What's worse -- no "optional" essay or a bad "optional" essay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

How does not requiring an additional essay "game their rankings"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

How does not requiring an additional essay "game their rankings"?

Anything that an admissions committee does to reduce the barrier to applying, potentially "games their rankings" because more kids apply and the admission rate drops by that alone. Eliminating application fees, going test optional, joining common app, reducing requirements (such as essays) have all increased many schools applicant pool -- lots of data proves this. It is a cynical interpretation for sure, but I think that is what previous poster means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't believe how many of you have not taught kids that their decisions have consequences. And that they will have to live with those consequences (be it an HIV infection, drunk driving crash, etc). In a matter of months they will be on their own.

You are DEFINITELY not serving them well.

I know you mean well, but this is not a good way to parent.

Eh. I understand your point however my kids ended writing 30 PAGES worth of essays and short answers between the applications and honors college applications. I would also need to bargain with myself to get that accomplished. It doesn’t mean I suck or am generally irresponsible.

I hope if you’re making these comments you have recently done the college process with your kids. If you're the parent of littles or commenting based on the process years ago, you really can’t understand.

DP. One of my kids applied last year and one applied four years ago. I don't think of doing it "with" my kids because it was their work. I handed over my credit card. I offered to hire a college counselor, but they both passed. And they got into places they were excited to attend and where they are currently happy.

You get to make a particular point with your kid once, and then you need to shut up, or possibly rant to your friends/spouse about how this is making you nuts. But LAND THE CHOPPER.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

No supplemental essay at Case Western, but guessing you wouldn't consider CWRU prestigious. And I do thing they are trying to improve their rankings.

[Anonymous]

Was surprised there’s none for Wesleyan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

How does not requiring an additional essay "game their rankings"?

Anything that an admissions committee does to reduce the barrier to applying, potentially "games their rankings" because more kids apply and the admission rate drops by that alone. Eliminating application fees, going test optional, joining common app, reducing requirements (such as essays) have all increased many schools applicant pool -- lots of data proves this. It is a cynical interpretation for sure, but I think that is what previous poster means.

I know that's what the PP meant.

It also means they are wrong, as are you.

Admission rate is not used in USN calculations. So simply getting more applicants has no effect on ranking. None.

What it does is get applicants who not might otherwise apply, particularly higher-stats students looking for another match/safety. it has nothing to do with rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't believe how many of you have not taught kids that their decisions have consequences. And that they will have to live with those consequences (be it an HIV infection, drunk driving crash, etc). In a matter of months they will be on their own.

You are DEFINITELY not serving them well.

I know you mean well, but this is not a good way to parent.

Eh. I understand your point however my kids ended writing 30 PAGES worth of essays and short answers between the applications and honors college applications. I would also need to bargain with myself to get that accomplished. It doesn’t mean I suck or am generally irresponsible.

I hope if you’re making these comments you have recently done the college process with your kids. If you're the parent of littles or commenting based on the process years ago, you really can’t understand.

DP. One of my kids applied last year and one applied four years ago. I don't think of doing it "with" my kids because it was their work. I handed over my credit card. I offered to hire a college counselor, but they both passed. And they got into places they were excited to attend and where they are currently happy.

You get to make a particular point with your kid once, and then you need to shut up, or possibly rant to your friends/spouse about how this is making you nuts. But LAND THE CHOPPER.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

How does not requiring an additional essay "game their rankings"?

Anything that an admissions committee does to reduce the barrier to applying, potentially "games their rankings" because more kids apply and the admission rate drops by that alone. Eliminating application fees, going test optional, joining common app, reducing requirements (such as essays) have all increased many schools applicant pool -- lots of data proves this. It is a cynical interpretation for sure, but I think that is what previous poster means.

my kid only applied to Northeastern this year because no fee and no essay. would not have applied otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

Williams

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Revise it and don’t give it a second thought. Everyone else is doing this.

This is so true! And hiring people to "help" kids write their essays. Nina Marks, outside college counselor has TWO full-time people on staff that do this.

Absolutely untrue that everyone is doing this.

To me it is exactly analogous to cheating on a test.

Do you teach your kids that they should not cheat…unless it is a high stakes test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Revise it and don’t give it a second thought. Everyone else is doing this.

This is so true! And hiring people to "help" kids write their essays. Nina Marks, outside college counselor has TWO full-time people on staff that do this.

Absolutely untrue that everyone is doing this.

To me it is exactly analogous to cheating on a test.

Do you teach your kids that they should not cheat…unless it is a high stakes test?

And yet it is NOT a test, in any way, nor is it presented as one, nor is any test-like guidance given about it, which would be simple to do if the colleges wanted it to be treated as a test.

Adcoms believe strongly they can tell when a student has not written the essay. Is it true? Dunno, but they say it is.

There is no world, in academia, business, or publishing, when getting help or guidance on something you have written is disallowed - in fact it is de rigueur. Having someone write it for you, or plagiarism is 100% different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

How does not requiring an additional essay "game their rankings"?

Anything that an admissions committee does to reduce the barrier to applying, potentially "games their rankings" because more kids apply and the admission rate drops by that alone. Eliminating application fees, going test optional, joining common app, reducing requirements (such as essays) have all increased many schools applicant pool -- lots of data proves this. It is a cynical interpretation for sure, but I think that is what previous poster means.

This. Then add in when the schools send targeted emails to students asking them to apply, telling them that they will waive fees and give them a decision in under two weeks (I'm looking at you, Case Western and Pitt) with the intent of boosting the number of applications. Likely with very little intention of admitting the majority of the people they target with those emails, judging by the stats of many who receive them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid didn’t do any optional essays or “why X” essays for college or grad school. Accepted to 2 pretty significant reach schools for undergrad (and 6 of 7 colleges applied to) and also got into a few top 10 grad programs with same “no extra BS” approach. To be honest, more surprised about the undergrad outcome than the grad outcome which included even more prestigious schools.

How many years ago was this, if they're already into grad school? At some point, if your kid's experience was pre-COVID, it's about as relevant as my experiences in the 1990s.

+1 I can’t think of any prestigious college that doesn’t have a supplemental essay. Flippin Georgetown doesnt even take the common app, they have their own application altogether. I can only think of Northeastern in the top 50ish that doesn’t require an essay? And it’s obvious that they’ve chosen that route to game their rankings.

How does not requiring an additional essay "game their rankings"?

Anything that an admissions committee does to reduce the barrier to applying, potentially "games their rankings" because more kids apply and the admission rate drops by that alone. Eliminating application fees, going test optional, joining common app, reducing requirements (such as essays) have all increased many schools applicant pool -- lots of data proves this. It is a cynical interpretation for sure, but I think that is what previous poster means.

I know that's what the PP meant.

It also means they are wrong, as are you.

Admission rate is not used in USN calculations. So simply getting more applicants has no effect on ranking. None.

What it does is get applicants who not might otherwise apply, particularly higher-stats students looking for another match/safety. it has nothing to do with rankings.

I didn’t mean rankings so literally - I believe there is a hot college phenomenon: if acceptances rates go down all the sudden a school some would have considered mediocre gets a second look. Also, if it gets higher stats kids to apply or a wider range of kids or whatever - that can eventually move schools up actual rankings (while also adding to the hot college phenomenon too: suddenly it makes a school seem much more palatable and exciting if you get in).