decor than anyone else in the office.

[Anonymous]

I'm Jewish and also somewhat atheistic (yes, it's possible), and as a previous poster said, omissions are a safety issue sometimes.

I've felt very pressured at my child's elementary school, where the PTA women are rather aggressively Christian and always inviting everyone to Bible study and talking about their churches. They are bullies, and use their religion to band together against anyone they see as less of an upstanding Christian than they believe themselves to be. Rejecting their advances without revealing my personal situation is a little stressful.

I have been forced to participate in Christian traditions a million times over, from having Christian religious symbolism be a part of my school day as a child to having to sit through the moment of silence that is very obviously a Christian prayer moment, to a million and one prayers at the beginnings of otherwise completely secular events, and of course all the dinner time prayers at friends' houses growing up. So awkward.

I mean, what does one do when there is a prayer going on and everyone around you in a crowd is making little prayer hands and muttering to themselves and bowing their heads and you're just standing there, feeling torn between wanting not to stand out and be judged but also not wanting to pretend?

And can we talk about facebook and all the "sending prayers your way" comments? Is it rude to express condolence or support and not mention prayers?

So yes, lots of pressure, lots of omitting.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:1) Have you ever omitted (or even lied) about your true religious beliefs to make a social situation easier? Yes. For a while in middle school I didn't really know which denomination my family was and mistakenly told people I was Catholic (we were Lutheran). In reality, I was agnostic.

2) Has anyone ever insisted that you believe in a certain god or religious figure? I had a friend in high school who was very into her evangelical church and always trying to get other people to go with her to their teen services. They definitely had the goal of getting other kids to be Christian, but tried to pass it off like their teen service was just a party or a concert that just happened to have Christian Rock performers and a pastor.

3) Has anyone ever made you go to a religious service? My mom made us go for a while when I was little. But then she got tired of me and my siblings and my dad complaining about having to go, and she gave up.

4) Has anyone ever made you participate in a religious activity? No.

5) Do you ever feel like an outsider because of your religious beliefs? When I lived in heavily Christian areas in the deep south, sometimes yes. Up north, not very often.

1) Why do you lie about being agnostic?
2) Did you go to her church? How did she insist you believe in God by extending an invitation to her church? Asking you to attend a church youth service is NOT insistence that you believe in God. Having a band at the service is forbidden? Why is that detail so ominous? If your friend said “come to my church friend, we will have a good time, etc,” she was not hiding the location of the event to lie to you.
3) Your mom had a right to take you to church.
4)
5)How did the people I’m the south make you feel like an outsider?

1) I wasn't (intentionally) lying about being agnostic; I just didn't have the words to define myself as such. My family belonged to a church, hence I had a religion. Just not one I believed.
2) I think you're getting a little defensive about this. Growing up mainstream protestant (and not particularly invested in the fact that there were different denominations), I had no concept of how my friend's evangelical church would be so drastically different from my own church. Her description of a party at her church was about how it's a concert for teens and the teen pastor was so cool. Was I naive? Yes, definitely. But I didn't expect a concert to turn into a sermon about converting your friends to evangelicalism and that part struck me as a bait and switch.
3) Of course she had the right to take me to church. But the question was about being forced to go and if I'd had a choice, I wouldn't have gone.
4) No snarky comment?
5) People in the south were incredibly nice and welcoming and interested in helping me find "a church home" which was lovely. But not being religious myself and thus not having or looking for a church home, made me feel like an outsider. It was about being a minority agnostic in a culture where the majority are religious, in contrast to the north, where people don't talk about religion as openly.

Thanks for the complete and non-snarky explanation.

People in the south who are religious are very committed to their faith. I work at a school in the south. 3 churches donated thousands of dollars of food and gifts to the students. They also donated amazing food baskets to the custodians, along with gift cards to a grocery store. They did this for every school in the area. Over 75% of the students at our school have families that live below the poverty line. It was very nice for the families to receive this at Christmas.

I'm glad to hear that Christians can be kind to others, although religion is not needed to be kind. Many non-religious people are kind without any mandate from above and without any expectation of eternal life.

Right. But to do what was done for these kids and families- churches did it. There was great need and it was kindly filled. Words talking about kindness and help are just words. These churches put their money where their mouth is. I really doubt the kids and families who received this help at Christmas are worried about the motivation behind the gifts and food. If these churches would not have stepped up to the plate, nothing, nothing would have been done. And somehow you think religious people can’t be kind? Religion doesn’t force anyone to be kind or giving. In this area good works don’t get you into heaven. It’s through the Blood of Christ only. So these people don’t even think they have to do such things to get to heaven. They are already saved and heaven bound. They just like helping people.

Some people are like that - saved or not. And who said religious people can't be kind -- no one. And no one should expect to be praised for helping people in need.

Those churches aren’t asking for praise.

You don't know that. They certainly are expecting that their good works will help land them a spot in heaven. Meanwhile, non-Christians are kind because it's human nature. Christians, too, but they are taught to give Jesus the credit and believe that their good deeds will reap eternal rewards.

Show evidence the churches are asking for praise? Where is your evidence for that claim?

For the record: not one dollar of help, not one food item for a needy family, not one gift was given to the over 400 students from anyone but the churches. Where is all this non-Christian, authentic charity and help you are crowing about? Because I didn’t see one jot of it.

I'm a teacher, and that's BS. I'm also a parent and call BS again for my child's school. As a teacher I personally donated more to kids in our school than anyone else, and I'm not a Christian. Moreover, at my child's school the "Christian" PTA ladies voted down every single request to help needy students, from scholarships to lunch money. We do have one church that donates a lot of stuff to families at the school, but they receive donations from the community at large and not just from Christian members - I'm pretty sure I am a top donor to them, and I certainly hope my charity is not helping to promote the myth that all these things are coming only from Christians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish and also somewhat atheistic (yes, it's possible), and as a previous poster said, omissions are a safety issue sometimes.

I've felt very pressured at my child's elementary school, where the PTA women are rather aggressively Christian and always inviting everyone to Bible study and talking about their churches. They are bullies, and use their religion to band together against anyone they see as less of an upstanding Christian than they believe themselves to be. Rejecting their advances without revealing my personal situation is a little stressful.

I have been forced to participate in Christian traditions a million times over, from having Christian religious symbolism be a part of my school day as a child to having to sit through the moment of silence that is very obviously a Christian prayer moment, to a million and one prayers at the beginnings of otherwise completely secular events, and of course all the dinner time prayers at friends' houses growing up. So awkward.

I mean, what does one do when there is a prayer going on and everyone around you in a crowd is making little prayer hands and muttering to themselves and bowing their heads and you're just standing there, feeling torn between wanting not to stand out and be judged but also not wanting to pretend?

And can we talk about facebook and all the "sending prayers your way" comments? Is it rude to express condolence or support and not mention prayers?

So yes, lots of pressure, lots of omitting.

Yes, lots of pressure in so many little (and big) ways.

The head bowing thing is always so awkward. I usually just look around to see who’s actually bowing and wink.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) Have you ever omitted (or even lied) about your true religious beliefs to make a social situation easier? Yes. For a while in middle school I didn't really know which denomination my family was and mistakenly told people I was Catholic (we were Lutheran). In reality, I was agnostic.

2) Has anyone ever insisted that you believe in a certain god or religious figure? I had a friend in high school who was very into her evangelical church and always trying to get other people to go with her to their teen services. They definitely had the goal of getting other kids to be Christian, but tried to pass it off like their teen service was just a party or a concert that just happened to have Christian Rock performers and a pastor.

3) Has anyone ever made you go to a religious service? My mom made us go for a while when I was little. But then she got tired of me and my siblings and my dad complaining about having to go, and she gave up.

4) Has anyone ever made you participate in a religious activity? No.

5) Do you ever feel like an outsider because of your religious beliefs? When I lived in heavily Christian areas in the deep south, sometimes yes. Up north, not very often.

1) Why do you lie about being agnostic?
2) Did you go to her church? How did she insist you believe in God by extending an invitation to her church? Asking you to attend a church youth service is NOT insistence that you believe in God. Having a band at the service is forbidden? Why is that detail so ominous? If your friend said “come to my church friend, we will have a good time, etc,” she was not hiding the location of the event to lie to you.
3) Your mom had a right to take you to church.
4)
5)How did the people I’m the south make you feel like an outsider?

1) I wasn't (intentionally) lying about being agnostic; I just didn't have the words to define myself as such. My family belonged to a church, hence I had a religion. Just not one I believed.
2) I think you're getting a little defensive about this. Growing up mainstream protestant (and not particularly invested in the fact that there were different denominations), I had no concept of how my friend's evangelical church would be so drastically different from my own church. Her description of a party at her church was about how it's a concert for teens and the teen pastor was so cool. Was I naive? Yes, definitely. But I didn't expect a concert to turn into a sermon about converting your friends to evangelicalism and that part struck me as a bait and switch.
3) Of course she had the right to take me to church. But the question was about being forced to go and if I'd had a choice, I wouldn't have gone.
4) No snarky comment?
5) People in the south were incredibly nice and welcoming and interested in helping me find "a church home" which was lovely. But not being religious myself and thus not having or looking for a church home, made me feel like an outsider. It was about being a minority agnostic in a culture where the majority are religious, in contrast to the north, where people don't talk about religion as openly.

Thanks for the complete and non-snarky explanation.

People in the south who are religious are very committed to their faith. I work at a school in the south. 3 churches donated thousands of dollars of food and gifts to the students. They also donated amazing food baskets to the custodians, along with gift cards to a grocery store. They did this for every school in the area. Over 75% of the students at our school have families that live below the poverty line. It was very nice for the families to receive this at Christmas.

I'm glad to hear that Christians can be kind to others, although religion is not needed to be kind. Many non-religious people are kind without any mandate from above and without any expectation of eternal life.

Right. But to do what was done for these kids and families- churches did it. There was great need and it was kindly filled. Words talking about kindness and help are just words. These churches put their money where their mouth is. I really doubt the kids and families who received this help at Christmas are worried about the motivation behind the gifts and food. If these churches would not have stepped up to the plate, nothing, nothing would have been done. And somehow you think religious people can’t be kind? Religion doesn’t force anyone to be kind or giving. In this area good works don’t get you into heaven. It’s through the Blood of Christ only. So these people don’t even think they have to do such things to get to heaven. They are already saved and heaven bound. They just like helping people.

Some people are like that - saved or not. And who said religious people can't be kind -- no one. And no one should expect to be praised for helping people in need.

Those churches aren’t asking for praise.

You don't know that. They certainly are expecting that their good works will help land them a spot in heaven. Meanwhile, non-Christians are kind because it's human nature. Christians, too, but they are taught to give Jesus the credit and believe that their good deeds will reap eternal rewards.

Show evidence the churches are asking for praise? Where is your evidence for that claim?

For the record: not one dollar of help, not one food item for a needy family, not one gift was given to the over 400 students from anyone but the churches. Where is all this non-Christian, authentic charity and help you are crowing about? Because I didn’t see one jot of it.

I'm a teacher, and that's BS. I'm also a parent and call BS again for my child's school. As a teacher I personally donated more to kids in our school than anyone else, and I'm not a Christian. Moreover, at my child's school the "Christian" PTA ladies voted down every single request to help needy students, from scholarships to lunch money. We do have one church that donates a lot of stuff to families at the school, but they receive donations from the community at large and not just from Christian members - I'm pretty sure I am a top donor to them, and I certainly hope my charity is not helping to promote the myth that all these things are coming only from Christians.

Yes, one of the big donors for our PTA is a Catholic (and lets everyone know it *and* how much they donate) and when we were voting to donate to a poorer school this person basically said they were strongly opposed to supporting any school aside from our own (wealthy) school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) Have you ever omitted (or even lied) about your true religious beliefs to make a social situation easier? Yes. For a while in middle school I didn't really know which denomination my family was and mistakenly told people I was Catholic (we were Lutheran). In reality, I was agnostic.

2) Has anyone ever insisted that you believe in a certain god or religious figure? I had a friend in high school who was very into her evangelical church and always trying to get other people to go with her to their teen services. They definitely had the goal of getting other kids to be Christian, but tried to pass it off like their teen service was just a party or a concert that just happened to have Christian Rock performers and a pastor.

3) Has anyone ever made you go to a religious service? My mom made us go for a while when I was little. But then she got tired of me and my siblings and my dad complaining about having to go, and she gave up.

4) Has anyone ever made you participate in a religious activity? No.

5) Do you ever feel like an outsider because of your religious beliefs? When I lived in heavily Christian areas in the deep south, sometimes yes. Up north, not very often.

1) Why do you lie about being agnostic?
2) Did you go to her church? How did she insist you believe in God by extending an invitation to her church? Asking you to attend a church youth service is NOT insistence that you believe in God. Having a band at the service is forbidden? Why is that detail so ominous? If your friend said “come to my church friend, we will have a good time, etc,” she was not hiding the location of the event to lie to you.
3) Your mom had a right to take you to church.
4)
5)How did the people I’m the south make you feel like an outsider?

1) I wasn't (intentionally) lying about being agnostic; I just didn't have the words to define myself as such. My family belonged to a church, hence I had a religion. Just not one I believed.
2) I think you're getting a little defensive about this. Growing up mainstream protestant (and not particularly invested in the fact that there were different denominations), I had no concept of how my friend's evangelical church would be so drastically different from my own church. Her description of a party at her church was about how it's a concert for teens and the teen pastor was so cool. Was I naive? Yes, definitely. But I didn't expect a concert to turn into a sermon about converting your friends to evangelicalism and that part struck me as a bait and switch.
3) Of course she had the right to take me to church. But the question was about being forced to go and if I'd had a choice, I wouldn't have gone.
4) No snarky comment?
5) People in the south were incredibly nice and welcoming and interested in helping me find "a church home" which was lovely. But not being religious myself and thus not having or looking for a church home, made me feel like an outsider. It was about being a minority agnostic in a culture where the majority are religious, in contrast to the north, where people don't talk about religion as openly.

Thanks for the complete and non-snarky explanation.

People in the south who are religious are very committed to their faith. I work at a school in the south. 3 churches donated thousands of dollars of food and gifts to the students. They also donated amazing food baskets to the custodians, along with gift cards to a grocery store. They did this for every school in the area. Over 75% of the students at our school have families that live below the poverty line. It was very nice for the families to receive this at Christmas.

I'm glad to hear that Christians can be kind to others, although religion is not needed to be kind. Many non-religious people are kind without any mandate from above and without any expectation of eternal life.

Right. But to do what was done for these kids and families- churches did it. There was great need and it was kindly filled. Words talking about kindness and help are just words. These churches put their money where their mouth is. I really doubt the kids and families who received this help at Christmas are worried about the motivation behind the gifts and food. If these churches would not have stepped up to the plate, nothing, nothing would have been done. And somehow you think religious people can’t be kind? Religion doesn’t force anyone to be kind or giving. In this area good works don’t get you into heaven. It’s through the Blood of Christ only. So these people don’t even think they have to do such things to get to heaven. They are already saved and heaven bound. They just like helping people.

Some people are like that - saved or not. And who said religious people can't be kind -- no one. And no one should expect to be praised for helping people in need.

Those churches aren’t asking for praise.

You don't know that. They certainly are expecting that their good works will help land them a spot in heaven. Meanwhile, non-Christians are kind because it's human nature. Christians, too, but they are taught to give Jesus the credit and believe that their good deeds will reap eternal rewards.

Show evidence the churches are asking for praise? Where is your evidence for that claim?

For the record: not one dollar of help, not one food item for a needy family, not one gift was given to the over 400 students from anyone but the churches. Where is all this non-Christian, authentic charity and help you are crowing about? Because I didn’t see one jot of it.

I'm a teacher, and that's BS. I'm also a parent and call BS again for my child's school. As a teacher I personally donated more to kids in our school than anyone else, and I'm not a Christian. Moreover, at my child's school the "Christian" PTA ladies voted down every single request to help needy students, from scholarships to lunch money. We do have one church that donates a lot of stuff to families at the school, but they receive donations from the community at large and not just from Christian members - I'm pretty sure I am a top donor to them, and I certainly hope my charity is not helping to promote the myth that all these things are coming only from Christians.

Why are you calling bs on a school Christmas donation program involving multiple churches you know nothing about? This is not a program that donates to a single school. This program donates food, gift cards and gifts to thousands of children and families and janitorial staff to every school in two large counties.

Does your school not have a free (federally funded) free breakfast and lunch program? Why would the PTA be “voting” on helping students with lunch money?

You must be independently wealthy as a teacher to donate enough money to fund gifts, gift cards, and food help to thousands of families in every school in 2 counties.

Also, how do you know what others are donating? Your teacher salary allows you to donate thousands of dollars?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish and also somewhat atheistic (yes, it's possible), and as a previous poster said, omissions are a safety issue sometimes.

I've felt very pressured at my child's elementary school, where the PTA women are rather aggressively Christian and always inviting everyone to Bible study and talking about their churches. They are bullies, and use their religion to band together against anyone they see as less of an upstanding Christian than they believe themselves to be. Rejecting their advances without revealing my personal situation is a little stressful.

I have been forced to participate in Christian traditions a million times over, from having Christian religious symbolism be a part of my school day as a child to having to sit through the moment of silence that is very obviously a Christian prayer moment, to a million and one prayers at the beginnings of otherwise completely secular events, and of course all the dinner time prayers at friends' houses growing up. So awkward.

I mean, what does one do when there is a prayer going on and everyone around you in a crowd is making little prayer hands and muttering to themselves and bowing their heads and you're just standing there, feeling torn between wanting not to stand out and be judged but also not wanting to pretend?

And can we talk about facebook and all the "sending prayers your way" comments? Is it rude to express condolence or support and not mention prayers?

So yes, lots of pressure, lots of omitting.

I am surprised by the PTA, I never got that involved so I cannot comment on that

I do not remember moments of silence, that sounds like a strange custom, but I think it would be helpful for the kids in our modern age

[Anonymous]

Oh yeah. The moment of silence at schools. And religious pledge of allegiance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah. The moment of silence at schools. And religious pledge of allegiance.

If that is it, then you have lived a good life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah. The moment of silence at schools. And religious pledge of allegiance.

If that is it, then you have lived a good life

A daily reminder at the start of every single school day for years that you are an outsider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah. The moment of silence at schools. And religious pledge of allegiance.

If that is it, then you have lived a good life

A daily reminder at the start of every single school day for years that you are an outsider.

That sounds more like your own choice
Plenty of people at the moment of silence or pledge do not care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah. The moment of silence at schools. And religious pledge of allegiance.

If that is it, then you have lived a good life

A daily reminder at the start of every single school day for years that you are an outsider.

Or that everyone is an individual

[Anonymous]

Hindu. I’ve been more or less atheist my whole life but consider myself Hindu culturally. Felt pressure toarry someone Hindu but didn’t. Raising my kids as neither.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was raised Catholic but consider myself agnostic. My Jewish boss seems more into Christmas decor than anyone else in the office.

Maybe it's because Christmas tchotchkes are so kitschy.

[Anonymous]

I don't know if you'd call it pressure, but when an acquaintance experiences a tragedy, health issue, etc (esp if they are religious), "we're praying for you" sounds nice and "you're in our thoughts" feels lame.

I can't really bring myself to say "praying" if I'm definitely not doing it, though