What's worse -- no "optional" essay or a bad "optional" essay?

[Anonymous]

Also if more selective, maybe they have to give less merit aid… you get the idea. Deans of admissions want to have low acceptance rates. That is what I meant.

[Anonymous]

Completing the extra essay is a form of showing demonstrated interest. Any essay (that is not offensive) is better than no essay. Offer some specifics on what you think is lacking and how it might be improved. Then let it go. It's your kid's essay and your kid's life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

How does not requiring an additional essay "game their rankings"?

Anything that an admissions committee does to reduce the barrier to applying, potentially "games their rankings" because more kids apply and the admission rate drops by that alone. Eliminating application fees, going test optional, joining common app, reducing requirements (such as essays) have all increased many schools applicant pool -- lots of data proves this. It is a cynical interpretation for sure, but I think that is what previous poster means.

I know that's what the PP meant.

It also means they are wrong, as are you.

Admission rate is not used in USN calculations. So simply getting more applicants has no effect on ranking. None.

What it does is get applicants who not might otherwise apply, particularly higher-stats students looking for another match/safety. it has nothing to do with rankings.

I didn’t mean rankings so literally - I believe there is a hot college phenomenon: if acceptances rates go down all the sudden a school some would have considered mediocre gets a second look. Also, if it gets higher stats kids to apply or a wider range of kids or whatever - that can eventually move schools up actual rankings (while also adding to the hot college phenomenon too: suddenly it makes a school seem much more palatable and exciting if you get in).

I am sorry, I do not believe you.

"Gaming the rankings" is a phrase with a specific meaning. You were wrong and you know it.

Now you move the goalposts to "they just want more and better applicants" which I agree with, but that is in no way "gaming the rankings", it is just doing the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

How does not requiring an additional essay "game their rankings"?

Anything that an admissions committee does to reduce the barrier to applying, potentially "games their rankings" because more kids apply and the admission rate drops by that alone. Eliminating application fees, going test optional, joining common app, reducing requirements (such as essays) have all increased many schools applicant pool -- lots of data proves this. It is a cynical interpretation for sure, but I think that is what previous poster means.

I know that's what the PP meant.

It also means they are wrong, as are you.

Admission rate is not used in USN calculations. So simply getting more applicants has no effect on ranking. None.

What it does is get applicants who not might otherwise apply, particularly higher-stats students looking for another match/safety. it has nothing to do with rankings.

I didn’t mean rankings so literally - I believe there is a hot college phenomenon: if acceptances rates go down all the sudden a school some would have considered mediocre gets a second look. Also, if it gets higher stats kids to apply or a wider range of kids or whatever - that can eventually move schools up actual rankings (while also adding to the hot college phenomenon too: suddenly it makes a school seem much more palatable and exciting if you get in).

I am sorry, I do not believe you.

"Gaming the rankings" is a phrase with a specific meaning. You were wrong and you know it.

Now you move the goalposts to "they just want more and better applicants" which I agree with, but that is in no way "gaming the rankings", it is just doing the job.

Um, does it matter? I thought we were engaging in a discussion about why admissions may drop the essay requirement, so I stand by my post. It is to make the school more sought after, which is a ranking if you ask me — but this argument doesn’t feel worth the time for either of us. This was a side conversation to the initial thread - don’t mean to get the post off track or engage in some argument I didn’t realize I had picked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

How does not requiring an additional essay "game their rankings"?

Anything that an admissions committee does to reduce the barrier to applying, potentially "games their rankings" because more kids apply and the admission rate drops by that alone. Eliminating application fees, going test optional, joining common app, reducing requirements (such as essays) have all increased many schools applicant pool -- lots of data proves this. It is a cynical interpretation for sure, but I think that is what previous poster means.

I know that's what the PP meant.

It also means they are wrong, as are you.

Admission rate is not used in USN calculations. So simply getting more applicants has no effect on ranking. None.

What it does is get applicants who not might otherwise apply, particularly higher-stats students looking for another match/safety. it has nothing to do with rankings.

I didn’t mean rankings so literally - I believe there is a hot college phenomenon: if acceptances rates go down all the sudden a school some would have considered mediocre gets a second look. Also, if it gets higher stats kids to apply or a wider range of kids or whatever - that can eventually move schools up actual rankings (while also adding to the hot college phenomenon too: suddenly it makes a school seem much more palatable and exciting if you get in).

I am sorry, I do not believe you.

"Gaming the rankings" is a phrase with a specific meaning. You were wrong and you know it.

Now you move the goalposts to "they just want more and better applicants" which I agree with, but that is in no way "gaming the rankings", it is just doing the job.

NP yo PP, you’re picking a fight where there isn’t one and it is derailing the thread. Go pick your nose instead.

[Anonymous]

"OP, just a head's up that I got into my top choice schools with an essay my parents thought was bad but I thought was okay. I refused to change it because I liked what I'd written. Apparently it was good enough for the admissions department. If you want to give your daughter feedback on *why* you think it's bad (too purple? too boring?) it's on her to fix it, but just saying "you need to try harder" when she thinks it's good is a bit ridiculous. And her submitting something you think is bad is definitely not necessary the end of the world."

Usually, when someone makes this point, it turns out their "top choice school" was a place like Michigan State. It's neither selective nor does it place much, if any, emphasis on the essay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

How does not requiring an additional essay "game their rankings"?

Anything that an admissions committee does to reduce the barrier to applying, potentially "games their rankings" because more kids apply and the admission rate drops by that alone. Eliminating application fees, going test optional, joining common app, reducing requirements (such as essays) have all increased many schools applicant pool -- lots of data proves this. It is a cynical interpretation for sure, but I think that is what previous poster means.

I know that's what the PP meant.

It also means they are wrong, as are you.

Admission rate is not used in USN calculations. So simply getting more applicants has no effect on ranking. None.

What it does is get applicants who not might otherwise apply, particularly higher-stats students looking for another match/safety. it has nothing to do with rankings.

I didn’t mean rankings so literally - I believe there is a hot college phenomenon: if acceptances rates go down all the sudden a school some would have considered mediocre gets a second look. Also, if it gets higher stats kids to apply or a wider range of kids or whatever - that can eventually move schools up actual rankings (while also adding to the hot college phenomenon too: suddenly it makes a school seem much more palatable and exciting if you get in).

I am sorry, I do not believe you.

"Gaming the rankings" is a phrase with a specific meaning. You were wrong and you know it.

Now you move the goalposts to "they just want more and better applicants" which I agree with, but that is in no way "gaming the rankings", it is just doing the job.

Um, does it matter? I thought we were engaging in a discussion about why admissions may drop the essay requirement, so I stand by my post. It is to make the school more sought after, which is a ranking if you ask me — but this argument doesn’t feel worth the time for either of us. This was a side conversation to the initial thread - don’t mean to get the post off track or engage in some argument I didn’t realize I had picked.

Yes, it matters, because what you typed feeds into the tinfoil hat mythology that schools are scheming and "gaming" things and do not care about how it affects the applicants. The opposite of the truth. This discourages people going through an already difficult process without misinformation from the uninformed or those with an agenda. I don't know which category your first post falls in.

If you don't feel it it is worth the time, then don't post, or at a minimum, do some homework and choose your words more thoughtfully.

[Anonymous]

"And yet it is NOT a test, in any way, nor is it presented as one, nor is any test-like guidance given about it, which would be simple to do if the colleges wanted it to be treated as a test.

Adcoms believe strongly they can tell when a student has not written the essay. Is it true? Dunno, but they say it is.

There is no world, in academia, business, or publishing, when getting help or guidance on something you have written is disallowed - in fact it is de rigueur. Having someone write it for you, or plagiarism is 100% different."



THIS!!!

No Adcom ever said that students shouldn't get input on their essays. It's not a test of their writing skills under proctored testing conditions. That's what the SAT essay section is for.

You know how an Adcom could tell if an adult wrote it? If they made references to things that no HS kid in 2021 would recognize, like discussing whether Charlie liked the blonde angel more than the brunettes. Another marker would be if you put two spaces after each period.

So long as you had the student review it to make sure it makes sense to them and sounds like their true voice, there's no way that any Adcom would know the student didn't write it from scratch.

And all of the people who say that no teen could write the model essays you see, you're just plain wrong. I went to a T5 and lots of my classmates could and did write essays like that. And no, the people who can create these beautiful essays aren't necessarily getting all As in their English classes. Most high schools don't teach this form of writing so there would be no way for a teacher to know that the student has this skill and have their grade reflect it.